Open 418 - Friends and Fun Times at the Fair (Game Over)

[VisceraEyes]

Andrew seems to be setting up a mason claim with DrMyShotgun - at least that's how I read it.

I had an early town read on RP, but it disintegrated when he opted out of scumhunting (after how insistent he was early game about it) in favor of what equates to policy lynching my slot for replacing out (or the circumstances under which he replaced out - whatever, it's still policy).

Soben I have a town read on.

I'm not sure how I feel about the whole DrMy and Potato thing. On the one hand, DrMy

is

refusing to answer questions based on formatting...which I dislike. On the other, Potato doesn't appear to be doing anything but pestering DrMy, which I also dislike. Ultimately, I dislike the whole thing and wish we could tell it to just shut up.

I'm not liking TAM. This interaction seems weird...

The fact that he posted it quickly just doesn't really change my read on him. Are you telling me that, as scum, you've never done a mad rant, typed it out quickly, hit send and never looked back?

It was pretty detailed for a mad rant.

I think fifteen minutes is plenty of time. In fifteen minutes I am sure any experienced player could pull off a post like that as scum.

An experienced player would make a better case than that.

I've seen less experienced Mafia make that kind of case from the heart. I've done that in games on my old site where I'm scum.

Though usually it's case first then other stuff.

He's said he thinks the whole Dr/Potato thing is TvT right? So why throw in this comment about RP's town-read on DrMy? I mean, sure, devil's advocate or whatever...but it just seems to be adding needless doubt to one of his town-reads. He doesn't seem to be adding much substantive content to the thread, just a lot of fluff and useless (imo) questions. My strongest scum read.

VOTE: The Acting Method

[Code_X]

From the top things that jumped out. I tend to go through things chronologically so it may not make sense - it helps me though. So you'll have to like it and lump it.


------------------------------------

- Why are you trying to shut down RVS, the stage where we try to start discussion and get reactions going?

Shutting down RVS is a good thing. No? Panda strikes me as townish first few pages.

The Acting Method is acting all defensive 38 and 42. Wittering on about policy lynches when no-one is advocating that.

Soben 91 - sums up the first few pages nicely.

Shotgun's 97. Strikes me as odd. Andrew has said zip all. Absta is a bit scummy. Duplicity who? is not that shady. McStab looks scummy for having only one post. All very wishy-washy. Though in his defence he does like to give out reads and the like on most of the town. Not the tunnelling Shotgun.

Potack 102. Strikes me as picking as many holes in a post as possible. Way OTT.

Techno comments on claims and opening pages, tends to ignore the rest of the stuff, particularly Pot's push at Bork. Defends Venmar.

Shotgun feels town to me 121 - albeit I don't agree with all of it and there's a fair bit of fluff, it feels genuine. Albeit sounds rather defeatist. No beef with 126 from Potack

Venmar pops in says nothing but defends himself.

Slip of the tongue?

Ven proceeds to post a load of fluff.

Luckily for you i also played as scum there

Absta also contributes nothing.

McStab points out the Venmar possible slip. Glad I'm not the only one. I like his 144. Bork's 145 strikes me OMGUSSY.

Venmar's 150 feels off. TAM posts a load of fluff about lynching lurkers and mafia discussion. Defends Venmar. Possible scum trio Venmar, TAM, Tech.

Tech 158 attacks Shotgun, defends Venmar. 161 is worse - why should the below worry you Tech? Town have arguments between themselves all the time.

The only thing that worries me is if this is town on town.

Where's Psyche's thread on flailing.

Drmy looks like flailing scum not sure how to get pressure off him.

Wouldn't mind Bork elaborating on his scum reads in 178. They are reasonable though.
Om/Potato also sticks up for Venmar. I don't see any evidence of town Venmar here.

Tech again sticks up for Venmar 195.

Why just these two, meh?

I read over most of the thread and Andrew is coming off as sketchy to me, but that may just be because of how plays and how it irritates me. Other than that i will read into Shotgun a little bit more and see what's up with him. I am feeling very lazy as of late though, i will muster up the determination to make some kind of a post about Shotgun or Andrew in a bit.

Absta continues to be useless. Chrimi contributes nothing. Acting Method also remains useless. Just post theoretical posts from time to time.

The Potato/Shotgun argument bored me.

239 really bugs me again from Tech. I know you may be mates and what not - but it just seems you seem overly gutted.

Bork is townish. 243 is good.
Chrimi's reads in 285 are pretty dreadful. Doesn't elaborate on anything bar Shotty wanting to replace out. 12 pages? Almost like you can't be bothered. I disagree with 299 also I don't think TAM has been doing any scum hunting whatsoever.

----------------------------

To sum up.

Scummy - Techno, RainbowDash - purely due to Venmar, VisceraEyes - purely due to Absta, TAM, Chrimi, not overly happy with the Potato slot neither.
Townish - Shotgun, Panda, Andrew, McStab, Soben, Bork.

No null reads is odd

Will be ISOing my scum suspects before voting.

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Edit - May change opinion on Viscera due to catch up post.

[VisceraEyes]

Shit I forgot that post Code, I saw that too. Venmar on "shutting down RVS".

Can't we "generate discussion" and "get reactions" without throwing random meaningless votes around? I thought we could, and I didn't think RP's "shutting down RVS" was scummy at all...but more importantly, I DID find Ven's insinuation (RP's shutting down RVS is suspicious) scummy.

[TeChNoWC]

Meta means everything to me Code... There are more individual scum and towntells than there are universal ones. You know how I play as scum. You've played through two scumgames with me and watched how I try to avoid the noose. You should know better that I wouldn't do this as scum, which leads me to a very disturbing conclusion... You are likely scum.

"Why just these two, meh?"

Misrep. I have loads of towntells.


Your entire suspicion on me seems to be revolving around my townread on Venmar. How does that make me scum? Is Venmar scum? Or is Venmar scum simply because I am defending him? You want to potentially lynch me based on a hunch that I am protecting scum-buddy Venmar? No flip, and you are already calling out the scumteams.

My '239' is me being overly gutted. Venmar is probably my favourite person to play with on mafiascum, and I was looking forward to him being in the game. Again, this could ONLY be construed as scummy if Venmar is scum. Where's the logic? Where's the logical, calculated, 'non-smeary based on one possible tell' Code gone?

I'm guessing out the window with his lack of town role PM.

Vote: Code_X

pressure vote for now. I would still rather a drmy lynch at this stage (must be your scumbuddy since you stuck up for him, oh my!/sarcasm), but I await your post-ISO post with eager anticipation.

[Code_X]

VOTE: TeChNoWC

I get a big scum vibe from Tech.

No evidence of scum hunting. Tunnelling on Shotgun but seems to be sheeping Potato. Constantly defends Venmar who seems scummy to me. I have read a few of Ven's games but player's meta change from game to game and Tech seems to be basing his whole play on meta and not this actual game.


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Haha, just seen you post above. Will comment shortly.

[Mortontfrh]

Arugula replaces Bork, we're now good on replacements!

Thanks to all the replacements, I really appreciate being able to fill out this game so quickly with so many people replacing simultaneously.

[Code_X]

328 is extremely defensive considering I hadn't actually voted you at the time.

I'm aware of your scum game more than your town game yes. But one game I was killed about a day after you replaced in and another was the newbie game where you were cooked basically.

As far as Venmar goes I have a scum read on him and part of it is based on meta and part of it is based in this game. Your defence of him strikes me as seriously odd.

[Arugula]

I will read the thread tonight and post tomorrow.

[TeChNoWC]

328 is extremely defensive considering I hadn't actually voted you at the time.

I'm aware of your scum game more than your town game yes. But one game I was killed about a day after you replaced in and another was the newbie game where you were cooked basically.

As far as Venmar goes I have a scum read on him and part of it is based on meta and part of it is based in this game. Your defence of him strikes me as seriously odd.

I am defensive as town, because I don't mind having it as a tell.

I realise I could be wagoned for this, but I am fully willing to take that risk given my hunch on you is pretty strong at the moment. I majorly OMGUSd you. But I majorly OMGUSd you for a reason. You don't usually play like this and that makes me think scum.

Calling someone scum for defending a scumread is BAD play, and scum do that. Calling someone scummy looking for defending a scumread? Thats fine. What bothers me though is, why not vote Venmar then?

And yes, I knew you were going to vote me. It takes few brain cells to realise I was your top scumread after that introduction post.

[TeChNoWC]

I simply cannot explain my reasons for defending Venmar. They are tied up in another game.

The only thing that strikes me as odd is that I know Venmar likes playing town more than scum (its on his wiki). Which makes me think it's POSSIBLE he is scum since he replaced out, but other things for me suggest otherwise.

[Regfan]

I have an extremely strong town read on Code_X now, his catch up post includes a lot of things that I've been thinking lately mostly related to interactions; that being that Techs defence and meta read on Venmar was completely undeserved and "ongoing games" doesn't change my mind of that at all though I think his leap from it being possibly just friend bias towards him having to be scum is wrong. His commenting that Venmar-TAM work together as partners very much from how they handled each other earlier in the game is something I agree with. I also found the way he approached the 'possible wording slip' comes across as he very much thought he stumbled into a slip. Also the fact that he showed something that makes him lean towards Bork being scum and then something that he found to be a town-tell shows that he's actually scumhunting and reading through the thread with intent to look deeper whereas I think scum would have pre-determined opinions or stances on a lot of players rather than commenting on both sides.

VE, I can see what you're saying about Andrew setting up for a mason claim with Shotgun but am pretty positive it's not the case which is why I want andew to elaborate on what posts of Shotguns made him think he was a mason. And this is something that needs him doing pretty much asap.

Also everyone seems to be saying the "RP town-read dying" - I don't get that at all; his "Shotgun is town 100%, okay maybe not 100%" attached with his reasoning behind it comes across as genuine scumhunting and a very strong town-tell. Other than that his votes seem to be for reactions and pressure.

[Soben]

Really sorry about this again mod, my post;

I have an extremely strong town read on Code_X now, his catch up post includes a lot of things that I've been thinking lately mostly related to interactions; that being that Techs defence and meta read on Venmar was completely undeserved and "ongoing games" doesn't change my mind of that at all though I think his leap from it being possibly just friend bias towards him having to be scum is wrong. His commenting that Venmar-TAM work together as partners very much from how they handled each other earlier in the game is something I agree with. I also found the way he approached the 'possible wording slip' comes across as he very much thought he stumbled into a slip. Also the fact that he showed something that makes him lean towards Bork being scum and then something that he found to be a town-tell shows that he's actually scumhunting and reading through the thread with intent to look deeper whereas I think scum would have pre-determined opinions or stances on a lot of players rather than commenting on both sides.

VE, I can see what you're saying about Andrew setting up for a mason claim with Shotgun but am pretty positive it's not the case which is why I want andew to elaborate on what posts of Shotguns made him think he was a mason. And this is something that needs him doing pretty much asap.

Also everyone seems to be saying the "RP town-read dying" - I don't get that at all; his "Shotgun is town 100%, okay maybe not 100%" attached with his reasoning behind it comes across as genuine scumhunting and a very strong town-tell. Other than that his votes seem to be for reactions and pressure.

[Code_X]

You don't usually play like this and that makes me think scum.

How do I usually play?

Calling someone scum for defending a scumread is BAD play, and scum do that. Calling someone scummy looking for defending a scumread? Thats fine. What bothers me though is, why not vote Venmar then?

I'm not just calling you scum for defending a scum read though. It's not just your constant defence of Venmar. It's the weak attacks on Shotgun with no real reason, sheeping Potato. It's the lack of comment on most of the game and 75% of the players. I'd happily vote either you or Venmar tell you the truth - but with Venmar replacing out more chance of getting a reaction from you. Which you've obliged with. I'd add I have no problem with people defending people. I don't see it as a scum read, but I do feel your basing your whole defence on Venmar on meta and not this actual game. I know the other game is probably on-going but which one is it?

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edit have just seen other posts will catch up when get chance working all night so will be sporadic.

[Chrimi]

What garbage is andrew pulling off...?

Makes no sense at fucking all and then EBWOPS like that...

VOTE: Andrew

[Code_X]

I simply cannot explain my reasons for defending Venmar. They are tied up in another game.

The only thing that strikes me as odd is that I know Venmar likes playing town more than scum (its on his wiki).

Which makes me think it's POSSIBLE he is scum since he replaced out

, but other things for me suggest otherwise.

Backtrack ahoy!!

[Soben]

Oh lord. I see another tunnel developing.

Code_X - Again I think you're treating Techs defence and interaction as Venmar as something that it's probably not; I think his 'ongoing game' defence is probably legitimate which makes them unlikely to be partners and furthermore I find his consideration of himself possibly being wrong here as less of a backtrack and moreso of him re-looking at a situation. I'd agree that his vote on shotty ect. is bad though but half the room nearly can be thrown in for acting in that manner.

Tech - Your 'meta' read on Code is shit. I'm very confident he's town here and the sooner you unvote him the better.

[VisceraEyes]

Yeah, Code reading town based on what I'm seeing...what's this about Tech?

[Chrimi]

@RainbowDash: It's you! The town winner

Except, y'know, we should've just lynched Thomith Day 3 instead of waiting for Day 4 >.<

Anywho, I'm waiting to see Andrew's response to the questions Soben asked him.


No clue what's happening on Tech, one sec....~

[TeChNoWC]

I simply cannot explain my reasons for defending Venmar. They are tied up in another game.

The only thing that strikes me as odd is that I know Venmar likes playing town more than scum (its on his wiki).

Which makes me think it's POSSIBLE he is scum since he replaced out

, but other things for me suggest otherwise.

Backtrack ahoy!!

Misrep. That bothered me but other tells overwhelm my read on Venmar to a very great deal. And I am not providing the game. I've been in trouble before because of talking about ongoing games.

You never pidgeon hole players as town. You never give bad reasons. You analyse and give a case, and you are far less determined in your reads. That is my experience with you anyway. You seem different in this game, and it makes complete sense for a scummy to attack players with strong towntells in a setup like this. And I know you wouldn't have been silly enough to consider this already. Hence, your decision to attack me based on a strong townread is hell scummy, PARTICULARLY when I have strong townreads on other players, and other players have strong townreads on other players.

I have no issue 'sheeping' Om as you call it, because his reads are in sync with mine, he gives good cases, and I know how successful he is at tracking down scum as town.

[Chrimi]

~...... Yeah techno, you won't have my support on a Code_X lynch, that's for sure. He looks pretty town in my eyes, and I have no clue what you're trying to get at.

Maybe it's because I haven't played with him before, IDK, but you won't have my vote anytime soon.

[TeChNoWC]

~...... Yeah techno, you won't have my support on a Code_X lynch, that's for sure. He looks pretty town in my eyes, and I have no clue what you're trying to get at.

Maybe it's because I haven't played with him before, IDK, but you won't have my vote anytime soon.

That's fine. I'm more confident on drmy being scum anyway.

I'm not understanding everyone's townread on him though. Maybe I am being biased due to his read on me, but his logic + attack on my Venmar read seems pretty scummy to me.

[Code_X]

Don't get me wrong Tech I accept people to have strong town-reads in a setup like this, but what I don't like is the fact that bar the Shotgun sheeping you don't seem to be actively hunting scum.

As for my meta. Your widely mistaken. I just lost a game in lylo as town because I was too determined in my reads and pidgeon holed a newb as town who got lynched as town. People's meta changes - it can be used obviously but at the same time what's happening in this game is more important.

[Soben]

Tech, you're being completely biased - and I explained my town read on him in great depth. Plus his attack on your Venmar town read makes a lot of sense and I agree with it (It being that no ongoing games meta can legitimately lead to a strong town read on Venmar in this particular game given his play and given his history).

Anyway, here's where I'm sitting right now;

Town (S->W):

RedPanda, Code_X, Potak, McStab, VE, Tech

Null:

Chrimi, Shotgun

Scum (S->W):

Andrew, Rainbow, TAM

I'm getting a super bad headache and the medicine I've taken hasn't helped at all - fairly sure I'm at the start of a terrible fever so expect my posting to cut down massively in the next few days - hopefully Scumhunter picks up on the posting for me alongside with PMs me his thoughts.

[TeChNoWC]

~...... Yeah techno, you won't have my support on a Code_X lynch, that's for sure. He looks pretty town in my eyes, and I have no clue what you're trying to get at.

Maybe it's because I haven't played with him before, IDK, but you won't have my vote anytime soon.

How exactly does Code look town?

If you have a townread on me, and the majority of Code's posting in this game has been about me being scummy (albeit, I drew him further into the conversation, I know), then what exactly makes Code look town?

Pedit: granted, but scumhunting only limits to those we find scummy. I wasn't lax at all on scumhunting drmy; bork, more so, but I actually do fear my read on him might just be bouncing off Om, so I am not as confident. But I provided reasons why he was at least pinging my scumdar.

There has been a lot of apathy for this game and minimal scumhunting. I am now in my

ninth

active game; so if bouncing of Om's reads, who I feel was being majorly productive, is how I feel I can be most productive in this game, I won't hesitate to do so. I can't be as active as some and I give attention to games as I feel I need to (prioritize). Om had this one under control and I was happy with that. Why the fuck he has decided to flake I don't know.

Pedit: I need to go away and consider this. If everyone feels Code is town I submit that bias may be getting the better of me. Doing some rereading.

[TeChNoWC]

Last pedit was a PP-edit