Open 418 - Friends and Fun Times at the Fair (Game Over)

[Potack-ruv]

Why Potack is scum:
Following the trend with claiming VT without commenting anything about it is scummy because it shows you are just doing what others are doing.

You followed it too. Why am I scum instead of you?

You did it without hesitating in your first post that means you rushed into this.

So did RP, why isn't he scum too?

Town would have given second thoughts about this or at least asked around.

Got any evidence of this? Aksi why aren't you attacking RP for this point too?

THere were only handful of players at that time.

There were less when you claimed and even less when RP claimed.

Giving out alignments like free candies (which you didn't deny to btw) is scummy because it misdirects people.

How? They are just my opinions.

It can tell a person: Whoa, this guy is goood. What this guy says must be true!!

Got any evidence to support that? That would generally happen because I am a pro-active town force, not because I am giving out reads like it's nobody's business.

This might not be the case for most of us but it is sort of faking your confidence and expertise of the game.

How? I am already an expert, and you called me a good player. You can't attack me for this if you think it's true too.

With virtually not much to get reads from you saying this and that with that much sureness can only mean that you are Scum already in full knowledge of one's alignment.

How can you determine this? I am showing confidence because I am confident in my reads. I only ever et this confident as town.

You say Soben is Town in your post #101.
This is actually being a hypocrite when you look at the post #106 you made.

How? I am asking why you think he's town.

I tried explaining things with what I have yet you try to tackle every single one of my reads?

Because I'm pressuring you because I think you're scum.

Almost all of them pretty much ends with: "Why is this that?"-esque questions.

Because I want you to explain things.

They look rhetoric, so I won't answer any of them.

Translation: "I'm not going to answer you're questions because I'm scum and can't make up an answer to them."

AcRv actually does nothing to undo Potack's scumminess.

AcRv has barely done anything, he's not really been here for much of this.

Looks like he's just keeping his vote on me because changing it would hurt them.

I started attacking you with my vote on Bork, and I moved it to you soon after.

I certainly don't feel his: "comfort" from Potack's previous posts.

Why not?

His posts sounds like assuring that what Om has done is alright for him. When it actually isn't.

What makes you think this?

Potack (Om mostly) and I can't be Town together in this game. Therefore either one of us is Scum. Om is Town, ergo Drmyshotgun is Scum.

FTFY

Well, I can't guarantee that he's scum, but right now I want one of us dead.

"Hmm, I'm so sure he's scum but I can't prove it. So he must die."

I'll yield if I have to, should the Town decide on me, since I'm in 11 games right now.

"Look, I'll feign towniness by sacrificing myself to get someone mislynched."

Seriously, this is a load of bullshit.

[Potack-ruv]

@TeChNoWC: I've already explained why Gunny is scum, but if you need a hint, just look at any of my posts.

[Venmar]

I do find Venmar much worse though; his posts and questions seem very hollow and don't look as if he's attempting to scumhunt from them, moreso just be active.

Vote: Venmar

- So.. you are saying that i am scummy for not trying to scumhunt.. on page 1 and page 2? Seriously?

[Soben]

Shotgun, following the trend to claim VT in this position isn't a scum-tell and 'not giving it a second thought' is meaningless since every role in the game claims VT here so doing it has no severe harm. His confidence in reads this early on is actually a town-tell, scum hate taking massive stances unless they're forced to as it locks them into a vote alongside with directing attention towards them. His pulling apart of your reads isn't a scum-tell, since I also thought the reasoning behind a great deal of them were extremely flimsy. So if you're actually town I suggest you stop, re-read and re-analyse because at this point I have an extremely strong town read on Potack so you pushing a lynch between you and him is going to 1) Allow a lot of the players in the room to float by just jumping on one of you 2) Make it so that there's less valuable content from everyone and 3) Probably ultimately lead into you getting lynched.

Tech, any chance you can link me to an instance of Venmar acting similarly as town? I want to know exactly what you're talking about here.

So.. you are saying that i am scummy for not trying to scumhunt.. on page 1 and page 2? Seriously?

That's not what I'm saying though scumhunting is entirely possible that early on. What I'm saying is that your posts look more as if they're to seem contributory/active then anything else and that's something that scum are aiming for with their posts early on.

[Soben]

Scumhunter, reporting in for duty.

Potack. I don't know what your agenda is with your fight with DrMy. It feels like it has an agenda to me and it doesn't feel like that agenda is catching scum. Do you even actually think he's scum? I don't think you do.

[Potack-ruv]

I can link you to a scum game from Venmar if you want.

PEDIT: Lol contradiction. I suggest you talk that out with Regfan first.

[Soben]

This account is always so bipolar. Seriously. Needs less logic.

[Potack-ruv]

lol

[Soben]

I guess what I'm saying is we should probably start focusing on other players who haven't posted that much yet. I can see the you v DrMy argument dominating day 1 and could allow scum to lurk and watch the town burn. That would be bad. I quickly iso'd people and there are probably what, at least 4 slots who haven't posted yet. Let's try and get them involved :3.

[Soben]

I suppose its just like 1 day into the game though. Plus If I make enough little posts I can tell Regfan I made more posts than him and thus tried harder lololol.

[Potack-ruv]

But Gunny is scum. We should lynch him today. We can focus on everyone else tomorrow.

PEDIT: Lololol

[Venmar]

Tech, any chance you can link me to an instance of Venmar acting similarly as town? I want to know exactly what you're talking about here.

- There are probably a couple instances in games that i have ongoing, but if you want you can read Open 399, that is my latest completed game. Luckily for you i also played as scum there, so feel free to get some kind of a scum meta, but that was my first time playing as scum so i doubt it is as reliable.

So.. you are saying that i am scummy for not trying to scumhunt.. on page 1 and page 2? Seriously?

That's not what I'm saying though scumhunting is entirely possible that early on. What I'm saying is that your posts look more as if they're to seem contributory/active then anything else and that's something that scum are aiming for with their posts early on.

- I was actually legitly curious on RedPanda's actions, and i was trying to get the answers that i wanted answered to the questions i got from reading RedPanda's posts. Right now i think he is town though due to his further actions and early claim, it's just that when i first saw the claim i was curious why, so i asked. I didn't have much scumhunting intentions in the beginning i agree though, it's just that i usually have a lot of questions sometimes and i play honestly.

PEdit: I need to read in on this conflict with Shotgun. I will post my thoughts on it in a little bit.

[Soben]

PEDIT: Lol contradiction. I suggest you talk that out with Regfan first.

I've been talking with Scumhunter for the last half-hourish, he pretty much likes opposing my strong town-reads just to annoy me alongside with how he puts it ''to play devils advocate" to force me into explaining the reads to him in more detail. I don't know why I agree to hydra with him over and over again.

[Potack-ruv]

Lol.
Dissonance.

[Mortontfrh]

Bah, I went to remove Sober's wrong account post which he quoted in #96 to allow for less confusing ISOs and I completely neglected the fact that it would screw up the VC placements. Oh well, there goes the top of the page VCs for the last few pages.

Also, current VCs and a list of all VCs are being put in the first post in case anyone finds that easier to work with.

[Soben]

If there is one thing we are not, its sober!

[RedPanda]

shotgun is confirmed town. I'm 100% sure of this. its because of something hes done in this thread. I don't want to elaborate on this. I'll play this card when the time is right.

I guess what I'm saying is we should probably start focusing on other players who haven't posted that much yet. I can see the you v DrMy argument dominating day 1 and could allow scum to lurk and watch the town burn. That would be bad. I quickly iso'd people and there are probably what, at least 4 slots who haven't posted yet. Let's try and get them involved :3.

Also this.

I mean I liked the om vs shotgun fight.

But stop trying to make it all about the both of you today.

[absta101]

Wtf is this. Who is soben and potako?
Om can you not do that editing quote shit, it's verry annoying.
----
Yes, still reading.

[RedPanda]

hotgun is confirmed town. I'm 100% sure of this. its because of something hes done in this thread. I don't want to elaborate on this. I'll play this card when the time is right.

okay this sounds stupid.

shotgun is TOWN. I'm pretty sure about this.

Its because of something hes done in this thread.

The first person to tell me what it is gets a prize.

[McStab]

@Gunny - Of course I like activity, as it generates discussion, which generates information, which is the only way to go about catching scum; if you'd properly read my post, I then go on to say that I tend to post not as often but with content-filled posts. At the risk of sounding like an OMGUS argument, I don't really like your reads and/or agree with them, for the simple reason that I don't necessarily agree that simplicity = towntells. Scum can act brash as well, and scum can get away with looking like a town player by posting alot of fluff or near-fluff, particularly Day One, where our information is obviously limited.

That being said, I haven't gotten a particularly scummish vibe from you, more of a town creating discussion.

In regards to claiming, although this has already been pointed out, I think at face value it's useless - masons, VTs and scum will all claim townie at this point. I think it's utility lies more in how others have reacted to it. No one's reactions have struck me as particularly revealing, except TAM who's questions could've been a subtle attempt to fish for masons.

RedPanda strikes me as town from his straight honesty and aggressive demeanor, as well as what appears to be earnest scumhunting. While I may not use his methods, I get a distinct town vibe from them.

I am undecided on TAM and Potack. While both have offered plenty of discussion and information, I haven't gotten a town vibe from either.

One thing I did notice, however small, is a potential slip of the tongue by Venmar:

"- There are probably a couple instances in games that i have ongoing, but if you want you can read Open 399, that is my latest completed game. Luckily for you

i also played as scum there

, so feel free to get some kind of a scum meta, but that was my first time playing as scum so i doubt it is as reliable."


Also? I don't think it really fits in the rest of the sentence, and could be a slip of the tongue pertaining to this game. I would like others views on this however, perhaps I am just putting the wrong emphasis on the wrong words when reading that, but it stuck out to me.

Finally, I would really like to hear from some of the other players. There are a few who haven't posted at all, and I wasn't satisfied with either Andrew or Abasta's posts. With the game being so early this is to be expected, but I would like an upswing in posting from all of them.

[borkjerfkin]

Today's not going to be a very active day for me due to company.

Regarding TAM:
Honestly, I thought you were misinformed town until #38. My read on you prior to that was that you're trying to get discussion moving (good) but your metric for determining scumminess is HORRIBLE (null). Yet after, you back away from your earlier stance by saying that you only plan to policy lynch people determined by their activity compared to OTHER games (Which makes the answer to your #2 worthless), and then even go as far to admit that lurking might just be anti-town and not scummy. This backtracking is mildly scummy.

Regarding Redpanda:
I wanted to know why you thought claiming was a good idea. Your answer (#61) indicates that explaining why you think so would be anti-town. I can accept this for the moment. You're probably town.

Regarding Venmar:
#23 is so derpy that I have no choice but to assume you're being intentionally obtuse, hence what I said in #26. You really think RedPanda is trying to "Shut down RVS" in the sense that he wants to stifle discussion? Really? You're probably my #2 right now.

Regarding Potato:
#67 - "I still have yet to see you explain properly why we are scum."
Wait, so if you happen to be scum, and he explained it "properly", you'd just concede the point? What?
#84 reads like a weak OMGUS (Andrew disagrees with me, gotta be scum).
#89 "You focus much more on making me look bad then clearing your name. Which isn't really something town do. "
No, this is precisely what town need to be doing; attempting to find scum.
#102 -- you accuse me of a strawman when I'm asking for clarification? I'm actually actively avoiding strawmanning by not ASSUMING he meant anything and asking what he meant.
Also in #102 -- You already knew what I meant but you want me to explain it anyway? Why should I have to elaborate on something for the sake of elaboration?

Regarding Shotgun:
Early town reads are not scummy in my experience. I don't see the case on him, but his last post is

interesting

. Weak town.

Confirm vote: Potato

Soben seems town. I'm kind of out of time.

[RedPanda]

One thing I did notice, however small, is a potential slip of the tongue by Venmar:

"- There are probably a couple instances in games that i have ongoing, but if you want you can read Open 399, that is my latest completed game. Luckily for you i also played as scum there, so feel free to get some kind of a scum meta, but that was my first time playing as scum so i doubt it is as reliable."


Also? I don't think it really fits in the rest of the sentence, and could be a slip of the tongue pertaining to this game. I would like others views on this however, perhaps I am just putting the wrong emphasis on the wrong words when reading that, but it stuck out to me.

good work

Vote Venmar

[Soben]

Absta, I assume your confusion is because you've never played with a hydra - it pretty much means that two people share one account/role.

RedPanda, I'd be interested in hearing the answer to the shotgun thing is. Really hoping it's not the selfvote then unvote following it because I read that as null.

McStab, I know what you're meaning by the 'slip' thing but I don't think it's a slip, awkwardly phrased yes but I think the 'also' element has to do with it being a completed game

and

it being a scum game to make meta'ing easier. You can still vote Venmar anyway though.

[Soben]

Oh PS: McStab is pretty much 100% town. Hunting for slips in phrasing of words is something that I've done in most town games but never as scum and know a few others that work the same way making it an extremely strong town-tell, not just that but the fact that he asked for opinions rather than instantly voting along with it is a town-tell as scum could just easily use that sort of phrasing to justify throwing a vote down.

[RedPanda]

its definitely not that.

no no soben.

We must make venmar's life miserable for that.