Mini 1327: Murder in the Louvre- Day 6

[shos]

oh here's a good question. Nuwen, ask the mod some questions, including if there is an SK in this game.

[Zar]

I'm starting to think you're all scum and screwing with my mind >.<

[Yosarian2]

@Yos2: No, really. Look at 2040, 2042, and 2043 again and tell me those come from Town. Those posts are so wrong that they can't come from any kind of realistic misunderstanding.

You do realize he's missed most of of the nearly impenetrable pages of setup speculation today and has probably just skimmed the thread yesterday while trying to catch up, right? Him missing your claim of a post restriction and such is pretty much what I would expect, irrespective of alignment.

You seem to be under the impression that if Nuwen flips Town, we get another Day. Provided there is not a Mafia 1xVig (which would be you) lynching Town here means we hit the end of the line regardless of whether there are one Mafia or two. I continue to be dazed at how you don't seem to grasp this.

Huh?

There are 7 people left alive. If there are 2 mafia and no SK left, then if we mislynch today and the mafia kill tonight, tommorow there will be 3 town and 2 mafia. Not great,

If there is 1 mafia and 1 SK left, and we mislynch today, then we could be screwed unless there's either crosskills or a failed kill, but the odds of both scum groups firing and both hitting town and both suceeding in their kill doesn't seem that high, if track record is anything to go on.

I mean, this *could* be mylo, but it doesn't seem likely. In any case, if we lynch some kind of scum today, the odds should be in our favor.

I really feel like you're trying to sell me this Nuwen lynch with a remarkable amount of specificity, Yos.

I'm pretty frustrated that it looks like we're going to let Nuwen get of today here when she's effectivly claimed scum.

Like I said, I'm willing to settle for a shos lynch, because I still have trouble seeing him being anything but a SK here, because but that's about it. It's probably the safest thing; if shos is a survivor, then there can't be a SK, and lynching him leaves at most 2 mafia, so at least we can't lose tonight if we lynch him.

[Zar]

Some summary brainstorming:

Vig, Mafia, SK

N1 - One Kill (Supposedly Vig)
N2 - Two Kills (Allegedly Mafia and another Kill, Vig claims to have no more shots)
N3 - No Kill.


Possibilities:

N1
1. Yos was really Vig & Vi Mafia shot a BP/SK Nuwen and have wanted him/her dead since.

Would explain Vi's tunneling on Nuwen if Vi's Mafia & Nuwen were the SK

. <- That possibility seems out of the question since shos has claimed third party. Possibility of two BPs? Hardly logical, IMO.
2. Mafia shot shos -> If Mafia had done this and had a hunch of shos being SK I think they would have figured a way to hunt his head.
3. Yos is really Mafia killing town Elmo <- seems a sub-par Mafia kill. Elmo was a big suspect of the crowd and a great candidate for a mislynch.
4. Mafia withheld on N1 <- this looks retarded.
5. Mafia shot Vi, who was protected by Hiraki.
6. Anybody but shos (Vi/Yos, et al) is SK <- would make this game at least a FOUR faction game. Seems too overpowering for the scum and two third party team setup with 13 players just seems ridiculous. After all, we are dealing with uniformed majority with apparently weakish powers.

I can't see Yos being scum in these scenarios unless it's Option #3. The problem is with all this flavor and speculations it's impossible to organize ideas properly.

N2 - 2 Kills:
- Mafia + SK
- Mafia + Extra Mafia Kill? <- Really? Sounds really off-balance.
- Mafia Kill + Somebody along the crowd is really a poisoner and the action was performed on N1? Something prevents the SK from using his kill on certain nights? SK has a limited number of kills? That would explain:

N3 - No Kills. Mafia kill was prevented? / The SK can't kill on consecutive nights? Plausible.

GAH!

[Yosarian2]

Well, last night, Vi is claiming that someone tried to kill her and failed, so that explains one of the missing kills.

[Nuwen]

But, even more then that, think about it. Why would scum try kill Vi, who was hell-bent on lynching Nuwen for the entire game? If Vi and Nuwen were both town, scum would wait until one of them managed to lynch the other, obviously. Only Nuwen would try to kill Vi last night.

Here's the part that everyone seems to think is a scum slip. The people screaming Shos-is-an-SK seem to be ignoring the fact that:

N1:
Hiraki Protects Vi
Shos is bulletproof
Yos claims a shot on Elmo
Katsuki claims no action

Vi was shot by scum, an SK, or

both

, or

neither.

Shos was shot by scum, scum, or scum, or nothing.

In order for you not to be lying here, there are

two

missing kills. You can't think this is a result BOTH anti-town factions targeting Vi, because then

Vi wouldn't have spent so long among your top scum reads.

We'll cross off "both shots -> Vi" right away.

So what else happened in

Yos-mind

, if Vi didn't absorb

both

shots?

1. ShosSK absorbed the scum shot. Shos' shot

had

to absorbed by Vi
2.

Both shots hit Shos

, making it impossible for him to be one of the shooters. We're cross "neither" off Vi's list.

So possible explanations that fit together in Yosmind are:

1. Vi was shot the SK

AND

2. Shos was shot by scum.

Yeah, nice try. I could have bought charter if you could have found a plausible way to explain away the ttracker thing; I could even buy you suspecting me to be a SK, but there's no way in hell town-Nuwen would actually think I'm scum with furcolow here, or that I'm mafia who claimed my own kill at the start of day 2 as some kind of stupid gambit, or that the mafia killed Elmo right after how day 1 ended.

So let's play. You're obviously not opposed to playing "why would scum shoot the x," so I expect you to likewise entertain my questions about mafia shooting Shos N1. Shos tunneled onto UN D1 and didn't do anything remarkable - didn't claim, wasn't lurksy enough to be a random PR shot in the dark.

You've also said that I'm scum because I "slipped" and claimed a shot on Vi - but in Yosmind, scum couldn't have shot Vi D1.

This is at least consistent with him calling Vi potential scum all day

, because an SK shot can land on town or mafia alike, buuuut let me quote myself again here:

Vi N1

you N2

Hiraki protected Vi on a night there was at least one missing kill (two if you think Yos is a town vig, in addition to there being a third party+scum). When Hiraki flipped town, I realized that a couple things could be happening that might require a full/fresh reread.

The thought process:

1. Vi was a scum kill N1 (protected), Yos did some EXTREME gambiting as SK - claiming out a shot on vig fodder, shooting after claiming vanilla-ized.

• This was actually my first working assumption, which is why I'm
  very, very
  surprised to see Vi currently alive, along with everything else. Scum wanted him dead N1 - if he were that problematic, why would he be left alive as protect-conf-notscum? Mafia in this situation would either have to call him the target of the SK kill (which just implies knowledge of night shots, can't be used as an angle) to get him lynched or...? There's no good answer to this question.
  
  He shouldn't be alive unless he controls the mafia shot or there's more going on at night than what's been claimed.

But for completionism, I did move to

1a. Vi was an SK kill N1 (protected), Yos is telling the truth, scum kill was ??? and ??? happened to it. Shos' vest claim could fill in the ???

• The SK thinks Vi is scum too! Help me fucking lynch him and maybe we'll play games tomorrow.
  
  This pretty much implies Shos as the BP SK, and he would have had to absorb the mafia shot.
  This is where I believe the Martin flavor is important and worth reading from as many non-Shos sources as possible
  .

Following me yet?

The first situation makes it highly, highly unlikely that Vi would still be alive as town (in fact, there's a LOT that shouldn't be alive right now). I think the only explanation for this is a cross-kill onto an SK's BP (Vi -> Shos? Maybe Vi -> Yos, but I'm beginning to think he's been telling the truth), and then a no-kill or something failed on the third party's shot. Do you see what I mean?

There just aren't many complete explanations based on what powers have claimed out, unless Magua has some VERY VERY novel information to add to this mix.

I want Vi to claim next, followed by Magua.

This is the post where Yos/Charter seem to think I've claimed scum. It's the same type of process as the one I went through above to figure out what's going on in Yosmind (with one dead doc known, no Magua claim yet).


Let me reiterate that in Yosmind, N1 kill resolution pretty much HAS to be that an Shos-SK shot Vi AND mafia shot ShosSK, otherwise his reads would be radically different.

Put these two scenarios together and there's no possible Yos perspective that fits with 0 kills N3. Scum and the supposed SK

cross-shot again

?; Scum -> Shos, SK shoots Vi again? How does that fit with Nuwen being MAFIA claiming a shot on Vi, if Vi had to have been shot by Shos to account for the other missing kill?

It's not me that's making no sense in this game, and it's not me pulling out the rhetorical stops on the past few pages. If you can't follow my posts,

reread them carefully

. Yosarian has been trying to write them off as nonsensical for most of the day, probably hoping that if one person calls them silly mob mentality will kick in. He was content to reiterate very passive scum read on BOTH Nuwen and Vi all day until I started directing votes onto Charter and called him the likely buddy. That's when Nuwen stopped being "silly, maaaaybe town" and started being " brilliant scum pulling out all the stops." Not a coincidence.

Or, to put it another way, just to point out the absurdity of what you're claiming to believe here:

One more time, so everyone can hear it Parama: Yos is scum claiming vig. You think Yos is scum claiming vig. You, Parama, think Yosarian2 claimed out the scum kill as a vig bullet for no reason or hint of a track/whatever result on him.

I said this long, long before the current gamestate. We have new information a-plenty. And rightly enough, Yos' gambit seems to have worked: You haven't been targeted by any tracks; in fact, the only person interested in hitting you with a nightplay action was

Charter

. I want everyone to GO BACK AND READ THE EXCHANGE BETWEEN CHARTER AND YOS REGARDING THE "FLAVOR INVESTIGATE" CHARTER CLAIMED OUT. I believe this is scum distancing by claiming results on each other; the gamestate at the time had most people assuming tracker cleared -> Charter, hence Charter can "clear" the N2 shooter and BOTH of them are less likely to become targets of this game's swath of PRs tonight.

In other words, Yos took the N2 shot

immediately after claiming that he was vanilla-ized

.

Very important.
Please clarify.

Ok, fine, I'll fullclaim, but this is the very last inch of rope you're getting.

The way my role was set up, I lose my ability (get suspended from the police force or something) if I kill a town, and Elmo somehow flipped town despite all logic and reasoning. So yes, I am no longer a vig.

"Gosh de-darn, I guess I'll fullclaim for no reason. Yep! I'm vanilla. Nothing to see here."

Yosarian even baits the track on Charter, probably knowing that he himself will hold the gun N2

.

If I forget to post day two, just count on a vote for Nuwen/Hiraki.

hint: both of those people just helped us lynch a scum

you didn't

"Please some PR target/clear my buddy while I submit the kill over here from claimed vanilla-land."

And that's the story, morning glory. A strong gambit to save themselves from a very weak scumbuddy.

LYNCH

THE

CHARTER

I

need

help from Zar, Vi, or Magua on this one. You CAN'T be wasting your votes on each other or the survivor will just decide to wagon with scum instead of lynching scum.

[shos]

I'd go with option 3 indeed. a 'bad' mafia kill would confuse town, and it did. before you claimed someone said 'why the fuck would they kill elmo?'...
so yah. I think Yos & charter & furc. no SK.

@yos: there still is three OTHER missing kills, one in the same night. it doesn't explain enough.



holy shit ninja'd by nuwen I'll respond later or at home

[Yosarian2]

But, even more then that, think about it. Why would scum try kill Vi, who was hell-bent on lynching Nuwen for the entire game? If Vi and Nuwen were both town, scum would wait until one of them managed to lynch the other, obviously. Only Nuwen would try to kill Vi last night.

Here's the part that everyone seems to think is a scum slip. The people screaming Shos-is-an-SK seem to be ignoring the fact that:

N1:
Hiraki Protects Vi
Shos is bulletproof
Yos claims a shot on Elmo
Katsuki claims no action

Vi was shot by scum, an SK, or

both

, or

neither.

Shos was shot by scum, scum, or scum, or nothing.

In order for you not to be lying here, there are

two

missing kills. You can't think this is a result BOTH anti-town factions targeting Vi, because then

Vi wouldn't have spent so long among your top scum reads.

We'll cross off "both shots -> Vi" right away.

The only time Vi was among my top scum reads was early in the day today, through pure process of elimination; and then only because I thought that one of (you, Vi) had to be scum, and I thought you were town. Even then, i didn't really want to lynch Vi today because I didn't have much confidence in it.

So what else happened in

Yos-mind

, if Vi didn't absorb

both

shots?

1. ShosSK absorbed the scum shot. Shos' shot

had

to absorbed by Vi
2.

Both shots hit Shos

, making it impossible for him to be one of the shooters. We're cross "neither" off Vi's list.

3. One of the dead town roles is some kind of protective role, or bulletproof, or roleblocker, or something.

4. There may also be a bulletproof mafia godfather who hasn't claimed bulletproof.

5. I'm still not 100% convinced that shos is immune to a mafia roleblocker ability

6. Scum targeted elmo the same night I did (pretty unlikely, but hey)

7. Someone forgot to submit a kill

8. There is other weird stuff going on in this setup we don't know about.

If there is a SK and a mafia in this game, then that means that *4 shots out of 6* have failed so far this game. That does seem doubtful, and in fact is the reason that I'm not voting for shos right now; all the missing kills means I have to consider the possibility that there is no SK. However, in a game where we have 2 claimed bulletproof or semi-bulletproof AND 2 claimed docs just out of the people who survived until massclaim, I'm not ruling it out.

I will say that at this point, I do think that you are mafia and that you tried to kill Vi night 1 and failed. It would explain a lot of your behavior. If there was a failed SK kill attempt night 1, then I have no idea where it went, but there are several possibilities.

Yeah, nice try. I could have bought charter if you could have found a plausible way to explain away the ttracker thing; I could even buy you suspecting me to be a SK, but there's no way in hell town-Nuwen would actually think I'm scum with furcolow here, or that I'm mafia who claimed my own kill at the start of day 2 as some kind of stupid gambit, or that the mafia killed Elmo right after how day 1 ended.

So let's play. You're obviously not opposed to playing "why would scum shoot the x," so I expect you to likewise entertain my questions about mafia shooting Shos N1. Shos tunneled onto UN D1 and didn't do anything remarkable - didn't claim, wasn't lurksy enough to be a random PR shot in the dark.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure that the mafia tried to kill Vi night 1. It's possible they tried to kill shos, or that the kill failed for some other reason, but it's not really that likely.

Again, it feels like this is just a bunch of chaff you're throwing up to further confuse the issue.

You've also said that I'm scum because I "slipped" and claimed a shot on Vi - but in Yosmind, scum couldn't have shot Vi D1.

No, you claimed a shot on Vi *LAST NIGHT*. With no kills, you started off the day yelling the Vi had a bulletproof vest or else she would have been shot last night because of the doc claim at the end of the day yesterday. I don't know why you're even talking about night 1 here, that is clearly irrelevant. I actually do think you probably took a shot at Vi night 1 as well, and that that's why you were so frustrated you couldn't kill her at the start of the day today, but that's just specualtion on my part.

Also, why do you keep saying that "in my mind scum couldn't have shot Vi night 1"? That doesn't make any sense. I think Vi is town. Early in the day I suspected Vi by POE, before I had really tried to think through where all the missing kills had gone, but I never was entirely comfortable with it and never voted her, even when there was a big wagon on her earlier in the day today.

This is the post where Yos/Charter seem to think I've claimed scum. It's the same type of process as the one I went through above to figure out what's going on in Yosmind (with one dead doc known, no Magua claim yet).

You still haven't explained why the scum would have killed Vi just because she was doc protected night 1 (in a setup where possibly 4/6 scum kills have failed, that's hardly definitive proof of anything), instead of Zar, the confirmed town tracker, after Furcolow was apparently willing to die in order to let his buddies know that Zar was a threat. Especally after the doc was dead, why wouldn't the scum target Zar? Why would you assume that they would target Vi?

And, again; Vi was tunneling on you *all game*. If you are town, why wouldn't the scum leave both you and Vi alive so the two of you could keep causing a huge distraction until one of you eventually lynched the other one, and then probably got lynched the next day? Vi is just about the last person I would have expected to get scumkilled last night, and yet you called it right at the start of the day today, and according to Vi's role claim, you were right. You had information that only scum could have had, Nuwen.

At this point, I think the setup is either (Nuwen-last mafia; shos-SK) or (Nuwen+one buddy-mafia, shos-survivor).

Uh, no.

Put these two scenarios together and there's no possible Yos perspective that fits with 0 kills N3. Scum and the supposed SK

cross-shot again

?; Scum -> Shos, SK shoots Vi again? How does that fit with Nuwen being MAFIA claiming a shot on Vi, if Vi had to have been shot by Shos to account for the other missing kill?

Mafia tried to kill Vi last night, killed failed. We know this because she claimed it.

Again, I don't know what happened to the SK kill, and that's the only reason I'm not voting for shos right now. There are possible answers, but none of them seem all that likely. I have a hard as hell time trying to believe shos roleclaim, though.

The fact that you seem unwilling to lynch shos actually does lend weight to the "mafia had a doublekill night 2, there is no SK, shos is a survivor" theory. If there are two mafia left, then you would obviously want to keep the survivor around for another day and mislynch a towne instead; whereas if you thought there was a SK, you would probably want to lynch him.

Yosarian has been trying to write them off as nonsensical for most of the day, probably hoping that if one person calls them silly mob mentality will kick in.

I've been tryign to get you to make sense all day. You spent days doing this bizzare, mysterious "I know something, but I'm not going to tell any of you what it is" thing, to this weird theory about how Furcolow was trying to signal something to another scumgroup, to calling me mafia. None of it makes sense. Seriously, I spent like half the day just trying to get you to make sense, and then I gave up.

He was content to reiterate very passive scum read on BOTH Nuwen and Vi all day until I started directing votes onto Charter and called him the likely buddy. That's when Nuwen stopped being "silly, maaaaybe town" and started being " brilliant scum pulling out all the stops." Not a coincidence.

I was losing patience with you long before you called me charter's buddy, although that was the last straw. But yeah, just the fact you called me charter's buddy just because I pointed out what absurd nonesense your whole case on charter was the last straw.

I want everyone to GO BACK AND READ THE EXCHANGE BETWEEN CHARTER AND YOS REGARDING THE "FLAVOR INVESTIGATE" CHARTER CLAIMED OUT. I believe this is scum distancing by claiming results on each other; the gamestate at the time had most people assuming tracker cleared -> Charter, hence Charter can "clear" the N2 shooter and BOTH of them are less likely to become targets of this game's swath of PRs tonight.

Now you're just being silly.

Very important.
Please clarify.

Ok, fine, I'll fullclaim, but this is the very last inch of rope you're getting.

The way my role was set up, I lose my ability (get suspended from the police force or something) if I kill a town, and Elmo somehow flipped town despite all logic and reasoning. So yes, I am no longer a vig.

"Gosh de-darn, I guess I'll fullclaim for no reason. Yep! I'm vanilla. Nothing to see here."

Ok, I know you're not dumb, so there is no excuse for this line.

IF A CLAIMED TOWN INFORMATION ROLE DEMANDS TO KNOW EXACTALLY WHAT YOUR ROLE IS, AND YOU THINK THAT PERSON IS PROBABLY TELLING THE TRUTH, YOU FULLCLAIM WITHOUT FUCKING AROUND.

You don't demand to know if they're a gunsmith or a watcher or a rolecop or what kind of info role they are; if a pro-town info role who seems to have information on you wants you to claim, you claim. That's just basic mafia 101.

The fact that you're trying to stretch that into "lol Yos fullclaimed for no reason" is just beyond belief.

Yosarian even baits the track on Charter, probably knowing that he himself will hold the gun N2

.

If I forget to post day two, just count on a vote for Nuwen/Hiraki.

hint: both of those people just helped us lynch a scum

you didn't

"Please some PR target/clear my buddy while I submit the kill over here from claimed vanilla-land."

So..i'm scum with charter because I was suspicious of him, while defending Hiraki and you? Is that really the best you can do?

Dance faster, scum.

[shos]

Yos, you make no sense in my eyes. the last part - I have no idea what you're talking about. the part with the big letters - what town PR demanded that? I don't recall anything..?
nobody prodded you to say that. look at post 1136: LINK

the other parts of your post just fail in my opinion, since you really cannot explain what happened everywhere. you're assuming things WAAAAY out of league - that both scum and SK targetted same one, or that mafia has roleblocker and blocked SK, or that there is another doc, or that there's another BP, godfather, whatever.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, you make no sense in my eyes. the last part - I have no idea what you're talking about. the part with the big letters - what town PR demanded that? I don't recall anything..?

Parama did. if you remember, at the time he was claiming to be some kind of cop, and we were close to lynching someone just on his say-so. He retracted that claim shortly afterwards, but only after he forced me to fullclaim and screwed up my plan to draw the scum nightkill.

the other parts of your post just fail in my opinion, since you really cannot explain what happened everywhere.

No, I can't. I've been pretty clear that I don't really understand what's going on in this game. We know that the mafia tried to kill Vi night 3, and probably night 1 as well, and that's why those two kills are missing. Other then that, everything is speculation.

you're assuming things WAAAAY out of league - that both scum and SK targetted same one, or that mafia has roleblocker and blocked SK, or that there is another doc, or that there's another BP, godfather, whatever.

I'm not assuming anything; I'm pointing out that there are quite a few different possible ways for there to be missing kills.

Again, the fact that I'm a little confused about the nightkills and am not 100% sure that there is a SK in this setup is the ONLY REASON that I'm not voting to lynch you right now.

[Magua]

Initial read through: Nuwen, if you ASKED THE MOD SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS....

1. Did someone try to kill Vi N1?
2. Did someone try to kill Vi N3?
3. Did Parama kill kanye N2?

PERHAPS THERE'D BE LESS YELLING.

[Yosarian2]

Initial read through: Nuwen, if you ASKED THE MOD SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS....

1. Did someone try to kill Vi N1?
2. Did someone try to kill Vi N3?
3. Did Parama kill kanye N2?

PERHAPS THERE'D BE LESS YELLING.

It's ok. Nuwen is having hard enough time keeping track of her crazy fake-claim as it is. She's already forgotten that she claimed the mod told her that my role-claim was the truth, for example.

[Magua]

1) It annoys me when people say "We know that Vi was shot N3."

2) I don't believe there's an SK. My reasoning here is a little circular, but screw it, I'm sticking with it. If shos is a BP SK, then mafia know they have to lynch him. So far, none of the people I suspect of being mafia (Vi, Nuwen, charter) are actually on board with lynching shos. So they're not afraid of him.

3) Doubt there's an active roleblocker in the game, because I would expect Zar or charter to be roleblocked if so. This is in slight conflict with Zar claiming his action failed N1; possible Furcolow was a roleblocker, but then LOL ROLECOP needs explaining, and the most probable reason there is that Zar is partner, which again gets highly circular. I'm shelving this for now, but it's worth keeping in mind.

Nuwen is not my prime choice for lynch today. Aggression is a towntell. Paranoia is a towntell. Yos can go on about how Nuwen's been trying to fast-talk, but Yos is either accidentally or deliberately misinterpreting what Nuwen says about things -- eg, Nuwen didn't say Vi was shot N3, Nuwen said, "Why wasn't doc-protected-N1-Vi killed last Night?" which is entirely different and in keeping with Nuwen's previous thought processes. Gee, it would've been nice to get an answer about whether Vi was shot last Night, though...

(I do not see where Nuwen flipped to "Vi-is-town" though.)

In terms of a lynch, I want Vi dead. All of the possible pairings I see include Vi-as-scum, and my current operating theory is that scum tried to shoot shos last Night, not Vi.

If I can't get Vi lynched, charter would be the second.

Yos-lynch is bad. shos-lynch is bad.

[Yosarian2]

1) It annoys me when people say "We know that Vi was shot N3."

Ok. More precicie is tat Vi claimed to have been shot night 3, and that the failed kill attempt has given her a post restriction. For whatever it's worth, the post restriction happened right at the start of the day, before Nuwen even accused Vi of being bulletproof. Also, if Vi's claim doesn't explain the missing nightkill, then I have no good explanation for where the mafia kill could have gone.

2) I don't believe there's an SK. My reasoning here is a little circular, but screw it, I'm sticking with it. If shos is a BP SK, then mafia know they have to lynch him. So far, none of the people I suspect of being mafia (Vi, Nuwen, charter) are actually on board with lynching shos. So they're not afraid of him.

Yeah, that's one of my issues as well.

Nuwen is not my prime choice for lynch today. Aggression is a towntell. Paranoia is a towntell. Yos can go on about how Nuwen's been trying to fast-talk, but Yos is either accidentally or deliberately misinterpreting what Nuwen says about things -- eg, Nuwen didn't say Vi was shot N3, Nuwen said, "Why wasn't doc-protected-N1-Vi killed last Night?" which is entirely different and in keeping with Nuwen's previous thought processes.

Nuwen's exact wording was:

Vi either has an SK-ish vest or controls the scum kill. I want it dead NOW.

That's a little more then "why didn't the scum kill Vi". Nuwen specifically said that Vi has a bulletproof vest BEFORE Vi claimed. (That "or controls the scum kill" thing sounds really tacked-on since the rest of her post was talking about how there couldn't have been a doc protection and all that.) It doesn't sound like vauge nightkill speculation; it sounds much more like she already knew that Vi had a bulletproof vest that had stopped the scum kill.

I mean, what mental gymnatics could she have gone through to reach that conclusion otherwise? "the mafia might have killed Vi, or Zar, or Chamber, and they seem to have failed, which means Vi is the SK, vote vi"? Neah.

Gee, it would've been nice to get an answer about whether Vi was shot last Night, though...

Sure, that would be nice. I wouldn't trust any answer coming from Nuwen at this point, though.

In terms of a lynch, I want Vi dead. All of the possible pairings I see include Vi-as-scum, and my current operating theory is that scum tried to shoot shos last Night, not Vi.

Your current theory is that scum tried to shoot the guy who claimed bulletproof on day 2? The scum would have to be complete idiots for that to make sense.

[Magua]

Your current theory is that scum tried to shoot the guy who claimed bulletproof on day 2? The scum would have to be complete idiots for that to make sense.

Counterpoint: Your current theory is that the scum tried to shoot Vi-a-possible-lynch-candidate-over-Zar-the-tracker?

At least shos was in the category of "people unlikely to be lynched" during N3, unlike Vi.

[Yosarian2]

Your current theory is that scum tried to shoot the guy who claimed bulletproof on day 2? The scum would have to be complete idiots for that to make sense.

Counterpoint: Your current theory is that the scum tried to shoot Vi-a-possible-lynch-candidate-over-Zar-the-tracker?

At least shos was in the category of "people unlikely to be lynched" during N3, unlike Vi.

I think Nuwen-scum would shoot Vi, yes. Vi was tunneled on Nuwen since day 1, and has been a pretty significant threat to her all game.

As for shos; likely to be lynched or not, why would scum try to nightkill someone who was already known to be unnightkillable?

I don't know why Zar hasn't been killed yet either, but shos being targeted doesn't explain that, either.

Anyway, yeah, you're right, at first glance Vi being nightkilled doesn't seem that likely. So how did Nuwen know that it had (apparently) been tried, again?

[shos]

Yos, you make no sense in my eyes. the last part - I have no idea what you're talking about. the part with the big letters - what town PR demanded that? I don't recall anything..?

Parama did. if you remember, at the time he was claiming to be some kind of cop, and we were close to lynching someone just on his say-so. He retracted that claim shortly afterwards, but only after he forced me to fullclaim and screwed up my plan to draw the scum nightkill.

I have no idea what you're talking about. link me to specific posts please.

In terms of a lynch, I want Vi dead. All of the possible pairings I see include Vi-as-scum, and my current operating theory is that scum tried to shoot shos last Night, not Vi.

If I can't get Vi lynched, charter would be the second.

Yos-lynch is bad. shos-lynch is bad.

seriously, you think that after claiming BP days ago scum would target me?
what do you think about charter?

~~~~


questions for nuwen to ask:

1. is there an SK in this game?
2. was Vi shot last night?
3. did yos have different powers in N1 and N2?
4. can magua prevent someone from dying?
5. can charter perform a kill at night?

this should clarify practically everything.

[Magua]

seriously, you think that after claiming BP days ago scum would target me?

I think this is more likely than Vi getting shot, yes.

what do you think about charter?

I'm 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% that one, if not both scum, are in Vi/Nuwen. Since both Vi/Nuwen jumped on that charter lynch so fast it hurt, I don't believe he's a partner. His play has sucked, his reads are nonexistent, he hasn't really done anything with his role, but those are all just antitown things, not scummy, and the heat he's drawn on himself for most of them seems like the thing that scum would avoid.

All that, charter-lynch beats no lynch.

But I'd much prefer Vi lynch.

[shos]

I think that all out speculations are just rotting without having those 5 questions I posted answered. seriously, how can this progress any further, we have all the info already claimed.

[Vi]

You do realize he's missed most of of the nearly impenetrable pages of setup speculation today and has probably just skimmed the thread yesterday while trying to catch up, right? Him missing your claim of a post restriction and such is pretty much what I would expect, irrespective of alignment.

Not really. Why in the name of Louvre are you defending incredibly scummy people in such incredibly implausible ways?

I would illustrate this for full effect but I don't have the artistic creativity at the moment. I also don't have duck cooked in honey and garlic on my tongue and that's also a personal problem but etc.

There are 7 people left alive. If there are 2 mafia and no SK left, then if we mislynch today and the mafia kill tonight, tommorow there will be 3 town and 2 mafia. Not great,

:/ I was counting the lynch twice for some reason. *wherf*

- Mafia + Extra Mafia Kill? <- Really? Sounds really off-balance.

Not necessarily. Scum Vigs are coming into vogue

which is not a good thing IMO

but with the sheer amount of power and protection in this game I would not doubt it.

3) Doubt there's an active roleblocker in the game, because I would expect Zar or charter to be roleblocked if so.

Well actually.

I'm 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% that one, if not both scum, are in Vi/Nuwen. Since both Vi/Nuwen jumped on that charter lynch so fast it hurt, I don't believe he's a partner. His play has sucked, his reads are nonexistent, he hasn't really done anything with his role, but those are all just antitown things, not scummy, and the heat he's drawn on himself for most of them seems like the thing that scum would avoid.

Well actually.

seriously, how can this progress any further, we have all the info already claimed.

We lynch someone.

Hey Magua. Watch this.

Vote: Nuwen

(L-1)
etc.

[shos]

I wonder if I should hammer or not. on the one hand, if we lynch scum, then I'm pretty sure town will prevail, and so will I. on the other hand, if we lynch town, people might want to lynch me to prevent me rejoining mafia or something alike..and I'm pretty sure nuwen will flip town..

Nuwen, ask the questions I sent in. since this is now all about me hammering you(unless magua does that first, which is not so unlikely considering the fact he wants either you or vi), you can remove the 'is there an SK' question and replace it with, 'how many bolded words are there in Shos role pm', so that I can tell if you're lying or not.

if you don't do that, I will hammer.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, you make no sense in my eyes. the last part - I have no idea what you're talking about. the part with the big letters - what town PR demanded that? I don't recall anything..?

Parama did. if you remember, at the time he was claiming to be some kind of cop, and we were close to lynching someone just on his say-so. He retracted that claim shortly afterwards, but only after he forced me to fullclaim and screwed up my plan to draw the scum nightkill.

I have no idea what you're talking about. link me to specific posts please.

Uh. You don't remember Parama's fake info role claim? Really? You were pretty involved in the Hiraki wagon at the time; how could you have forgotten this?

goddamn I'm so confused right now

it's like
the only thing definite here
is that hiraki is scum
very definitie
as in

YOU DICKHEADS
I HAVE ROLE INFORMATION THAT SAYS HE'S SCUM
WHY AM I HAVING TO CLAIM THIS

I was under the impression that he was dead to rights
I hate claiming crap on D2 when I can claim double the crap on D3 or later

Yos, I want you to answer this question, it's important:
Do you have any more shots?

Very important.
Please clarify.

[shos]

ohhh I see, yeah I completely forgot that.

Parama, Polyphème Desroches, was killed. He was a town night guard.

maybe his 'fakeclaim' wasn't so fake after all? perhaps he had only 'slight' info? stuff like, 'yos was in the room'?

[Magua]

Hey Magua. Watch this.
Vote: Nuwen (L-1)
etc.

I watched that, and then I watched this, and by the time I was done, I didn't know what was going on anymore, but I knew it was good.

@shos:

How many mafia do you think are still alive?

[Yosarian2]

ohhh I see, yeah I completely forgot that.

Parama, Polyphème Desroches, was killed. He was a town night guard.

maybe his 'fakeclaim' wasn't so fake after all? perhaps he had only 'slight' info? stuff like, 'yos was in the room'?

He was actually claiming he had info on hiraki. He later clarified he only wanted me to claim because he thought it was weird I was threatening to lynch him if he was lying about his role claim instead of threatening to vig him.