Open 418 - Friends and Fun Times at the Fair (Game Over)

[Potack-ruv]

Yay, Soben is town. Not like I haven't found the scum already.

To be nice, I'll explain my bork read. Just need to get the posts up.

[drmyshotgun]

Just realized that Duplicity is Soben. Uhh...? Alt I presume.

[Potack-ruv]

/inb4 waithowcanyougetascumreadfromonesinglepost

TAM, I like that you're trying to establish accountability.

Buddying up to TAM.

I don't like that you see lurking in deviation of their answer to your question as a scumtell.

Attacking him to not appear to be buddying.

People ignore games for tons of reasons.

Makes a blank statement without evidence to back it up, meaning he can use i to discredit the case without providing evidence.

Do you plan to drive policy lynches when this happens?

Strawmans the point a bit too far.

RedPanda, re: your claim

What the hell?

This sounds like a lead up to another attack, but it just cuts off right there. No further quesitoning at all.

Why are you trying to shut down RVS, the stage where we try to start discussion and get reactions going?

Why are you being obtuse?

No elaboration. What is he being obtuse about (I already know, just want his explanation)?

[Potack-ruv]

Oh did Om say that to me?
I can say the same thing to Om.
Om, you really really Really

REALLY

should know how I play.
And given that I know how

you

play, I think you might be scum in this game.

I don't actually pay attention to what you say half the time :V Only what I feel from your posts. I'm feeling scum from your posts, and my logic backs that up.
We've been in almost every single game together for a few months now, and you know this is exactly how I play as town when motivated.

[Potack-ruv]

asking someone to 'provide a reason for them being town' this early into the game isn't beneficial at all

Yes it is. He can't claim to be town if he can't back it up with why he is town.

and him focusing on pushing on you when he has a scum-read on you rather then defending himself is understandable.

He is not attempting to defend himself at all. And he is not attempting to convince everyone else that we are bad. He is just calling us scum and not doing a thing about it.

[Potack-ruv]

Sorry, I'll address Om/AcRv by Potack from now.
Potack-ruv. I like that name actually.

Pity you guys look scum.

If you were asking who Om

is

:
I'd say he's good player with pretty good gut and skills and certainly fun to play with. Played him so many times I lost the count.

Anyways, in this game seems like he's scum.

This proves my point exactly. He still hasn't explained why we're scum, and when he did I shot down his reasoning because he didn't explain the motivations for it (and still hasn't).

Venmar showed caution with things here. Especially the claiming.
He also questioned and answered and questioned showing no fear. A good sign.

I jumped in and claimed in my first post without fear. So why am I scum? You had to ask first before claiming, which shows you have fear.

I think TAM is kind of scummy because of his real distaste of claimings yet seems like he believes our claims anyways. Looks like a scum knowing people's alignments.

This is a terribly weak attack. What would be his motivation behind showing distaste of claiming if he were scum?

Soben looks town enough for his sensible approach to the game stating possible paths he (they?) might take in this game.

Why does this make him town?

Andrew has two post but looks Town. Very straight.

How? Why do those posts make him look town?

Absta is a bit scummy because I thought he would throw a RVS no matter what. He didn't. Maybe he read the RedPanda post before posting. Yet he didn't do much.

Why was he supposed to throw a RVS? No matter what implies he would do it as either alignment, so does that mean he doesn't have an alignment?

Duplicity, meanwhile, also has one post but that post looks as if he's trying to act like he was here all the time. Not very shady though.

This really sounds like a scumslip. It sounds like you are trying to keep him open to jump on later, yet once you realise it's actually Soben you try and play it off innocently.

McStab looks scummy because he says he likes the activity yet he contributed only one post for it.

What would be his motivation for not contributing if he were scum?

RedPanda is Town because he claimed. I believe that claim. I also see that he's very into it already. Scums will try to get into things rather slowly after Towns started.

I claimed instantly too. I'm obviously into it already, as I'm pressuring you like mad. You still haven't provided a solid reason for calling me scum.

[Soben]

Duplicity is just another hydra that I'm in.

Potack, I sort of understand your point on Bork now. I don't think the buddying/attacking-not-to-seem-buddying or blanket statement are scum-tells in that post at all but I do think his strawman of 'do you plan to drive policy lynches' reads as scummy and do think his 'obtuse' comment was bad, though what I got from that specific comment was that Venmar-Bork are unlikely partners and considering that I think Venmark is scum right now I'd say that Borks not as good a lynch.

As for your point about 'you can't claim you're town without backing it up', I continue to see that as a useless point because if you were to ask me to back up why I'm town at this point I'd struggle to provide reasons that weren't somewhat wifom based. I also don't think that someone needs to instantly defend themselves when FoS'ed from one player; if anything I find people that are overly-defensive in that manner are slightly more likely to be scum. The one thing that I do agree with though is that his lack of really pushing your lynch while claming to have a

strong

scum read on you is off-putting and the rest of the reads he just provided are very very shallow, specifically the 'caution is a town-tell and he asked questions and answered some' reasoning behind Venmar being town and the Absta and McStabs reasoning leave me wondering how he got there on them.

[Potack-ruv]

I have actually voted him and he still hasn't bothered defending. When he attacked me, I refuted all his points the instant I could.

[TeChNoWC]

Meh dr. I have no Illusions about my RQS being able to sniff out scum. It's mainly so that I'm not going "Player X hasn't posted in 5 pages = Scummy"

One minute you seem to be saying that your RQS Q2 is designed to limit lurking, but then this post reads to me that any player who has a fairly 'meh' answer to Q2 gets a free ticket to lurk because they said they would.

How does this suddenly change their scumminess? How is this helpful? And what are you hoping to achieve; limit it, or destroy it as a scumtell?

@Red: Dude, what is with the roleclaim? How is that helping town? What about TAM's RQS looked scummy to you?

[Potack-ruv]

I keep seeing everyone ask why RP's roleclaim helps town.

Why does it hurt town?

[Soben]

Discussion about claims at this point does absolutely nothing other than clutter the thread up with non-alignment based discussion.

Quit it out, please.

[Potack-ruv]

It does help determine alignments. But only if you ask everyone's reasons for their opinion about it.

[TeChNoWC]

@Potack: I was going to say because it limits the NK pool, but I was assuming that town claims would be honest claims. I guess town could be lying too.

So it's all WIFOM really.

And in light of this I am seeing Panda's claim as a discussion starter/potential reaction test. Probably town motivated.

@Soben: What in particular looks 'hollow' about Venmar's posts? Is this your first time playing with Venmar?

[Potack-ruv]

What motivation would town have to lie in terms of claiming their roles? Do you assume all Masons should claim truthfully?

[Potack-ruv]

Hey, AcRv here, I just checked on the game and saw Ommy's last post from us.

Discussion about claims at this point does absolutely nothing other than clutter the thread up with non-alignment based discussion.

Quit it out, please.

Masons would claim VT at this point in game. VT would claim VT at this point in game. Scum would claim VT at this point in game.

Other than that, I'm comfortable with everything he's said. Not as certain on Bork as he is, but I am really good with our vote on shotgun.

[Soben]

It does help determine alignments. But only if you ask everyone's reasons for their opinion about it.

No. Lets make this very clear. Masons won't claim mason with no votes on them therefore masons would claim VT. VT would claim VT. Mafia would claim VT therefore all of the claimages have no alignment-related reasoning behind it whatsoever, the only thing that can be attained from spending time focusing on it is pointing small hints to the scum to who the masons are; you'll find masons will have awkwardish reasoning for their VT claim.

@Soben: What in particular looks 'hollow' about Venmar's posts? Is this your first time playing with Venmar?

Suprisingly it's actually my first time

playing

with everyone in this room other than andrew94 and RedPanda, though I have spec'ed a lot of games that included players here; I haven't seen anything from Venmark in the past though. Might be worth doing a little meta research on him later but I'll probably force Scumhunter into doing it. By 'hollow questioning' what I mean is that he's asking lots of questions that lead nowhere; things like 'why kill rvs!' and 'claiming already!' as well as 'you're dodging my question with a question?!' none of them really seem as if they lead towards deep and relevant discussion.

[drmyshotgun]

I don't know why Potack had to analyse every single reads I gave and disagreed with every single thing I said.

[drmyshotgun]

Probably because he's so sure of my guilt? I dunno.
*shrug*

[drmyshotgun]

VOTE: drmyshotgun
Bye bye.

[drmyshotgun]

UNVOTE:
Lol jokes.
This might get me blacklisted.

[drmyshotgun]

VOTE: Potack

[drmyshotgun]

Why Potack is scum:
Following the trend with claiming VT without commenting anything about it is scummy because it shows you are just doing what others are doing.
You did it without hesitating in your first post that means you rushed into this.
Town would have given second thoughts about this or at least asked around.
THere were only handful of players at that time.

Giving out alignments like free candies (which you didn't deny to btw) is scummy because it misdirects people.
It can tell a person: Whoa, this guy is goood. What this guy says must be true!!
This might not be the case for most of us but it is sort of faking your confidence and expertise of the game.
With virtually not much to get reads from you saying this and that with that much sureness can only mean that you are Scum already in full knowledge of one's alignment.

You say Soben is Town in your post #101.
This is actually being a hypocrite when you look at the post #106 you made.
I tried explaining things with what I have yet you try to tackle every single one of my reads?
Almost all of them pretty much ends with: "Why is this that?"-esque questions.
They look rhetoric, so I won't answer any of them.

AcRv actually does nothing to undo Potack's scumminess.
Looks like he's just keeping his vote on me because changing it would hurt them.
I certainly don't feel his: "comfort" from Potack's previous posts.
His posts sounds like assuring that what Om has done is alright for him. When it actually isn't.

Potack (Om mostly) and I can't be Town together in this game. Therefore either one of us is Scum. I am Town, ergo Om is Scum.
Well, I can't guarantee that he's scum, but right now I want one of us dead.
I'll yield if I have to, should the Town decide on me, since I'm in 11 games right now.

[TeChNoWC]

What motivation would town have to lie in terms of claiming their roles? Do you assume all Masons should claim truthfully?

1. Discussion generation, Masons wanting to hide themselves from an NK.

2. If a Mason is about to be lynched I would assume so. At this stage of the game with all the quickclaims going around, I don't think so.

@ Soben: These questions seem consistent with town Venmar from other games. Not too sure how he plays as scum though.

[line]@ Drmyshotgun: Why is Potack scum?[/line] Pedit

@ Potack: Why is drmyshotgun scum?

[Mortontfrh]

Bump for a top of the page VC before I go to bed (Although it remains the same).

I'll add the VCs to the Event section tomorrow when I wake up as well.

[Mortontfrh]

Vote Count 1.06

With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Potack-ruv

(2) - borkjerfkin, Drmyshotgun

Drmyshotgun

(1) - Potack-Ruv

Venmar

(1) - Soben

Not Voting: TeChNoWC, McStab, Chrimi, andrew94, mcrawford, absta101, RedPanda, Venmar, The Acting Method

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-07-07 16:41:00)