↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:
No, it isn't. Town has a limited capacity to get letters. Taking a letter S that is overwhelmingly Pro-Scum prevents them from taking a Pro-Town letter (or letter that they can use in a Pro-Town fashion).
There are four S in the game. Depriving scum of all them is a huge waste of resources when it is just as easy to specify "S is a scummy letter and taking it is a Pro-Scum action" works just as well.
Iceguy wrote:Are you really that stupid or do you misinterpret me on purpose?
IceGuy wrote:That's not what I said. I said scum is going to have some letters lying around because they will not always be able to utilize them at the current moment. If you have a C and a B you can use both letters but just not currently because there's nothing you get for CB or BC.
Iceguy wrote:You said we should be lynching scum, instead.
IceGuy wrote:Yeah, vig makes them dead, the others leave them alive.
Letter Steal is a weak RB for possible future powers.
Iceguy wrote:The fact that one example fucked over town does not mean directing is anti-town in general. Contrary to what you said, I acknowledged this. It's you who claims that this one example makes all directing efforts magically anti-town.
Iceguy wrote:They are just as "niche" or "very limited" as the scum applications of those powers would be. Share is only of use to scum if you share between scum players and make sure town doesn't catch you because letters aren't where they should be, and Strongman is only of use if there is actually something that would inhibit your action. They're just not strong powers.
↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Oh look, the ‘loaded question’ false dichotomy. Classic scummy rhetoric technique.
So you are again making a niche argument (Maybe scum have a couple useless letters that we could deprive them of) to bolster your position.
Scum easily benefits from depriving Town of letters as it maintains the game in a state that is as close to Mountainous as possible. Town doesn’t benefit from Letter Steal unless there is significant luck (targeting scum who happen to have unused letters that benefit the person giving up LS directly). Scum can’t be prevented from killing via Letter Steal and 10-3 near Mountainous is very Pro-Scum sided.
It is still a straw-man. You said “Letter Steal can be used to prevent scum from making abilities in the future” when it doesn’t prevent them from killing or put them in the ‘dead pile’.
My response is “You should lynch scum not focus on stealing their letters”
Your response was to throw in Vigs and Roleblockers in a pure Strawman argument.
Letter Steal can’t block the scum kill and thus it’s function as a ‘Weak Roleblock’ is at best a niche, situational use that in most iterations of this game would never bear fruit.
That one example is one more than you have shown in defense of your position. I can point to many other situations where directing publicly stated powers (Dayvigs in Cyclical Experiment 1 and 2) was disastrous for Town. I can probably find many more if I needed to. At this point the burden of proof is in your corner and you continue to not show any counter-evidence to rebut my stance.
Share is pretty niche useful to all alignments and thus isn’t a significant factor in analyzing whether a letter is Pro-Scum, Pro-Town or neither.
Strongman is ONLY useful to scum. Letter Steal is only useful to scum in any meaningful way.
S is therefore a Pro-Scum letter. QED.
↑ Voidedmafia wrote:
Then let it be an exercise for your mind to figure it out. Shouldn't be too hard, should it?
P-EDIT: Lol, is that all you have to say now?
Arugula wrote:Also, if I don't want any letters on the board, can I take an unflipped one? Which plan are we going with?
↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:Whisper wrote:I realise this, but it's not the only role M makes, and it could also be a very pro-town letter. In addition, my choice could have little to do with me trying to make up an ability, and more to do with preventing scum from snatching it today. The only person that knows why I chose it is obv me.
All of these are reasonable points but none of them address why you feel answering “I don’t have an S” wasn’t viable or how Voided was not being Town oriented in his question.
Whisper wrote:I'm not the only person to pick a letter that would benefit scum, but no one else has been asked about their other letters. This coupled with what I said just said, means there is a specific reason why I'm being asked, and the fact it came from the one person who seems to really believe I am town, and not someone else, say yourself for example, just doesn't sit right quite right with me. I expected Voided to either have nothing to say about it, or to express some kind of relief at the most. I still don't know if he's just doubting himself in a similar way to my doubts about IG, or if he's being clever scum. I'm still leaning towards him being town.
Well given that multiple letters have both Pro Town and Pro Scum combinations makes the bolded dicey. Do you think anyone else has made a pick that can ONLY be beneficial to Scum (like S)? If so who are they?
Whisper wrote:As for the massclaim part of your question. I would have had no problem at all coughing up my letters if we were all doing that, and then following my idea of structuring night actions, but we are not. And I see no reason why I should now be the only person to have to reveal either of their letters just because I chose the M. I won't be doing it because revealing either of my other letters will be a detriment to the town. That is all I'm prepared to say.
Revealing that you do not have an S is not the same as revealing your other letters and attempting to suggest they are is logically invalid. Thus any objections to saying “I don’t have an S” can’t be grounded in this logic.
Whisper wrote:Sorry, I should have used a different word. My problem is not that I think the people who joined his wagon after me are scum, it's that most of them are either town or null reads. The players I find scummiest are not on his wagon, which worries me somewhat. I have Amrun as a town read, both you and Arugula are leaning town, and Voided is a null - leaning town. So I'm confused at to whether this is a town driven scum wagon (with scum trying to divert attention to other people such as myself), or a town driven town wagon with scum distancing themselves. When taking into account the fact that IG came up with a plan, can you see why I'm doubting myself?
I understand your line of thought but can’t say I really ascribe to it. I guess this line of thought means regardless of whether you think Iceguy is scum there are FYPOV at least 2 scum off the wagon. I guess I would like your thoughts on those most likely to be scum (in two groups … scum diverting from a partner and scum simply staying off the wagon) who are not on Iceguy’s wagon.
↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:Well given that multiple letters have both Pro Town and Pro Scum combinations makes the bolded dicey. Do you think anyone else has made a pick that can ONLY be beneficial to Scum (like S)? If so who are they?
↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Read Post 86. It has already been explained there.
Do youNOTconsider S to be only beneficial to scum?
AurorusVox wrote:
I'd answer her stupid questions if she was town for the sake of clarity.
I don't mind answering questions of scum