Open 418 - Friends and Fun Times at the Fair (Game Over)

[Rainbowdash]

I have no clue about Chrimi except that I know im really good at mislynching him while forcing town win as we can see.

He is near the middle section of my reads. Unlike Arugla he doesnt need to die right now but he probably doesnt make it to endgame if he is VT. I just would rather lynch in my order because if im right I actually can start gainig a little bit of credit and maybe not get mislynched here, im in it for self-preservation to an extent but that doesnt mean im just going to vote anypony because a couple mislynches easily could shake the foundation of strong town reads that are supposed to win us the game.

[Soben]

a couple mislynches easily could shake the foundation of strong town reads that are supposed to win us the game.

Explain this for me, because how I'm reading it is "If we mslynch a few times I'm going to kill the town cred of my strong town reads".

[Arugula]

Rainbow completed ignored my response to his post (one of his points on me) and still wants my lynch. Your vote on me isn't productive.

[Soben]

He's also ignored about 80% of the other things that have gone on in the game. He needs to hang but there isn't the support for it today I don't think so Chrimi first.

[VisceraEyes]

Okay, everything is falling apart. I'm going to reread.

-.-

I thought this was all sewn up. :/

[Rainbowdash]

a couple mislynches easily could shake the foundation of strong town reads that are supposed to win us the game.

Explain this for me, because how I'm reading it is "If we mslynch a few times I'm going to kill the town cred of my strong town reads".

Basically.

Even if we are right in our town reads, if we mislynch the first couple days its going to really damage the belief in those town reads being right. Given im town and lets be honest, you are going to want me dead no matter what Chrimi flips or what I do, im going to be pushing where I think we need to be because if im right and get scum lynched today, its going to stop the inevitable massive questioning of reads which should be borderline obv-town when I get lynched.

Chrimi town is going to be a disaster that from where I am sitting can see coming, so im going to fight it from happening when im not at all sold on him being scum here. If he is town, im getting mislynched next, we are down two masons, two town, and everything is going to start threatening to fall apart. We should seriously lynch Arugula today instead, and if Chrimi has any form of a town read on me should be following along right now.

@Arugula - Your entire response to my case was essentially "nope" or "I disagree". Not sre how im supposed to craft a beautful response to that one.

[Mortontfrh]

Vote Count 1.13

With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Chrimi

(3) - The Acting Method, Soben, Arugula

McStab

(3) - Drmyshotgun, Potack-Ruv, Chrimi

RainbowDash

(2) - Code_X, VisceraEyes

VisceraEyes

(1) - RedPanda

Soben

(1) - andrew94

Code_X

(1) - TechnoWC

Arugula

(1) - RainbowDash

Potack-Ruv

(1) - Mcstab


Not Voting:
V/LA: RedPanda - June 28th until June 30th

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-07-07 16:41:00)

[Arugula]

But your main point on me is that I am setting up a justified bandwagon hop, when I listed you and TAM as scumreads already and it was obvious my andrew vote wasn't permanent.

[Soben]

See, that's heavily flawed Rainbow. For instance VE/Code are obvtown now, us mslynching at any point isn't going to make them less obvtown.

Also what you're pretty much saying is that you're going to be doing whatever you can no-matter-what to stop Chrimi being lynched today - that just strengthens the fact that I think you're both scum together rather than anything else. Lets be honest; if you were as confident in your town-reads as I am in mine you wouldn't worry about playing self-preservation-based at all since even if you get lynched you'd be confident in a win at the end of the day; you'd be focusing on explaining reads in depth whether town or scum to make sure that people understand them and at the end of the day agree with them, that's not what you're doing though. It's really not, instead you're playing the whole 'im town guise, listen to your gut!' sort of play which makes a great deal of sense coming from scum attempting to save themselves.

Not just that though; your read on RP hasn't even been explained but you're insisting on it being sheeped, you state a scum-read on me or consideration that I'm scum (Which I'm pretty sure is impossible to come from you as town given how obvious/apparent my town vs scum meta is) while at the same time appealing to me and you've got Code_X thrown into the 'lynch later' pile when his entrance post comes across as incredibly obvtown - not just that though you have a 'null' read on Chrimi when his voting pattern is incredibly opportunistic.

[andrew94]

im a mason.

shotgun is my partner.

TAM is also my partner, i think TAM is trying to protect shotgun
or something? but trust me, the mafia arent that stupid.


ok i think we should lynch Visceraeyes. (before chrimi, dont even know why we're voting him)
look at his last few posts


whos mason
whos mason
whos mason
whos mason

unvote vote visceraeayes

[Rainbowdash]

But your main point on me is that I am setting up a justified bandwagon hop, when I listed you and TAM as scumreads already and it was obvious my andrew vote wasn't permanent.

Thats kinda my point. You are not committing strongly to any wagon but at the same time are making enough of a commitment to anypony who picks up any form of suspicion that you can easily jump on them but still are not going to look awkward if something happens like the TAM mason claim.

The way you are playing you go along with everything just enough such that you are able to do basically anything with major wagons while being able to look back and point at it. I dont think there is anything at all out of the status quo with a read of yours, town or scum. If everypony thinks a player is scum, we can be sure to find you agreeing. If somepony is town, you back up that read as well.

You arent scumhuntnig but just following along with popular opinion putting your vote where it most suits you. With the now Chrimi vote (lol what?) im almost to the point where I say he is probably town and you are scum trying to be able to get him mislynched and then sheep along the inveitable momentum to my lynch leading up to the complete distrust of everything when we were in such a great position but mislynched out the gate twice.

@Soben - I dont like getting lynched so im not going to be "okay with it" ever unless its something where I entirely trust town to be able to put together a forced win. Closest I have come is 1310 where I figured MoI as last scum and essentially was able to argue everypony else confirmed town, even then I didnt roll over and got him lynched first.

I have played more than enough games to know that mislynches start making everypony question their reads, and have played enough to know that dead townie reads dont always get listened to. Im not at all confident in the ability of town to actually put this together if Chrimi is town. What happens if you mislynch Chrimi, and then me, and the lets just say DMS or something. Well now its lylo... lets say only dead are masons. Then what? I dont believe that you dont at all start questioning those reads, everypony does.

Also I dont think I have played with you-scum so im not sure what meta you are trying to draw (although your avtar keeps making me confuse you with old school player Huntress).

RP is scum mostly for his early play regarding the VT thing which has a high chance of getting a newbie-mason reaction out of fear, I think even I woud have reacted most as mason. Then he stays on TAM for odd reasoning, and eventually votes abast for repalcing out. At that stage in the game thats all he has in form of a vote is somepony replacing out. He calls DMS-town (which if RP is scum is true) and apart from that he just doesnt do anything on the town or scumhunting process at all. Most of what he does could possibly damage town depending on who reacts and how.

[Soben]

Andrew, VE is obvtown. Like really really really obvtown.

Him pushing for the mason information is to clear things up; it's not a scum-tell at all, it's a town-tell instead. As scum he'd already know that both of them claiming to be partners with you makes you the common denominator and therefore wouldn't have a care in the world as he'd just NK you tonight.

[andrew94]

Andrew, VE is obvtown. Like really really really obvtown.

Him pushing for the mason information is to clear things up; it's not a scum-tell at all, it's a town-tell instead. As scum he'd already know that both of them claiming to be partners with you makes you the common denominator and therefore wouldn't have a care in the world as he'd just NK you tonight.

no but he thought shotgun wasnt and he was trying to find the 'third'

[VisceraEyes]

Because there are three in the OP and if one of you was lying then you were scum Andrew -.-

[VisceraEyes]

Okay, so that makes 3 masons. Luckily, only ONE of my serious scumreads was them. :/

Okay so that leaves me with :

VisceraEyes
drmyShotgun
andrew94
The Acting Method
Soben
Code_X

TeChNoWC
McStab
Arugula

Potack-ruv

Chrimi
RedPanda

RainbowDash

....yeah, okay. If there isn't support for the pony, I can consolidate on Chrimi, based on PoE alone. :/

But I'm talking...there has to be like NO support for the pony.

[VisceraEyes]

Actually, Aru should be black now...but yeah, that about sums up my reads.

[Soben]

@Soben - I dont like getting lynched so im not going to be "okay with it" ever unless its something where I entirely trust town to be able to put together a forced win. Closest I have come is 1310 where I figured MoI as last scum and essentially was able to argue everypony else confirmed town, even then I didnt roll over and got him lynched first.

I have played more than enough games to know that mislynches start making everypony question their reads, and have played enough to know that dead townie reads dont always get listened to. Im not at all confident in the ability of town to actually put this together if Chrimi is town. What happens if you mislynch Chrimi, and then me, and the lets just say DMS or something. Well now its lylo... lets say only dead are masons. Then what? I dont believe that you dont at all start questioning those reads, everypony does.

Also I dont think I have played with you-scum so im not sure what meta you are trying to draw (although your avtar keeps making me confuse you with old school player Huntress).

RP is scum mostly for his early play regarding the VT thing which has a high chance of getting a newbie-mason reaction out of fear, I think even I woud have reacted most as mason. Then he stays on TAM for odd reasoning, and eventually votes abast for repalcing out. At that stage in the game thats all he has in form of a vote is somepony replacing out. He calls DMS-town (which if RP is scum is true) and apart from that he just doesnt do anything on the town or scumhunting process at all. Most of what he does could possibly damage town depending on who reacts and how.

1) Not asking you to 'just lie down'. I'm asking you to focus on other things rather than just self-preservative play
2) Strong town reads are still strong town reads even after a mslynch or two. Sure it's natural for people to re-look at things but that's still going to lead towards them being town-reads at the end of the day; ie. they're not going to be lynched over scummy players.
3) You've played with me as scum, in fact we've been scum partners (Farsides #1 game - I've only been scum a few times since then and haven't been scum in almost a year now I think) and you've played with me as town in this exact hydra a few months ago (Maybe longer?) alongside with playing with me on Baseline in another open game. So you should be fully aware of what my playstyle is like.
4) The VT thing he did in a marathon game, if needed I'll find the link. He was town and claimed a role randomly to get peoples reactions and reads from it, it's his ice-breaker sort of system to get into games as town and his TAM attack was clearly a ball-roller and pressure tester.

PEdit: Andrew, if he thought that you/shotgun were the masons then him wanting the third to out is completely logical. A mason death would be the case N1/N2 regardless there and it will become incredibly apparent who the mason is from your interactions in them. Like incredibly obvious therefore him pushing for the outage of it to have a better idea of how to scumhunt PoE based as well as completely verify your claim is very understandable.

[VisceraEyes]

Also Soben, Code-X isn't as obvTown to me as he is to you...his initial posts and votes gave me town feeling, but his activity since has kinda had an air of "let shit bubble in the thread"...which is null to me, but doesn't bode well for as obvTown as I thought he was initiallly. Same kinda deal with RP....and look where RP is on my list. :/

[Soben]

Code-X only replaced in 24ish hours ago and since then he hasn't really posted anything significant in alternate games or anything - ie. he's just busy so the 'activity issue since then' isn't one at all. And RedPanda is on V/LA right now so that's that inactivity as well.

[VisceraEyes]

Yes well, I also replaced in 24ish hours ago. :/

[Soben]

Yes, and now you have the 4th/5th highest post count in the thread. It's less everyone else being inactive and more us just being super active.

[VisceraEyes]

Fair enough.

My reread didn't really bring anything new forward. I really still prefer a Rainbow lynch to a Chrimi lynch.

[McStab]

So it turns out I'm going out tonight, won't have a chance to make my in-depth lengthy post. I assure you it's coming, but I can't get it by tonight. For now, this is how I see things:

Town

drmyshotgun
andrew
TAM
VisceraEyes
Soben

Null

Code_X
TechnoWC
Potack
Arugula
RedPanda

Scum

RainbowDash
Chrimi

Proper analysis will follow tomorrow.

Unvote

until I can do a full re-read.

[TeChNoWC]

Wow, a lot of activity since I have been gone. One fucking night I am gone and already two fresh bandwagons.

I'll reread and post up when I get home but firstly I want to ask; what is with all this talk about masons claiming D1? Is everyone thick or something?

STOP ROLEFISHING.

Surely the merits of an andrew/drmy masonry 'softclaim' will be revealed in due time. No need to out ALL the PR's on D1 just for lols.

[drmyshotgun]

McStab is better than me. I'm ashamed :/

Willing to get behind Chrimi lynch.