Open 417: Chosen Mafia - Heaven and Hell - Game Over!

[Giitah]

btw, Arugula, a good way to get your question answered (which I could barely find myself) might include reposting the thing and prodding him with links; you reek of trying to get something to attack him with by not doing so.

[TeChNoWC]

there are 2 scum.

sooner or later you gotta have other people on your lynch list. AND NO IM NOT FORCING YOU TO GO ON WAGON ANALYISIS. just by the thread so far from what you read.

the second you dont have them and i flip town or chosen you're in a big hole.

what about arugala/psyche/or tech?

Why are you so worried about Thor having other scumreads? Trying to reduce flak?

The fact that Thor was on L-2 wagon twice is such a fallible and weak argument that I would think almost anything is better. We are still early in the day and I agree there isn't much to go on. But, the point is: random votes, hypothetical questions, pokings to see reactions may all display a conclusion that someone is a scum. BUT the differences are: random vote is not to be taken seriously and pokings and hypothetical questions are there to incite responses. Your framed your conclusion to be based on factual premises - as if they were actually of substance

Agreed. Arugula's reasoning on Thor is poor. Those screaming 'chosen' I feel are using it as an easy means to discredit those on their case.

@Giitah: dicknose is null. Needs to comment more.
Townvibes from Thor and Near
Kcdaspot leaning scum
Arugula has poor logic, and usually has good logic in most games. I smell a rat. ISoing tonight.

[Kcdaspot]

near is a waffle. and scum.

[Arugula]

How is saying confirmed instead of chosen scummy?

And bad play does not mean scum.

Near means scum.

[Giitah]

How is saying confirmed instead of chosen scummy?

And bad play does not mean scum.

Near means scum.

Thought process. Saying you're 'confirmed' instead of 'chosen' is a Freudian slip; it shows you wanted people to believe you're confirmed town. And once again you comment without making any content; explain why he's scum pl0z.
Techno, I'd like to hear why you think Near is town, actually.

[TeChNoWC]

@Giitah: Bold in giving his reads. Backs up his reads. His push on Thor seemed genuine and town motivated. I have Thor pegged as town, and I can't see scum-Near pushing a Thor lynch and then backing out VERY quickly. Call it WIFOM but I don't see scum-Near making that move. Plus his reads on Kcdaspot and Arugula sit right with me. Only thing that worries me is if he is being opportunist (should both Kcdaspot and Arugula be town), but I don't think this is the case, at least not for both of them. And while I don't like his idea that if you are scum then Thor is your likely partner (I can't see scum buddying that badly), he is right in that Thor's defence of you is poor.

I don't really agree with your 'Freudian slip' logic. If that's why you think Arugula is scum, that's pretty dodgy. And no, Arugula, poor logic =/= scum. Meta, meta, meta. A player with poor logic who is usually logical is slightly more likely to be scum, because they have to shift their usual scumhunting goodness towards backing up mislynches. And I'm not buying your cases on Thor or Near.

Slip. I NEVER mentioned anything about you saying 'confirmed' was a scumtell. I don't like this whole idea that 'two early D1 bandwagons = scum trying to kill the chosen'. Far too blatant and a good excuse to cry innocent and gather towny points, plus try and make others look scummy.

At the moment though I am having doubts that both Arugula and Kcdaspot are scum together. While it seems this may be the case (particularly with Arugula trying a save on Kcdaspot by calling him chosen and Thor scummy), it does seem too blatant. I know that in a recently finished scumgame Arugula heavily buddied his scummates, but that was as a mafia traitor (makes sense to try not to get NK'd). I'm not sure what he usually does as scum outside of that game.

@Arugula: Do you have any other scum meta?
@Near: If one of Kcd or Arugula flipped town, would you assume the other is town? And that Giitah and Thor are the likely scumteam?

[Thor665]

@Thor
Who are your three town reads? Myself, Techno and...

I will answer this, but will note that I am unpleased with your reading comprehension.

Near is the third.

@Giitah - your read on Kcdaspot?

[Giitah]

@Thor
My initial thoughts on him haven't changed -- his opening play was damn scummy and I don't see him surviving past day 2. He hasn't redeemed himself since, either; he'd make a fine sight on the noose for tonight.

@Near
Do you always try to call the scumteam in 9p games, or is this something new? Meta evidence would be nice.

[Arugula]

Tech, I replaced into this game D1 for Political Clout and was scum. My partner was Praetyre.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=21718

Here you go.

[Thor665]

^^ (now with a new post you need to skip past Arugula back to Giitah) I functionally already did this, but would like to point out another example of legit scumhunting from Giitah that makes my read on him correct.

I'm going to make a Thor/Tech/Near/Giitah town coallition of win and eat the scum team this game.

[Dazzy]

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch)

(2)[L-3]Kcdaspot - TeChNoWC, Thor665,
(2)[L-3]Near - Kcdaspot, Arugula
(2)[L-3]Arugula - Near, Giitah,

(1)Hyperion - dicknose,

Not voting(2/9)(Shattered Viewpoint, Hyperion,)

:

Deadline

: July 16, 2012

Other Notes:

• Hyperion replaces Psyche effective immediately. Please welcome him. Thank you Hyperion for helping out!

[Thor665]

Shattered Viewpoint and Hyperion need votes in play, the current wagon situation is awesome otherwise.

[Hyperion]

OK, hi everyone, I am Hyperion, replacing Psyche, I have a busy day today, so I will not be able to post for the next 10 hours or so. But when I come back, I will do ISOs.

[Thor665]

Good, ISOs are totally the best thing ever and I always read then from people who replace in - reading the thread as it happened with all the interactions easily connected is so passe'.

[Giitah]

Hi Hyperion, it'll be a pleasure to play with you again.

^^ (now with a new post you need to skip past Arugula back to Giitah) I functionally already did this, but would like to point out another example of legit scumhunting from Giitah that makes my read on him correct.

I'm going to make a Thor/Tech/Near/Giitah town coallition of win and eat the scum team this game.

Uh, Thor, so if you checked up on Near, then do you have some meta experience with whether or not he always tries to do that?

[Thor665]

I don't think you understood my sentence at all - I was confirming you in a way additional to the one I'd already done.
I don't think I've ever played with Near prior to this, this is almost an entirely new playerlist for me (save for Kcdaspot and dicknose...and maybe Arugula, though I'm not certain on that one)

[Giitah]

I functionally already did this

By that, I assume you mean that you had already asked

kay, I ISO'd and ctrl+f and lo behold, yeah, you already asked Near for some recent town games. That's what you were referring to by this, I assume.

Btw, I'm amused to see you saying 'unpleased' in the same sentence where you berate me for my reading comprehension (post 156). Do you always speak in archaic English from about a century into the past?

Vote kcdaspot

might as well set the wagons straighter, besides, this is where I want my vote to stand at the end of today anyway assuming nothing else happens.

[Thor665]

I fail to grok how using Olde English somehow makes it odd that I decry poor reading skills - indeed, it seems rather a likely pairing as you've identified me as a likely lover of reading/the written word/language.
Derp. <-- not Auld English.

I like the new vote though, you can stay in the alliance of win because you amuse me...and are pretty bleedingly town too.

[TeChNoWC]

Thor, I'm not terribly big on alliances. Alliances allow scum to flake and coast, and while I feel confident you and Near are town, that doesn't mean we should be tunneling on everyone else. I would rather keep an open mind. Plus I am not as confident on town-Giitah as you seem to be.

@Mod: votecount please?

[Thor665]

I'll agree on the coast, but would counter that it wouldn't be a change from the coasting every other player is doing thus far.
Still, if you think hope springs eternal I'll give you a chance to be disappointed in due course.

Is the Giitah read a scum read, or just a null read not yet sold on one way or the tuther?

[Hyperion]

Hi sorry, its past midnight so not a lot of time to do anything indepth. But at a glance:
KCDaspot's "hey guys there is already a wagon on me I must be chosen" was stupid, because scum wouldnt be stupid enough to wagon a chosen on page 3. Also
And really, if you are gonna try to call someone out for lurking, wait until after page 3.

[Hyperion]

OK beginning my ISOs, going down the player list, first is Arugala:
- Vote for Thor was horrible, just because he is on two quick wagons doesn't make him scum, especially when one of those wagons was RVS.
- Immediately jumps on to KCdaspot's "Near is all over the place" post, seems like he is trying to discredit the person who thinks he is scum.
- Post 148 is a BS attempt to make a case to cover up an OMGUS vote
OVERALL:
Scummy, His votes are backed by crap logic and OMGUS

[Hyperion]

Near:
+ Case against Arugala looks sound
+ Points out Techno's townslip, willing to narrow the suspect pool.
- All over the place with his reads
OVERALL:
Null, slightly leaning town

Got stuff to do, back in a few hours.

[TeChNoWC]

I'll agree on the coast, but would counter that it wouldn't be a change from the coasting every other player is doing thus far.
Still, if you think hope springs eternal I'll give you a chance to be disappointed in due course.

Is the Giitah read a scum read, or just a null read not yet sold on one way or the tuther?

Simply null at the moment, undecided. Leaning town by sheer gut.

What do you mean by "I'll give you a chance to be disappointed in due course"?

[Thor665]

Thinking that people will lurk less.