TM2012: Scummies 2011.5 - Let the credits roll!

[DeasVail]

So, um, I think I made it clear that I forgot to vote for someone to receive a scummy. I was planning to vote T-Bone but I wasn't decided and I don't know why I didn't. I just completely forgot about it.

I don't know. Ajax was my strongest scumread throughout day 1, but I was always questioning (in my mind anyway) whether he was really scum like people thought he was. I don't know whether or not this was evident in my posting.

I think reconsidering means going over someone's posts again...

[DeasVail]

I am still deciding between Zar and Reck for my vote today, and I'm having trouble.

MoI:

Thoughts on Molla?

[DeasVail]

Going through ISOs again. Taking down what seems notable.

Zar

92 is a bit of a mixed bag for me. On one hand I think that it could be indicative of Zar trying too hard to display "town" thought processes. On the other, I think it's the kind of buddying that scum may avoid.

Zar doesn't hammer in 340. I think it reasonably likely he would as scum there.

There's still that including himself in analysis thing.

Eh. Ok. He's scummy, but I do think that his scumhunting and team involvement do appear genuine, and this makes him somewhat likely to be town I think. I'll probably be voting Reck, but I'll go over his ISO, and may try to make an attempt at some kind of case?

Ugh. I can't come up with a good-sounding case. Maybe later.

But, I'm just going to

Vote: Reck

It's probably based on stuff I've already said about him.

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 4, Votecount 7

Zar (2) - xRECKONERx, BBmolla
DeasVail (1) - MagnaofIllusion
xRECKONERx (1) - DeasVail

Not voting (3) - Zar, T-Bone, theamatuer

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch or no-lynch.

Deadline:

June 23rd at 7:00 PM (EDT)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-06-23 19:00:00)

Both Faraday and Mina will be V/LA until June 25th due to Scummer of Love. We'll still check in at least once a day to post vote counts, but it may take us more time than usual to answer questions and end the day.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Regarding your Reck read – You’ve kept him on your ‘suspicion radar’ the entire game. Yet I don’t see a single vote for Reck from you. You’ve managed to drop votes on Zar and BBMolla in the past 2 days. Why is Reck always floating around in your ‘secondary suspects’ pool (you linked him to Magua Day 2 and are linking him to BBMolla today) but never someone you are actually demonstrating a push for?

Questioning why Deas has never voted Reck.

Seriously MoI?

Here’s his ‘no answer’ post.

Vote: Reck

And here he looks briefly at Zar’s ISO and then does what I just knocked him for not doing despite his read … voting Reck.

Does anyone else see this and not thing scumtastic?

--

So, um, I think I made it clear that I forgot to vote for someone to receive a scummy. I was planning to vote T-Bone but I wasn't decided and I don't know why I didn't. I just completely forgot about it.

Yeah. So you were specifically made the deal-breaking vote between BBMolla and T-Bone in the QT. And started Day 3 saying you had some issues with BBMolla back to Day 1. And you ‘just forgot’ to vote to give the Scummie to T-Bone who you’ve been calling Town as opposed to BBMolla who you had issues with. The Scummie with ‘HIDDEN MYSTERY POWERS’. After the problems that happened Day 1 with Fonz getting Best Newbie …

Deas if you are Town this is exactly why I should have such a low opinion of your play. Because that is fucking abysmal on the level of Furc / DrShotty.

--

@MoI: Do you think it's more likely for DV to be scum than Zar? If so, who do you think is most likely to be buddies with DV?

I’ll be frank. No clue. I wasn’t lying when I said I was back to square one. I still am having a hard time grasping how both Magua and KK (who are not scrubs by any stretch) could both be so terribly wrong about Ajax. Unless TheAm is scum I just can’t get it.

I’m digging through things today. Maybe I’ll have something more to go on later.

--

...Uh we didn't discuss in 1C, but I voted to give out the scummy in 1C to hito.

I voted to give out the scummy to Quilford in 2B.

This is why I asked … I’m probably going to need to put together a Google Doc Excel spreadsheet on this to keep claims straight.

--

MoI, lets talk some VCA.... first, we have some other voting methods and quite a bit of information on those votes, would a VCA on judging groups be appropriate?

If you are asking if a VCA of votes in the Judging Groups based on claims would be helpful … absolutely none. The backbone of why VCA work can be useful stems form the fact that it is Mod Confirmed Correct information. Obviously scum are going to lie if they need to about their Judging Group votes so it is a useless exercise.

First I don't understand why that vote count shows a Zar/Theam relationship. It could show a Ajax/Theam relationship as has been implied, or perhaps an Ajax-Zar/Bone/BB relationship. Also your conclusion amounts to "there must be scum in the other players left alive' (okay you do omit Deas here) but still

I assume you are talking about VC 4/5 form Post 899. I’ll give some more of my thoughts ..

Again Ajax started as a Singleton vote on Hito. At that time the other possible counter-wagons to him were Gaoth (3), Zar (1), TheAm(1) and Quilford (1).

Now Quilford was stupid-obv Town. So the question is – why did Ajax pass over Gaoth, Zar, and TheAm and choose Quilford to push?

We know Gaoth was Town. And at VC5 the players on that wagon are the same as VC4. First thing that comes to mind is that a partner was already on the wagon but he might have also been fishing for Town-cred in not directly pushing the most obvious option.

Again … this is looking strictly at vote counts. So in responding to you I’ve gone back to look at TheFonz moved his vote in relation to Ajax’s move to Quilford.

In looking at it Ajax moves to Quilford at Post 103 and Fonz moves his vote to TheAm at Post 108.

So my original premise still stands … Ajax specifically chose to move to Quilford with 1 vote over either TheAm or Zar with one vote.

This, combined with Zar’s presence on the Goath wagon, is what is giving me the Zar / TheAm possible partners thoughts.

Is it rock solid? Nope. But it is worth considering.

[xRECKONERx]

Ugh. I can't come up with a good-sounding case. Maybe later.

but like

would scum actually say this in their post

i dont think they would, MoI

[MagnaofIllusion]

So here’s my issue with TheAm

–

His ISO is pretty scummy, as is the norm. Things that at this stage stand out to me …

Post 9 – Now that KK is dead-Town his “Obv-Buddying to Reck” point can be reconsidered as valid scum-hunting.

Post 151 – To further strengthen KK’s stance … look at his reasoning for voting Quilford here –

I think a scum's buddying a town for towncred from the town and a possible mislynch if the scum flips.

Aside from the fact that Quil is Town … here he’s attacking Quilford for buddying when he did that in his very first post. Cognitive Dissonance.

Post 216 – This “Wagon me is Meh” stance struck me as odd at the time. Ajax, who was Scummy McScumpants had just jumped on at Post 194. Yet TheAm’s reaction is subdued. No “Scum looking for a mislynch” or anything. Just that the wagon is Meh. Possibly not wanting to point fingers since a partner just made the wagon viable?

Post 310 – He’s the first post after Ajax claims and asking questions to see if he can extricate the wagon.

Post 431 – One of many posts (in this case “Trying to work out if scum have daytalk” where is looks to purposefully trying to showcase lack of inside knowledge. While making mistakes about set-up isn’t inherently scummy the number of times he does it is so blatant my gut is saying “Faux Townie Posting” aka Captain Ajax. Post 467, Post 643 are other posts of those ilk.

Post 470 – I’ll comment on this later …

Post 544 – I want this addressed …

I have an idea, but I'd need to check to be certain.

What was your idea?

Post 576 – Already addressed who much I hate this post.

He also has no Ajax interactions at all and as I have gone over before the vote movement and MoIputer both say he is a good lynch.

My big hang-up is that I know TheAm is a VI. It’s one of the reasons I assumed he was getting counter-wagonned to Captain Ajax. But at this point we have two lynches to get another scum (barring Lulz, double Kill from Scum mechanics). I’d honestly rather get him out of the way now even if he flips Town. I also do think interaction wise him flipping either Town or Scum advances the game for tomorrow more than others.

UNVOTE: Deas
VOTE: TheAm

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also on TheAm - let me add that he was on Fonz's suspects lists which makes a "Kill Fonz" N1 a double bonus for scum along with Snuffing out the Best Newbie ...

Will not be voting T-Bone ever for several reasons. I had a discussion with GreyICE in Team QT Day 3 about why I thought he was Town (as Grey wanted him dead) and the reasons I used still hold even with a KK-Town flip.

[theamatuer]

Right then. Note deas does not give a defense at all, yet moi unvotes him anyways.
Anyways, I am absolutely certain that the scumteam is deas/ Moi. There was a scumslip in deas's post, where MoI immediately appended to bus him to avoid it. Deas then goes WTF and tries convincing MoI otherwise.
I doubt I'll survive to post my full case on Moi. Basically their plan is to have deasviel quickhammer me, bus deas To death tomorrow, then use his pro-town leaderness to mislynch the final person (zar?) easily and win.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Right then. Note deas does not give a defense at all, yet moi unvotes him anyways.
Anyways, I am absolutely certain that the scumteam is deas/ Moi. There was a scumslip in deas's post, where MoI immediately appended to bus him to avoid it. Deas then goes WTF and tries convincing MoI otherwise.
I doubt I'll survive to post my full case on Moi. Basically their plan is to have deasviel quickhammer me, bus deas To death tomorrow, then use his pro-town leaderness to mislynch the final person (zar?) easily and win.

Lulz. I'll just point out that you aren't voting either of us ... why is that?

[BBmolla]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: theam

[theamatuer]

Right then. Note deas does not give a defense at all, yet moi unvotes him anyways.
Anyways, I am absolutely certain that the scumteam is deas/ Moi. There was a scumslip in deas's post, where MoI immediately appended to bus him to avoid it. Deas then goes WTF and tries convincing MoI otherwise.
I doubt I'll survive to post my full case on Moi. Basically their plan is to have deasviel quickhammer me, bus deas To death tomorrow, then use his pro-town leaderness to mislynch the final person (zar?) easily and win.

Lulz. I'll just point out that you aren't voting either of us ... why is that?

I forgot.
VOTE: Deasveil
I dont really care if you guys lynch me, but if you guys are just going to follow MoI tomorrow and completely ignore what I just said, then fuck all of you

[xRECKONERx]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: theam

dafuq

[MagnaofIllusion]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: theam

dafuq

BB loves me more than you Reck

In all seriousness - what do you think about TheAm. If you don't think he's Zar's partner who do you think is?

[xRECKONERx]

T-Bone, maybe. I can't get a fucking read on that guy due to LURKATHON 2012.

I'm not saying it isn't TheAm, I'm just saying I'm

really

confident in it being Zar, here.

I really don't think it's DV, despite all the pants-on-head retardation. There's just some shit in DV's posts that's so mind bogglingly DUMB for scum to post that he almost has to just be off-the-rails town. You're town, I'm town.

BBmolla

is

was pretty damn town up until that wagon hop and the fervent sheeping and buddying of me today. From emptyquoting me to agreeing with everything I say to really pandering to my sensibilities, it seems really over the top and almost like a way to purposefully draw connections between the two of us should he flip scum. I'm going to assume this is just BBmolla being crazy suicidal town, though, because last time I was town and he was scum, I nailed him dead in the water and I'm not getting that same "slam dunk" feeling here about him. Plus, all that shit with the fake scummies? No way does scum pull that when it's not even LYLO and hope to get away with a gambit that crazy.

Which leaves me with TheAm, Zar, and T-Bone. I'm pretty sure Zar is scum, which means one of the other two is the buddy, here. I'm just way more sure on Zar than I am willing to turn around and do this whole coin flip business, because even the 50/50 chance relies on me being right about Zar and right about all of my town reads.

[theamatuer]

So here’s my issue with TheAm

–

His ISO is pretty scummy, as is the norm. Things that at this stage stand out to me …

Post 9 – Now that KK is dead-Town his “Obv-Buddying to Reck” point can be reconsidered as valid scum-hunting.

Post 151 – To further strengthen KK’s stance … look at his reasoning for voting Quilford here –

I think a scum's buddying a town for towncred from the town and a possible mislynch if the scum flips.

Aside from the fact that Quil is Town … here he’s attacking Quilford for buddying when he did that in his very first post. Cognitive Dissonance.

Post 216 – This “Wagon me is Meh” stance struck me as odd at the time. Ajax, who was Scummy McScumpants had just jumped on at Post 194. Yet TheAm’s reaction is subdued. No “Scum looking for a mislynch” or anything. Just that the wagon is Meh. Possibly not wanting to point fingers since a partner just made the wagon viable?

Post 310 – He’s the first post after Ajax claims and asking questions to see if he can extricate the wagon.

Post 431 – One of many posts (in this case “Trying to work out if scum have daytalk” where is looks to purposefully trying to showcase lack of inside knowledge. While making mistakes about set-up isn’t inherently scummy the number of times he does it is so blatant my gut is saying “Faux Townie Posting” aka Captain Ajax. Post 467, Post 643 are other posts of those ilk.

Post 470 – I’ll comment on this later …

Post 544 – I want this addressed …

I have an idea, but I'd need to check to be certain.

What was your idea?

Post 576 – Already addressed who much I hate this post.

He also has no Ajax interactions at all and as I have gone over before the vote movement and MoIputer both say he is a good lynch.

My big hang-up is that I know TheAm is a VI. It’s one of the reasons I assumed he was getting counter-wagonned to Captain Ajax. But at this point we have two lynches to get another scum (barring Lulz, double Kill from Scum mechanics). I’d honestly rather get him out of the way now even if he flips Town. I also do think interaction wise him flipping either Town or Scum advances the game for tomorrow more than others.

UNVOTE: Deas
VOTE: TheAm

You lynched KK because he didn't have enough basis behind voting me, and now your giving out his points as your points. Theres really something wrong here.
@216: I dont say things like that. The wagon on me was made on half-baked reasons, and was therefore a meh wagon. It wasn't a good wagon with actual reasoning, and it wasn't a bad wagon where people just random vote and sheep others. And I didn't catch up yet.
@310: I already told you my reasons behind asking Ajax.
431: Where did I make mistakes on setup? In fact, how would you know if I made mistakes on setup if you are town? Both 467 and 643 aren't related to the setup whatsoever.
470: The idea was you scum. I hinted at this multiple times in thread and the judging QTs in fact.
@fonz. I'd also like to note that Fonz was the ONLY person that remotely suspected you. And guess what. He died.

[theamatuer]

MoI:

I think you're town, don't worry.

Also, yes to the questions you asked, and regarding Reck, one thing that I think makes him town (and I'm not even sure about that) is not enough to sustain my townread considering I find him scummy otherwise.

I will get around to explaining my townreads soon.

MoI attacks Deasviel because of this. Deas then goes

Seriously MoI?

In response, and does not put up a single defense. MoI has a full post explaining why hes scum, then goes to me because, more or less, of what people he killed said, and because he dislikes my play.
I think this implies some other communication between Deas and MoI to make MoI change his mind tbh.

[BBmolla]

Right then. Note deas does not give a defense at all, yet moi unvotes him anyways.
Anyways, I am absolutely certain that the scumteam is deas/ Moi. There was a scumslip in deas's post, where MoI immediately appended to bus him to avoid it. Deas then goes WTF and tries convincing MoI otherwise.
I doubt I'll survive to post my full case on Moi. Basically their plan is to have deasviel quickhammer me, bus deas To death tomorrow, then use his pro-town leaderness to mislynch the final person (zar?) easily and win.

^@reck.

[BBmolla]

I like Zar best tbh, it's most likely theam/Zar or DV/Zar.

[xRECKONERx]

SO WHY NOT TAKE OUT THE LYNCHPIN IN BOTH OF THOSE SCENARIOS FIRST AND DEAL WITH THIS LATER

[BBmolla]

Because MoI seems opposed and DV is pantsonhead derp so he's opposed too.

Do enough people think Zar is scum

[xRECKONERx]

MoI will come around if I badger him enough, you're down, I'm down. We just need one more person.

HEY ZAR'S SCUMBUDDY IF YOU BUS NOW WE'LL PRETEND LIKE WE DON'T KNOW IT'S YOU TOMORROW

[BBmolla]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zar

k cool

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI will come around if I badger him enough, you're down, I'm down.

Maybe. Give me the weekend to re-read Zar and look over a few other things.

Also I'm asking you to make a pact

- if we do lynch Zar and he's scum please kill TheAm before T-Bone. I have every reason to think he is Town. We've essentially got 3 lynches for 2 scum at this point.

[xRECKONERx]

I'll make you a deal. If we lynch Zar, I'll reread both TheAm & T-Bone overnight and make a judgment call tomorrow. I'm not promising to line up any lynches.