Open 420: Medical Mafia - That's all, folks!

[Zachrulez]

Ya but if that is just his 'style', as you put it, wouldn't it just be a null tell?

But I do agree it is annoying.

Not in this case, there's no established meta that this is how he normally plays.

Incidentally I suspect the account is an alt and that whoever is playing this alt knows exactly what they are doing.

[izakthegoomba]

Votecount 1.04

Robocopter87 (2) - RachMarie, Venmar
Time Traveling Scumhunter (2) - FightingShadow, Zachrulez
Jackal711 (1) - FuDuzn
RachMarie (1) - Mortontfrh
Zachrulez (1) - Time Traveling Scumhunter
FuDuzn (0) -

none

Mortontfrh (0) -

none

FightingShadow (0) -

none

Venmar (0) -

none

No Lynch (0) -

none

Not voting (1) - Robocopter87, Jackal711

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Jackal711 is V/LA until Thursday 5th July

The deadline is in (expired on 2012-07-19 04:21:01).

[Mortontfrh]

Ya but if that is just his 'style', as you put it, wouldn't it just be a null tell?

But I do agree it is annoying.

Not in this case, there's no established meta that this is how he normally plays.

Incidentally I suspect the account is an alt and that whoever is playing this alt knows exactly what they are doing.

How is this indicative of his alignment? Are you saying that he created this alt account just so that way if he got a scum role he could post in an annoying fashion in order to be deceptive?

Vote: ZachRulez

- I really can't understand why everyone is ignoring Rach's behavior, but until people stop letting scum lurk then my vote on her is just dead weight and this is a wagon I can get aboard.

[Zachrulez]

Ya but if that is just his 'style', as you put it, wouldn't it just be a null tell?

But I do agree it is annoying.

Not in this case, there's no established meta that this is how he normally plays.

Incidentally I suspect the account is an alt and that whoever is playing this alt knows exactly what they are doing.

How is this indicative of his alignment? Are you saying that he created this alt account just so that way if he got a scum role he could post in an annoying fashion in order to be deceptive?

No I don't think that it was planned upon alt creation. I do think now that he's in the game the reason for posting the way he has been is strategic. If you postulate it's strategic, can you make a reasonable argument for this posting style being pro-town?

Vote: ZachRulez

- I really can't understand why everyone is ignoring Rach's behavior, but until people stop letting scum lurk then my vote on her is just dead weight and this is a wagon I can get aboard.

I can't so your point of view so imma vote you. Good thinking there man.

[Mortontfrh]

No I don't think that it was planned upon alt creation. I do think now that he's in the game the reason for posting the way he has been is strategic. If you postulate it's strategic, can you make a reasonable argument for this posting style being pro-town?

I don't see how it's strategic at all. I think he came into this game planning on typing like that regardless of alignment - that's kind of how niche alt accounts work. What world do you live in where people create an alt account like that and then make their posting decision dependent on their alignment?

I can't so your point of view so imma vote you. Good thinking there man.

Yeah, that's absolutely 100% the reason I voted you. It had absolutely nothing to do with your scummy OMGUS followed up with a half-baked follow up explanation.

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, a player is posting under a self imposed post restriction as an excuse to do very little and it's not a scumtell at all!

[Mortontfrh]

Yeah, a player is posting under a self imposed post restriction as an excuse to do very little and it's not a scumtell at all!

You're implying that this was a conscious choice after getting his role. You're aware that this means that you think that he created an alt account with that name, received his role PM, and just said "Hey, I guess i've got a nice name that will allow me to post in a convoluted manner just to confuse people!".

Sure it's an infinitesimally small possibility, but it's a far stretch from the logical conclusion that this posting style was the premise behind his alt account to begin with. The fact that you jump to such a stretch in the first place just to validify your OMGUS vote (Which had some poor reasoning to begin with) is incredibly scummy.

Moving forward - Why do you see the lack of scum hunting from Time Traveling Scumhunter problematic but you make no comment on the lack of scum hunting from Rach, Shadow, Jackal or literally half of the player base? Are you implying that it's only scummy to not scum hunt if you do it in an obscure manner?

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, a player is posting under a self imposed post restriction as an excuse to do very little and it's not a scumtell at all!

You're implying that this was a conscious choice after getting his role. You're aware that this means that you think that he created an alt account with that name, received his role PM, and just said "Hey, I guess i've got a nice name that will allow me to post in a convoluted manner just to confuse people!".

Sure it's an infinitesimally small possibility, but it's a far stretch from the logical conclusion that this posting style was the premise behind his alt account to begin with. The fact that you jump to such a stretch in the first place just to validify your OMGUS vote (Which had some poor reasoning to begin with) is incredibly scummy.

Moving forward - Why do you see the lack of scum hunting from Time Traveling Scumhunter problematic but you make no comment on the lack of scum hunting from Rach, Shadow, Jackal or literally half of the player base? Are you implying that it's only scummy to not scum hunt if you do it in an obscure manner?

Yeah I'm annoyed now because I have to depart from the way that I usually play and make an effort to actually explain something that should have been obvious the first time I raised it as a point.

It's not the aspect of how he's choosing to post, it's the actual content of what's in the post. (Which aside from the tunnelvision on me is a big giant black hole of nothing.)

A demonstration:

Stuff about Zach: Blah blah blah blah, lots of stuff.

Stuff about anyone or anything else: Big fat 0.

Presume I get lynched and flip town, what is my lynch going to tell you about what Mr. Time Traveler thinks about anything else in this game? Absolutely nothing. THAT'S THE POINT I'm making here.

The thematic style of what he's posting really isn't relevant. My assertion that he's using it to hide a black hole of nothing is.

This is really the first major trinket of anything I've really had to go on. My reads have been in flux because there's really been a whole lot of nothing going on, and I'm disliking what Time Traveler is doing because all he's doing is focusing on one of the most active players in the game, (IE: Me) which is going to have a net effect of encouraging players to continue doing exactly what they are doing.

I haven't really found anyone's lack of activity particularly noteworthy aside from that. Rach's claiming real life issues, and I was going to call her on the fact that she's been active on site and in other games, but I located a post where she said the same thing in another game, so I'm somewhat uneasy about her, but eh... I'm not going to doubt that she has too much on her plate at present time.

Shadow's done next to nothing, but that's on par with his site activity at present time. I'm expecting him to flake out, if he deliberately avoids doing that for an extended period of time while maintaining this level of nothing, I'll become more interested in him really quickly.

Jackal I've already covered. My read on him is in flux cause he pretty much just waffled rather than explain his vote on Fuduzn. I don't know if he was retreating from that position as scum or if he's just playing really really weak. I'm frustrated with that.

Everyone else. Dunno, I'd say my strongest townread is Robo, and that venmar is a town lean read. I'd say leaning town on Fuduzn and you as well. (Which is why I am irritated with your vote right now.)

That would be where I'm at. Of the low activity players right now, Time Traveler seems to be the most invested in what he's doing (Vs everyone else lack of investment which is more null to me than anything.) and I don't like it at all because what he seems to be invested in doesn't look productive to me in the least.

[Mortontfrh]

Yeah I'm annoyed now because I have to depart from the way that I usually play and make an effort to actually explain something that should have been obvious the first time I raised it as a point.

It's not the aspect of how he's choosing to post, it's the actual content of what's in the post. (Which aside from the tunnelvision on me is a big giant black hole of nothing.)

A demonstration:

Stuff about Zach: Blah blah blah blah, lots of stuff.

Stuff about anyone or anything else: Big fat 0.

Presume I get lynched and flip town, what is my lynch going to tell you about what Mr. Time Traveler thinks about anything else in this game? Absolutely nothing. THAT'S THE POINT I'm making here.

The thematic style of what he's posting really isn't relevant. My assertion that he's using it to hide a black hole of nothing is.

So you're conceding the fact that the way in which he's posting isn't relevant, then why did you even bring it up in the first place? If your contention is with his tunneling then explanations like this and this are just moot points that you threw in there just to make your non-existent case look a little bigger. To clarify further: In both of those posts you're saying that the posting style itself is what's problematic but now you're back tracking into saying that you think the content within those posts is what the problem is.

In fact, this is your first mention of you having a problem with him tunnel visioning on you.

If that was your major contention with his play style why are you just mentioning it now and not when you actually voted for him?

This is really the first major trinket of anything I've really had to go on. My reads have been in flux because there's really been a whole lot of nothing going on, and I'm disliking what Time Traveler is doing because all he's doing is focusing on one of the most active players in the game, (IE: Me) which is going to have a net effect of encouraging players to continue doing exactly what they are doing.

So you think that scum would look for the most active player that they can get into an argument with? What purpose does that serve in an extremely lurk heavy game? Explain to me how this is actually a scum tell, because i'm not seeing it.

[Zachrulez]

Morton, I think you have a very different idea of what I'm attacking vs what I'm actually attacking. I can see where you're getting the conclusion, but I'm having a hard time trying to bridge the separation we apparently have on the matter.

I'm not conceding anything I actually posted, I just think you're in a different place on what I'm posting vs what I'm actually trying to convey.

[RachMarie]

Mort tends to have tunnel vision. He almost always assumes I am scum even when proven wrong.

Meanwhile I want to hear more from Robo, now that Venmar spoke. I really do have a method to my madness even if it is not fully apparent off the bat.

I am a big picture person and I work hard to peg everyone as soon as I can, leaving room of course for some major scum tells. So it is not set in stone town or scum especially this early, however it gives me a good guideline of who is likely scum and who is likely not scum.

Mort, on the other hand, has a very straight for the jugular approach on one person and not let go til they are dead.

Yes I have been having RL issues and I am working hard to keep up with my games. Looks like I won't be going V/LA though, since my dad will not be able to come down after all before starting chemo and radiation therapy on Thursday.

[Mortontfrh]

Rach - Link to me a single game i've played with you that i've tunneled you when you didn't flip scum.

[RachMarie]

you mean besides this one?

[Mortontfrh]

Are you saying you're incapable of linking to a single game where i've tunneled you and you didn't flip scum?

So which part of your ass did you pull this from then?

Mort tends to have tunnel vision. He almost always assumes I am scum even when proven wrong.

[Zachrulez]

How many games have you guys played together?

[Mortontfrh]

2 - This one which she flipped scum in. And this one where I made one comment about her from the time she replaced in until she died the first night.

[Zachrulez]

Well this just got a lot more interesting.

[Mortontfrh]

Morton, I think you have a very different idea of what I'm attacking vs what I'm actually attacking. I can see where you're getting the conclusion, but I'm having a hard time trying to bridge the separation we apparently have on the matter.

I'm not conceding anything I actually posted, I just think you're in a different place on what I'm posting vs what I'm actually trying to convey.

I can see where you're coming from in your most recent posts, I just think it's more likely that you're backtracking out of your contradiction rather than actually having that mindset going into your vote. Regardless the chance that you're being genuine is enough for me to get back on board Rach, especially with her awful reappearance into this game.

Mort tends to have tunnel vision. He almost always assumes I am scum even when proven wrong.

To further emphasize what I said above, this is just flat out not true.

Meanwhile I want to hear more from Robo, now that Venmar spoke. I really do have a method to my madness even if it is not fully apparent off the bat.

Hear more from him regarding what? Completely ignoring the fact that this was something that could have actually been addressed when it was relevant, just overtly stating "I want to hear more from him" isn't actually trying to hear more from him. I mean if you actually wanted to hear more from him you know that you could actually ask him a question directly, right?

Unvote

Vote: RachMarie

Please don't let her scuminess in her last couple of posts get ignored please.

[Venmar]

Mort tends to have tunnel vision. He almost always assumes I am scum even when proven wrong.

- Does this make him scum? If so, how does this make Morton scum? Given i think this statement has been declared untrue, Tunnel Vision is not a scum tell, and you can find townies or town players tunnel visioning people who they find scum. It is usually a null tell, and in this situation i feel like it is because Morton has been paying attention to me and others, so he isn't necessarily "blindly", as to say, tunnel visioning.

I want to hear more from Robo, now that Venmar spoke. I really do have a method to my madness even if it is not fully apparent off the bat.

- What do you want to hear from Robo? What have i said that has satisfied you? You never really asked me much ( actually, only one ) questions, so what gives? Also, i will take your self meta as such and i will treat as such, a null tell. Self Meta does not equal town or scum.

I have been having RL issues and I am working hard to keep up with my games. Looks like I won't be going V/LA though, since my dad will not be able to come down after all before starting chemo and radiation therapy on Thursday.

- I am very sorry to hear that. I hope everything goes down the right path for y'all and get through with it. On a more serious note though, don't take this the wrong way, I don't like it when people try to justify them lurking or not reading the thread, it is kind of a scum tell in my eyes. ( especially since you never mentioned this before i think, or announced a V/LA ).

----

Rach, how come you aren't voting for Morton if you think that he is scummy? If you think he is, i definitely think that is where your vote is deserved, and not being confident in what you say is suspicious. From what i have seen so far, I think you are the best case as of right now, and for that reason i feel like my vote deserves to be put on you.

Vote: Rachmarie

@Venmar: You have something more important to talk about?

- No, I don't really have much to add on the things that have been going on before I brought up the Rach and Morton thing. Although i find TTS's way of posting and accusations hilarious, and I think saying that his play style is a method of covering up scummy play is ridiculous. While annoying, it is kind of like saying ( don't mean to pick on anyone, just an example ) Rainbowdash's way of saying "pony" is a specific method to cover up alignment.

[Jackal711]

Popping in to

VOTE: RachMarie

I've seen her as town and scum (I was also in that newbie game that Morton linked where she flipped scum) and am getting mostly scum-vibes from her posts so far.

[Mortontfrh]

My plans are shaping up for me being a little busy over the next couple of days hanging out with my roommates with 4th of July. Just in case it renders me hungover or without computer access; V/LA

[Mortontfrh]

Piece of shit computer...
My plans are shaping up for me being a little busy over the next couple of days hanging out with my roommates with 4th of July. Just in case it renders me hungover or without computer access;

V/LA until the 5th

.

[Robocopter87]

Mort tends to have tunnel vision. He almost always assumes I am scum even when proven wrong.

Meanwhile I want to hear more from Robo, now that Venmar spoke. I really do have a method to my madness even if it is not fully apparent off the bat.

I am a big picture person and I work hard to peg everyone as soon as I can, leaving room of course for some major scum tells. So it is not set in stone town or scum especially this early, however it gives me a good guideline of who is likely scum and who is likely not scum.

Mort, on the other hand, has a very straight for the jugular approach on one person and not let go til they are dead.

Yes I have been having RL issues and I am working hard to keep up with my games. Looks like I won't be going V/LA though, since my dad will not be able to come down after all before starting chemo and radiation therapy on Thursday.

What I read from this,

"I don't have a response to Mort so I'm going to deflect to Robo. I am scumhunting, you just don't know it."

The last part though i don't mind. Your activity level is non indicative of your alignment. I know your in a rough spot. Still calling you out though. Sorry.

Popping in to

VOTE: RachMarie

I've seen her as town and scum (I was also in that newbie game that Morton linked where she flipped scum) and am getting mostly scum-vibes from her posts so far.

This vote is pathetic.

@Mort: You really are throwing your vote around. What gives? You were voting Zach and then the next thing I know you are calling him town.

[RachMarie]

Where on earth did I say his tunnel vision is scummy I did not. However if you look at the other game he so graciously pointed out, you will find that he pushed a fair bit on my predecessor (Field Armada), and he continued a pattern of tunneling on other players til he was lynched.

Both the games he and I were in he was town. I think he is town but not looking at the big picture and tunneling too much.

[RachMarie]

You have satisfied my concerns already Robo based on your responses there.

Venmar on the other hand, and Jackal.....

This is twice someone just slipped in with a 3rd vote no case just sheepin along.

I am going to look at both Venmar and Jackal closely.