Mini 1349: Words with Scum (Game over!)

[IceGuy]

People who have not used their flip today should use it now.

That's an incredibly insightful post.

Not.

[Robocopter87]

People who have not used their flip today should use it now.

[DCLXVI]

Posts 550 & 551 weren't exactly that insightful either.

[Voidedmafia]

Posts 550 & 551 weren't exactly that insightful either.

Any desire to call this a meta-tell from LWIV is being strangled by how much I hate you doing this.

WHere are your (explained) reads?

[vijay2vasandani]

OMG YOU CAN QUOTE.

Shame you forget to include the poster.

But what are you getting at? Vijay why did you say that? What has that got to do with anything? I'm confused.

Because AVox asked for it.

But what are you getting at? Vijay why did you say that? What has that got to do with anything? I'm confused.

(LOOK MORE QUOTING!)

Anyways, the point is the dissonance between the two points made. Previously vijay stated how AVox was able to analyze the game and give good spec, but was secretive with what he knew. Based on this, vijay is saying that AVox's lack of outstanding speculation makes him nervous.

However, in the second quote, he's trying to construe it as if AVox could actually use it against him, which he shouldn't have to worry about unless he's on the opposite side of AVox.

P-EDIT: Yeah, that's the problem part of the post.

Okay I don't see the issue. Simple terms. AVox is good at setup spec. In the past game, he did it in the QT, keeping it from town. He is now not contributing to setup spec. I am afraid he could be keeping it from us which is bad. If he is town, he still should be contributing because he's good at this stuff.

[DCLXVI]

Any desire to call this a meta-tell from LWIV is being strangled by how much I hate you doing this.

I'm kind of curious, what exactly do you think my meta is?

[Voidedmafia]

I don't fucking know. I just know you pulled that same spiel in LWIV and you were town there.

[Quilford]

Game Board

Spoiler: Robocopter87's flip

Robocopter87 flips tile F4...

Spoiler: Final Board & Activity Log

Code: Select all

Voidedmafia flipped tile A4, revealing a D.
AurorusVox flipped tile G6, revealing a W.
IceGuy flipped tile H6, revealing an O.
DLCXVI flipped tile B6, revealing an M.
MagnaofIllusion flipped tile B5, revealing an N.
vijay2vasandani flipped tile I4, revealing a G.
2minds1soul took tile I1, collecting an unknown...
Robocopter87 flipped tile F4, revealing an I.

MagnaofIllusion has used his daily flip.
AurorusVox has used his daily flip.
IceGuy has used his daily flip.
Lady Lambdadelta has not used either her daily flip or collect.
2minds1soul have used their daily collect.
Robocopter87 has used his daily flip.
whispersilk has not used either her daily flip or collect.
DCLXVI has used his daily flip.
vijay2vasandani has used his daily flip.
Amrun has not used either her daily flip or collect.
Voidedmafia has used his daily flip.

--- DAY 1 ------------------------------------------------
MagnaofIllusion flipped tile E5, revealing an R.
Hoopla flipped tile K1, revealing a C.
Voidedmafia flipped tile K6, revealing an X.
Lady Lambdadelta flipped tile D4, revealing an N.
Lady Lambdadelta took tile D4, collecting an N.
Robocopter87 flipped tile J2, revealing a P.
Robocopter87 took tile J2, collecting a P.
IceGuy flipped tile A1, revealing a P.
vijay2vasandani flipped tile C4, revealing an R.
2minds1soul flipped tile H4, revealing a C.
AurorusVox flipped tile A6, revealing a T.
Amrun took tile A2, collecting an unknown...
DLCXVI flipped tile F6, revealing a D.
Amrun flipped tile B2, revealing a V.
Arugula flipped tile D2, revealing an M.
Hoopla took tile E5, collecting an R.
whispersilk flipped tile G2, revealing a Z.
AurorusVox took tile A1, collecting a P.
MagnaofIllusion took tile B2, collecting a V.
Voidedmafia took tile C4, collecting an R.
vijay2vasandani took tile K1, collecting a C.
whispersilk took tile D2, collecting an M.
2minds1soul took tile H4, collecting a C.
Arugula took tile C6, collecting an unknown...
DCLXVI took tile A6, collecting a T.
IceGuy took tile F6, collecting a D.

Day 2

DCLXVI

(2) AurorusVox, vijay2vasandani

IceGuy

(2) Voidedmafia, MagnaofIllusion

2minds1soul

(1) IceGuy

AurorusVox

(1) DCLXVI

Not Voting

(5) Lady Lambdadelta, 2minds1soul, Robocopter87, whispersilk, Amrun

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline hits in (expired on 2012-07-19 01:18:09).

MoI has declared Limited Access during weekends.
Amrun has declared V/LA until Mon, Jul 9, 2012.

[AurorusVox]

What setup spec do you want? CYOR was open, we figured out who had what roles, and made a plan. Being scum makes me the informed minority, thus giving me more information to work with. Here I'm the uninfomed minority, and apart from vms role speculations, I don't see what you want from me.

Do you want me to suggest what letters people should take? When I don't know their hand? And why would they listen to me? Am I meant to plan out night actions without knowing roles?

You say I can mislead with my setup spec. Yet you are suspicious that I'm not speculating.

This is far too stinky.

vote: vijay

Whisper, why did I think you were scum d1?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I note with interest Iceguy’s reaction to 2for1’s pick in Post 531 and that it doesn’t jibe with his reaction (nothing at all, Amrun is ‘Null’ to him) to Amrun doing the same thing Day 1. Cognitive Dissonance highlighting him being selective with his ‘reasoning’ and not going after the harder target in Amrun.

Iceguy’s Post 519 and Post 522 are laughably wrong. I’ll explain why but wanted to point out the following –

]

As to me - if Arugula is indeed Town (which would guess is the case given what I have seen) I'd be confortable lynching in the following -

Iceguy, AV, DCL, Robo, Vijay, LLD

He's basically saying "that was a scum-driven derail and new wagon, but neither the person starting it nor the people ending it are scum". How the fuck does that make any sense?

Well first you are factually incorrect since the person who is in the first slot (and thus ‘started’ the wagon) is DCL. Well low and behold … he’s on my list.

Furthermore he’s somehow float that people in the middle of the wagon (aka AV / Robo / Vijay) can’t be scum in some sort of “scum only start or end wagons” line of crap reasoning that isn’t valid at all. Furthermore him trying to link my scum-read on him to the wagon and not to his play is laughable.

Why Iceguy is scum who got bailed out Day 1? Let’s examine –

Iceguy hits L-2 at Post 264 from Amrun.

At Post 335 Iceguy posts his AtE fluff -

Why should I bother with it? You idiots are going to lynch me anyway. No matter what I do now.

If I post a long-winded defense, I'm scum for stating something you don't agree with.
If I don't, I'm also scum for not replying.
If I change my opinion, I'm opportunistic scum.
If I don't change my opinion, I'm stubborn scum.
If I post a town read, I'm either defending my scumbuddy or trying to appear town by defending them.
If I post a scum read, I'm either trying to get a mislynch through or I'm bussing.

There is no point in putting any more effort into this. Everything I say or do will be considered as undeniable proof that I'm scum.

He then goes into Scumopotomus lurk mode …

Whisper unvotes him at Post 374. At this point the wagon composition (as shown in Post 375 are such –

IceGuy (4) Arugula, Voidedmafia, MagnaofIllusion, Amrun
whispersilk (3) 2minds1soul, AurorusVox, Robocopter87
Arugula (2) DCLXVI, IceGuy
Hoopla (2) Lady Lambdadelta, vijay2vasandani
DCLXVI (1) Hoopla

Not Voting (1) whispersilk

So Iceguy has 4 votes, Whisper 3, and Arugula and Hoopla 2. Here’s what happens next and demonstrates to me why Iceguy is being bailed out by his partners.

Whisper votes for AV at Post 377. First line of evidence that she’s Town in my scenario … she chooses to vote a singleton and not fuel the coming mislynch.

At Post 384 AV directly asks Robo is he would lynch Arugula over Whisper to keep Iceguy from being lynched. Both are voting Whisper at this stage but moving to Arugula would make his wagon equal with Iceguy’s. At Post 385 Robo votes Arugula and Post 386 AV votes Arugula. It’s important this interchange for multiple reasons.

1. In Post 382 Robo lists both Ice and AV as Null reads with Arugula as Null-scum and Whisper as Scum. Why is Robo so eager to work with a Null read AV to save Null read Iceguy to lynch Null-scum Arugula over his previous most scummy read Whisper? I could understand if he was willing to work closely with a strong Town read but AV was Null to Robo. Furthermore we’ve never seen any explanation why suddenly Robo has Arugula as more likely scum than Whisper.

2. AV has pretty much been focusing on Whisper after giving Arugula some cursory focus very early in the day. Yet he’s suddenly willing to shift only after Whisper (who is scum to him) unvotes Iceguy. Note that this doesn’t change his read on Whisper at all (as evidenced by today and post-hammer).

So the timing of this two-step is suspicious as fuck.

DCL pops in and keeps his vote on Arugula while not really commenting on anything other than Hoopla voting him at Post 414.

Vijay drops a Arugula vote at Post 430. This moves Arugula ahead of Iceguy by a score of 5-3 (Arugula had already moved his vote to Robocopter by this point).

So in a grand total of 45 posts Arugula went from a wagon of 2 to a wagon of 5 (with a 2 vote clearance from Ice-scum). And this coincides with Iceguy having been at L-2 for over 100 posts and his AtE flailing as a last ditch effort to keep away from the noose.

Couple that with Iceguy’s scummy play that got him that L-2 wagon in the first place Day 1 and you have the clear recipe for scum bailing out their partner ..

Scum is in Iceguy – (AV / Robo) – (DCL / Vijay) in all likelihood.

--

I need more time to process ICEguy vs MoI - one of them is scum, MoI's last two posts have me wondering.

So when Iceguy flips scum I become confirmed Town to you?

Vm I know, strange right? I rarely agree with lld (i think she fooled me in defcon) but I found things she posted tickled me nicely in a gut town read sorta way. I can point to specifics when I'm back home with laptop access.

I eagerly await your explanation. I see it didn’t come in Post 535.

--

Why was the vote scummy in your own words?

Nope, you don’t get to duck out of answering the question. You cast a scummy as fuck vote yesterday. Why was Arugula scum in your own words. Don’t dodge the question again.

You are forgetting the scenario in which Ice flips town.

In related news, I am not down for an Ice lynch.

Well given that I have a scum read on Ice I don’t see that scenario as valid. Your defense of Ice is noted for post Ice-scum flip analysis.

--

2minds1soul is town, I doubt that scum at this point would do something that scummy.

Why wasn't Amrun Town for doing the exact same thing Day 1? Your reads list at Post 414 well after she made that move had her as Null.

--

Okay I don't see the issue. Simple terms. AVox is good at setup spec. In the past game, he did it in the QT, keeping it from town. He is now not contributing to setup spec. I am afraid he could be keeping it from us which is bad. If he is town, he still should be contributing because he's good at this stuff.

So you know Scum AV is hides set-up spec information in the Scum QTs and think he is doing that here. Yet you aren’t voting him but are instead voting DCL.

[AurorusVox]

MoI, I purposefully dropped Whisper after she voted me because I knew I could get Arugula up to the same number of votes as ICE. I did these because he was (and has since gone back to) a strong townread of mine who I want

ed

to keep alive.

Also fuck your condescension re: LLD. I've only got back to a laptop last night at something like 9pm, I've been teaching all day, and I come home to see you crying about why I think LLD is town...when she's not even in YOUR scumlist.

So many scum.

[AurorusVox]

You know who is really really town?

Robocopter.

You know who really really needs a bullet between their eyes?

MoI.

Some one get to that, if you will.

This is the major reason LLD is town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, I purposefully dropped Whisper after she voted me because I knew I could get Arugula up to the same number of votes as ICE. I did these because he was (and has since gone back to) a strong townread of mine who I want

ed

to keep alive.

Also fuck your condescension re: LLD. I've only got back to a laptop last night at something like 9pm, I've been teaching all day, and I come home to see you crying about why I think LLD is town...when she's not even in YOUR scumlist.

So many scum.

So you ran up the mislynch as opposed to sticking with your claimed scum Whisper read simply because you could more easily run that particular wagon? Well regardless of whether Iceguy is Town or not (and hint ... he's not) then you haven't exactly done a bang up job of lynching scum have you?

Please get off your high horse. I don't know your personal schedule and if you expect everyone to psychically know that AV is still sans Laptop you might need to adjust your expectations. I come to the thread and read you saying "I'll post my reasons why LLD is Town when I get to a computer later" and then see a later post where you don't directly say "Hey, still posting by phone" or give said reasons. LLD isn't in my scum list right currently given how likely it is that both Iceguy's partners helped get him off the hook but I wanted to see why you called LLD Town given that this play is NOTHING like Town LLD I have seen in the past.

[AurorusVox]

It's not much like scum LLD either though is it, MoI?

Don't forget I also had a scumread on Argucuckoo. Why wouldn't I want to see her lynched?

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's not much like scum LLD either though is it, MoI?

Don't forget I also had a scumread on Argucuckoo. Why wouldn't I want to see her lynched?

So it doesn't look like LLD of either alignment you have ever seen and your single 'gut' post is her agreeing with your read on Robo and myself. Color me unimpressed ...

Oh, I don't forget you had a 'scum-read' on Arugula. The fact that you were instrumental in helping push that mislynch through and protecting Iceguy at the same time given my read on Ice weighs heavily on my read on you currently.

[AurorusVox]

So what does ICETown mean for your reads, MoI?

I think it reads like LLD Town. You don't, fine. But it certainly DOESN'T read like LLD scum. Since we know there are no third parties, I'll take my town read and your non-scum read of her to confirm that you're just chasing shit for giggles at this point.

[Robocopter87]

@MoI:You posted this,

So once we flip Iceguy scum we can move on to deciding if both his partners joined him on the mislynch wagon (which not ironically AV has indicated is within his scum tool-belt) or if one is in the floaters who didn't cast any meaningful votes Day 1.

However, you failed to say what your course of action would be if Iceguy were to flip town.

[IceGuy]

Well first you are factually incorrect since the person who is in the first slot (and thus ‘started’ the wagon) is DCL. Well low and behold … he’s on my list.

Who originally started the wagon is irrelevant - you said that the wagon was picked up by scum trying to derail mine. DCL voted Arugula long before that happened (at some point, you also voted him)

Furthermore he’s somehow float that people in the middle of the wagon (aka AV / Robo / Vijay) can’t be scum in some sort of “scum only start or end wagons” line of crap reasoning that isn’t valid at all.

Again, irrelevant when you claim it was scum-driven.

Furthermore him trying to link my scum-read on him to the wagon and not to his play is laughable.

In that case, why mention the wagon at all if it's irrelevant and a wrong statement?

Why Iceguy is scum who got bailed out Day 1?

Interestingly, you never mentioned this wall until today. Noticed people aren't going to lynch me and needed to make up a little more?

The point is: I have several people who unvoted me and voted Arugula on my suspect list. I think what they were doing was jumping from dying mislynch (mine) to active mislynch (Arugula), and the data is consistent with that.

Your wall says absolutely nothing about my alignment, only about the alignment of others. Yet you continue to push me. Why?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Robocopter

– Until you answer the following question don’t expect me to answer yours ..

@Vijay and Robo - Both of your votes for Arugula looked scummy. Why was he scummy in your own words?

--

So what does ICETown mean for your reads, MoI?

Iceguy Town would mean I would have to find the remains of my head when it exploded and look back at the players avoiding both his and Arugula’s wagons. If both dominant wagons later in the day were Town scum were probably happy to not make waves. It also means I would really need to review the Whispersilk wagon in more detail.

What does Iceguy scum do to your reads? I have yet to see anything from you second guessing your own reads but you seem very focused on asking others to second guess theirs ...

As for the rest – determining whether you are scum is part of the game AV. Sorry that offends your delicate sensabilities …

--

Who originally started the wagon is irrelevant - you said that the wagon was picked up by scum trying to derail mine. DCL voted Arugula long before that happened (at some point, you also voted him)

Could you move the goalposts more scum? Anyone who doesn’t see the following exchange as just that needs new glasses.

Icescum – Why are you ignoring the person who started the wagon?
MoI – Herp a derp … DCL is on that list ..
Icescum – Well it is irrelevant blah blah blah

Again, irrelevant when you claim it was scum-driven.

Yes, those people who propelled the wagon past Icescum are irrelevant to my saying it was scum-driven

I appreciate you not even trying to make arguments that make any sense.

In that case, why mention the wagon at all if it's irrelevant and a wrong statement?

Why scum-hunt for your partners? Lulz …

The point is:

I have several people who unvoted me and voted Arugula on my suspect list.

I think what they were doing was jumping from dying mislynch (mine) to active mislynch (Arugula), and the data is consistent with that.

In regards to the bolded … Iceguy Voting Record –

Whispersilk – is not one of the hoppers …
Arugula – Lulz the mislynch in question … so is clearly not one of the hoppers
MoI – is not one of the hoppers …
2for1 – is not one of the hoppers …
MoI – as above

So you have suspect who did that yet you’ve never voted them. It’s as if you are trying to distance while not actually pressuring any of those ‘claimed’ suspects.

Your wall says absolutely nothing about my alignment, only about the alignment of others. Yet you continue to push me. Why?

Look … more empty questioning. Anyone with brain cell one can look at my Day 1 posting and see why I called you scum. Yet you pretend that doesn’t exist and me providing even more support for my position is somehow not talking about why you are scum.

I see you have tried to disengage yourself from me by hopping on 2for1 in a scummy fashion (hey look … Iceguy totally dodged answering why he didn’t find Amrun suspect for the exact same thing … he knows he can’t honestly justify it so he ignores … scummy scummy scum scum!). Sucks I will not be deterred huh?

[IceGuy]

Icescum – Why are you ignoring the person who started the wagon?
MoI – Herp a derp … DCL is on that list ..
Icescum – Well it is irrelevant blah blah blah

Links. Now.

(Yes, I know you can't actually provide them. I'm just waiting which one of my statements you're going to try and misrepresent)

So you have suspect who did that yet you’ve never voted them. It’s as if you are trying to distance while not actually pressuring any of those ‘claimed’ suspects.

Yes, I have them as suspects. None of them have been my top suspects at one point - of course, I've posted reads, but you've decided to ignore them.

You claiming it's scummy to not vote all of one's suspects is ridiculous and shows at which kind of straws you're already grasping.

Look … more empty questioning. Anyone with brain cell one can look at my Day 1 posting and see why I called you scum.

Yeah, because you're scum trying to get me mislynched.

I see you have tried to disengage yourself from me by hopping on 2for1 in a scummy fashion (hey look … Iceguy totally dodged answering why he didn’t find Amrun suspect for the exact same thing … he knows he can’t honestly justify it so he ignores … scummy scummy scum scum!).

I ignored that the first time around because you were deliberately drawing a false equivalence. Amrun did it on Day 1 before the topic was discussed to death - 2m1s did it on Day 2.

And no, I didn't disengage from you. I voted 2m1s to show him his behavior was inacceptable and to possible get a reaction, which succeeded. I moved my vote back to you when it came back to lynching actual scum and not shitty lurkhydras.

Sucks I will not be deterred huh?

Just keep doing what you're doing; it helps me illustrate my point that you're scum.

[DCLXVI]

Why wasn't Amrun Town for doing the exact same thing Day 1? Your reads list at Post 414 well after she made that move had her as Null.

Maybe because armun did the collect without a flip around post 80ish. Discussion on what was the best way to handle flips had not finished.

Its a completely different situation than 2minds1soul doing it at post 550 after the issue had been thoroughly discussed.

[Voidedmafia]

Icescum – Why are you ignoring the person who started the wagon?
MoI – Herp a derp … DCL is on that list ..
Icescum – Well it is irrelevant blah blah blah

Links. Now.

(Yes, I know you can't actually provide them. I'm just waiting which one of my statements you're going to try and misrepresent)

He claims scum derailed my wagon and set up the Arugula one.

The first player to jump off my wagon was whisper - not a scum suspect according to him.
L-1 and hammer on Arugula were done by you and Amrun respectively - also not scum suspects according to him.

...

At most, he could claim that the people in-between are scum for jumping on the mislynch wagon - but he can't use that narrative because it would make me town, and he can't have that because I'm the designated mislynch.

First quote...

Well first you are factually incorrect since the person who is in the first slot (and thus ‘started’ the wagon) is DCL. Well low and behold … he’s on my list.

Who originally started the wagon is irrelevant - you said that the wagon was picked up by scum trying to derail mine. DCL voted Arugula long before that happened (at some point, you also voted him)

syeah.

Why wasn't Amrun Town for doing the exact same thing Day 1? Your reads list at Post 414 well after she made that move had her as Null.

Maybe because armun did the collect without a flip around post 80ish. Discussion on what was the best way to handle flips had not finished.

Its a completely different situation than 2minds1soul doing it at post 550 after the issue had been thoroughly discussed.

No, but I believe it was already becoming clear (or getting to that point) that doing collects without flips was not the best idea.

[IceGuy]

Your point is approximately as good as your quoting skills.

[DCLXVI]

No, but I believe it was already becoming clear (or getting to that point) that doing collects without flips was not the best idea.

Sure it was getting to that point, but there was still plenty of discussion going on.

Whereas at the start of day two I think there was a general consensus on how to go about flips which 2minds1sould chose to go directly against.

[Voidedmafia]

Spoiler: summation of the board

Day 1:

LLD can possibly make either neighborize (NB) or Ninja (NJ).
Robocopter has 1 piece for Cop, CPR Doc, or PGO.
Amrun has 1 unknown
Hoopla has 1 piece for CPR and can possibly make RB
AV has 1 piece for Cop, CPR, and PGO like Robo
MoI has 1 piece for Vig and can possibly make VO
I have one piece for CPR and can possibly make RB like Hoop
Vijay and 2minds have 1 piece for Cop, CPR, and WTC, and can possibly make CM, DC, and LC.
Whisper has 1 piece for WHM, and can possibly make SM and CM
Arugula has 1 unknown
DCL has 1 piece for WTC and can possibly make TK
IceGuy has 1 piece for WKD and HID, and can possibly make DC

Day 2:

2Minds1Soul has one unknown piece

Possible word combos based on the tiles currently flipped are:
X, K6 - None
T, A6 - WTC, TK
Z, G2 - None
D, A4 - HID, WKD, DC
N, B5 - NB, NJ
M, B6 - WHM, CM, SM
W, G6 - WHM, WKD, WTC
O, H6 - COP, PGO, VO
G, I4 - PGO, BG
I, F4 - HID, VIG

You know who is really really town?

Robocopter.

You know who really really needs a bullet between their eyes?

MoI.

Some one get to that, if you will.

This is the major reason LLD is town.

...Really? That's...underwhelming.

Yes, I have them as suspects. None of them have been my top suspects at one point - of course, I've posted reads, but you've decided to ignore them.

You claiming it's scummy to not vote all of one's suspects is ridiculous and shows at which kind of straws you're already grasping.

Did he actually say that?

P-EDIT: You asked for links/quotes. You got them. How well it was formatted in this fucking annoying box is irrelevant. Though, if you want to just plug your ears and try to wish it away, go ahead.

DCL: Which makes him ballsy scum or needs-to-die town.