Mini 1349: Words with Scum (Game over!)

[DCLXVI]

Oh and btw, dcl I was just sheeping whoever voted you to begin with. I remember agreeing with somebody.

Problem is that when you voted me, no one had a case on me.

[DCLXVI]

Yep, just looked it up.

Auros voted me without any explanation, no one else called me scummy, and then on the first page of day 2 vijay voted me without any explanation.

post 773 is a bunch of BS, there was no one to agree with, and the only person to shee (auros) had not provided any case or reason to his vote.

[Robocopter87]

You see. There is a problem.

There is only 3 scum.

Yet you managed to....

Null leaning scum:
Robocopter

Scum:
Auros
Vijay
MoI

robo is still scum, and either ICE or VM is scum with him.

Hmmm... Just lynch all of us. We'll hit your buddies eventually right?

[DCLXVI]

Robo, did you not catch the part where I said my reads were part of the gambit?

obviously not.

[DCLXVI]

To be more clear, I mean the reads I gave BEFORE, I told everyone about the gambit.

[IceGuy]

Robo, what do you think of MoI?

[Robocopter87]

Robo, did you not catch the part where I said my reads were part of the gambit?

obviously not.

Because if somebody does something and then later on says that they had been pulling an elaborate gambit and that their reads were fake make their words invalid because it was all "part of the plan". So. You mean to tell me you think those three guys are not scum?

Robo, what do you think of MoI?

That is a really good question. I haven't really put a lot of input on him.

I'll look into his ISO and post my findings. (But now now. Jeez what am I, the pope?)

[2minds1soul]

@DCL, can we get a new list of reads from you. This time, please only have wisper on the list once. Wisper was in the town and null sections of the last one. We also request that every other player in the game is on the list, excluding yourself, because we weren't on the last list.

[DCLXVI]

Yes a new list is coming. Maybe tonight, but more likely tomorrow morning.

Though there is a certain amount of irony seeing that request come from you.

[vijay2vasandani]

Just rereading, I agreed with the sentiment that you started the day terribly. You just flipped a tile without addressing anything else. I decided it was a reason as good as any.

[Quilford]

Game Board

Spoiler: Lady Lambdadelta's flip

Lady Lambdadelta flips tile D3...

Spoiler: Lady Lambdadelta's collect

Lady Lambdadelta collects tile D3...

Spoiler: Robocopter87's collect

Robocopter87 collects tile I5...

Spoiler: IceGuy's collect

IceGuy collects tile F4...

Spoiler: MagnaofIllusion's collect

MagnaofIllusion collects tile E1...

Spoiler: Voidedmafia's collect

Voidedmafia collects tile A4...

Spoiler: Final Board & Activity Log

Code: Select all

Voidedmafia flipped tile A4, revealing a D.
AurorusVox flipped tile G6, revealing a W.
IceGuy flipped tile H6, revealing an O.
DLCXVI flipped tile B6, revealing an M.
MagnaofIllusion flipped tile B5, revealing an N.
vijay2vasandani flipped tile I4, revealing a G.
2minds1soul took tile I1, collecting an unknown...
Robocopter87 flipped tile F4, revealing an I. 
Lady Lambdadelta flipped tile D3, revealing an R.
Lady Lambdadelta took tile D3, collecting an R.
Robocopter87 took tile I5, collecting an unknown...
IceGuy took tile F4, collecting an I.
MagnaofIllusion took tile E1, collecting an unknown...
Voidedmafia took tile A4, collecting a D.

MagnaofIllusion has used both his daily flip and collect.
AurorusVox has used his daily flip.
IceGuy has used both his daily flip and collect.
Lady Lambdadelta has used both her daily flip and collect.
2minds1soul have used their daily collect.
Robocopter87 has used both his daily flip and collect.
whispersilk has not used either her daily flip or collect.
DCLXVI has used his daily flip.
vijay2vasandani has used his daily flip.
Amrun has not used either her daily flip or collect.
Voidedmafia has used both his daily flip and collect. 

--- DAY 1 ------------------------------------------------
MagnaofIllusion flipped tile E5, revealing an R.
Hoopla flipped tile K1, revealing a C.
Voidedmafia flipped tile K6, revealing an X.
Lady Lambdadelta flipped tile D4, revealing an N.
Lady Lambdadelta took tile D4, collecting an N.
Robocopter87 flipped tile J2, revealing a P.
Robocopter87 took tile J2, collecting a P.
IceGuy flipped tile A1, revealing a P.
vijay2vasandani flipped tile C4, revealing an R.
2minds1soul flipped tile H4, revealing a C.
AurorusVox flipped tile A6, revealing a T.
Amrun took tile A2, collecting an unknown...
DLCXVI flipped tile F6, revealing a D.
Amrun flipped tile B2, revealing a V.
Arugula flipped tile D2, revealing an M.
Hoopla took tile E5, collecting an R.
whispersilk flipped tile G2, revealing a Z.
AurorusVox took tile A1, collecting a P.
MagnaofIllusion took tile B2, collecting a V.
Voidedmafia took tile C4, collecting an R.
vijay2vasandani took tile K1, collecting a C.
whispersilk took tile D2, collecting an M.
2minds1soul took tile H4, collecting a C.
Arugula took tile C6, collecting an unknown...
DCLXVI took tile A6, collecting a T.
IceGuy took tile F6, collecting a D.

Day 2

>>>

DCLXVI

(5) vijay2vasandani, Robocopter87, MagnaofIllusion, Lady Lambdadelta, Voidedmafia

<<<

MagnaofIllusion

(2) IceGuy, AurorusVox

Robocopter87

(1) DCLXVI

Not Voting

(3) 2minds1soul, whispersilk, Amrun 

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. 

Deadline hits in (expired on 2012-07-19 01:18:09). 

Prodding Lady Lambdadelta.

MoI has declared Limited Access during weekends.

[AurorusVox]

collect: i4

Dcl's insistence that I had no reason to vote for him is irritating but alas he's town.

Now VM on the other hand

vote: voidedmafia

[Voidedmafia]

The point as you are well aware is that you posted links to IN THREAD behavior in trying to demonstrate you had a valid case in 70s.

So your point is: I posted long posts in another game where I was town and shorter posts here, therefore I must be scum here.

...That is so not MoI's point to the point that it isn't even funny that you don't get it.

Vm: my point is you should care if Dcl can self hammer considering you have townreads who have not yet collected. You said people on the wagon had already collected as if that excused your scummy l-1 vote. But obv not.

You're saying my L-1 vote is scummy because everyone is suddenly going to be threatened by the possibility of DCL self-hammering when half the players have already collected? Or what?

It is still very possible that his own team hasn't been able to collect yet, and it seems that DCL still feels like he can actually get out of this, so I don't think it's that much of a problem as you're trying to make it out to be.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why isn't DCL dead yet?

[Voidedmafia]

Why isn't DCL dead yet?

Because there are still people who need to collect?

Why are you being so harrying in trying to get him lynched now?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why isn't DCL dead yet?

Because there are still people who need to collect?

Why are you being so harrying in trying to get him lynched now?

It's been 48-72 hours since I asked for him dead before.

People who haven't collected or flipped since I asked last are

stalling.

[IceGuy]

The point as you are well aware is that you posted links to IN THREAD behavior in trying to demonstrate you had a valid case in 70s.

So your point is: I posted long posts in another game where I was town and shorter posts here, therefore I must be scum here.

...That is so not MoI's point to the point that it isn't even funny that you don't get it.

It exactly is.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ps moi on my phone so I can't check anything out but it sounds like ice is in the right above. So what if he's changed how he scumhunts? I know i have.

So you’ve made your decision without even bothering to check what I actually wrote. Well either you are scum or caught in “Ice is Town so by definition I’ll just side with him regardless” confirmation bias. Either way I can see trying to be reasonable and present you with information is going to be fruitless (if you are Town) until he flips scum.

For the record – he’s not ‘changed how he scumhunts’ … he’s not scum-hunting. His case is basically lies since he can’t actually demonstrate any of his ‘points’ are actually valid.

--

People who haven't collected or flipped since I asked last are stalling.

At this stage you’d be looking at Whisper (who has done neither), AV (no collect), Vijay (no collect) and 2for1 (no flip).

[AurorusVox]

collect: i4

Itt moi is caught in a lie.

Moi if you think I'm scum why isn't my apparent confirmation bias making you rethink your ice read?

Plus I explicitly said I wasn't checking because I was on my phone. Keep trying tho.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Moi if you think I'm scum why isn't my apparent confirmation bias making you rethink your ice read?

Are you reading along? I said either you were scum (and thus aren't actually worried about making reads since you know everyone's alignment) or had confirmation bias. That's an either / or scenario ...

Why should you strongly defending Iceguy make me change my read on him again? Are you suggesting scum aren't capable of strongly defending partners under fire? I'd really like you to lay out why your play should make me re-think my scum read on Ice given that I'm basing it on his posts not yours ...

[AurorusVox]

Oh.
I thought you meant that IF I WAS SCUM, I would KNOW he was TOWN and would thus be CONFIRMATION BIASED.
Is that not what the term means?

PS I'm back on my laptop now. Link me to the offensive posts for side by side comparison.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh.
I thought you meant that IF I WAS SCUM, I would KNOW he was TOWN and would thus be CONFIRMATION BIASED.
Is that not what the term means?

PS I'm back on my laptop now. Link me to the offensive posts for side by side comparison.

Confirmation bias is when a person (and it has to be Town … scum are biased because they are scum ) has a belief / read / stance and holds strongly to it and basically filters all their ideas through that prism.

I’m saying basically you are viewing every interaction through your “Iceguy is Town” confirmation bias prism if you are Town.

You could, of course, argue that I am doing the same thing with my “Iceguy is scum” read.

Post 652 – The links to each ‘case’ are in the sentence that begins “It’s a good reads for those wanting to see the difference …”
--

[AurorusVox]

Okay. I see I made a mistake there. You still lied about me not collecting though D:<

@ICE, can you give an example

from this game

of MoI doing each of the things you claim he does in this post?

I note the difference, it is quite extreme. Do you have examples of ICE scum playing like he has here, though? Because, for one thing, almost a year has passed: if you want to argue he's scum on meta like that, you'd need a larger sample because (as I said before) my playstyle underwent a huge change some time ago and I'm sure I had people saying "OH HE MUST BE SCUM BECAUSE THIS ISN'T HOW HE PLAYED AS TOWN!" without bothering to check if it was how I played as scum; the conclusion could have been drawn that it was unlike ANY of my play and was therefore a playstyle shift rather than alignment-indicative. I think the same rigour needs to be applied here if you want to make a case from it.

[whispersilk]

@LLD

: It's been 240+ hours since you last posted anything that vaguely resembles scumhunting.

Flip: B3

So the exchanges between DCL/Robo/IG got me thinking about IG again, so I did an indepth ISO, focusing mainly on who he was voting for, his scum reads on day 1 and most importantly the timing of everything. Also, why did I originally have a scum read on him and what exactly was it that changed my mind.

IG spent all of day one arguing with either me, MoI, Hoopla and to a lesser extent Arugula, calling me scum and Hoop scummy. When he unvoted me and voted Arugula, he then gave a set of reads that suddenly put me, MoI and Hoop into the "probable town" category, and also put Robo as his only other scum read besides Arugula. My problem here is that until this point, IG had never said one word about, or directed at Robo, except in his second post in the game where he asks MoI what he thinks of him. There is absolutely nothing after that - no questions, no pressure, no case and no hint that he thought him scummy before he gave those reads, and he never comments on MoI's response to his question. This might not have troubled me enough to change my read on him again, except I read this post (which I had previously missed while reading the game):

Yeah right. That is a damned if you do, damned if you don't statement.

If you read her as scum, she appears town and you are wrong.

If you read her as town, you are scum because she is a safe townread.

No, it's a "

when you pull a read out of thin air and it shows you're scummy

" statement.

IG was the first person to post anything after Arugula posted the plan which earned him scum points from many of you, but interestingly enough, he didn't call him scum and he didn't vote for him.

IG's main problem with Arugula appears to be Aru's town read on Amrun, yet IG

didn't

raise this point or attack Aru for it until 4 pages later, in fact, he voted me in-between the post where Aru calls Amrun town and the point where he starts up on Aru.

Also, at this point Aru had just voted for IG. I find this interesting because of something that IG said to me:

The fact that you suddenly discover I'm scummy based on a post from a few pages ago just when I start to attack you doesn't help your case, really.

Hypocritical to say the least.

IG starts off day 2 by voting for MoI. This happens despite the fact that MoI was not on the Arugula wagon, indeed none of his "probable town" reads were on the mislynch. Great, except just 5 posts later he's unvoting MoI and wait for it...voting Robo? - his only other scumread from day 1 who also happened to play a pivotal role in mislynching Arugula. No. Maybe one of his leaning scum reads LLD or Voided - one of whom was also on the mislynch, and the other having her vote on one of his probable town reads ALL DAY? Nope. He's voting 2for1 (a D1 null read) for something he clearly thought scummy enough to make him change his vote from MoI, yet not really scummy enough because just 3 posts after that his vote is put back on MoI There is still absolutely no mention of Robo.

So when exactly does IG talk to Robo, his D1 scum read for the first time? Well he says this in response to DCL:

I've been running a gambit.

Not buying it. (Although I like the conclusion that Robo is scum, for unrelated reasons though.)

I see where you're going with it, but town would also call BS on a secret tell as long as you don't give a good reason to not share it.

We still don't really know why IG thinks Robo is scum. All we have to go on is this from D1:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Arugula

Other scum reads: Robocopter
Leaning scum: LLD, Voided
Neutral or need to post more: Amrun, 2m1s, vijay, DCL
Unfortunately probably town: MoI, Hoopla, whisper
Town: AV

Posting to say I fully stand by those reads, and I believe the latest posts of Robo and Arugula confirm them - they definitely read like scum being very annoyed that their mislynch probably won't go through as easily as they hoped.

Ok, IG obviously thinks that Aru and Robo are scum buddies, so which recent posts and which mislynch is he referring to? Well Aru is voting IG and think's I'm town. So he must be referring to his own wagon, and the only posts from Aru that I can see are directed at Vox. But seeing as we now know that Aru was town, this is all moot. What about Robo? Which of Robo's posts in-between posts 342 and 381 could he mean? This is a very very easy answer because Robo (who has his vote on me) only posted once during this period:

I don't like how Robocopter is reacting.

/facepalm

Alright. There is this thing. It's called reasoning. We use it when we wish to describe and support our statements.

Go back, quote me, and use explanation to describe why I am scum.

ICEGUY I THINK YOU'RE TOWN
DONT LET THE BASTARDS GRIND YOU DOWN

Town: AV

Cmon man. You said this like three posts after AV said his. You didn't even make the obvious buddying less obvious.

DCL, what the hell is your problem with me? Did I take a shit on your pillow or something?

I did have a bandwagon going, and EXCUSE ME if I didn't realize that all but one person hopped off. Nonetheless, IceGuy abandoned his case on whispersilk and moved onto someone who others had previously voted: me.

You have been tunneling me this whole game. Literally. After pages of posts, that is all you have to comment on? That is scummy as hell.

You didn't even address Hoopla's vote on you.

Whoa man.

This is pretty vicious towards DCL. Yeah DCL has been doing crap for content (And you were not the first to point this out. i pointed it out and you resaid it multiple posts later.)

It was a ridiculous question to ask him nonetheless. He thinks you are scum. This game is called Mafia. You find Mafia. You kill the Mafia.

However he does need to post more content. But again, this has already been stated.

Sorry about this post, I made a better one like this. Except a lot of crap happened and I lost it. first post I've ever lost, I think. So this is just a quick recreation of it.

So the post that IG is using to back up his claim that Aru and Robo are scum together is a post where Robo attacks Aru twice. It's also noteworthy that Robo then unvotes me and votes Aru a few posts later and Aru unvoted IG and voted Robo. So, the two buddies are now voting each other. Oooooook. So does IG now consider that perhaps his theory of Aru/Robo might be wrong, or that maybe Robo is bussing Aru? I don't know because with Aru at L-1, IG goes into lurker mode, popping in to tell me that Vox was faking the hammer on Aru and to say this to MoI:

MoI, all I see is you accusing almost everyone else in the game with pretty much made-up reasons.

(I still think you're town, though.)

Back to lurk mode, then pops in again only after Amrun hammers Aru:

Aside from the fact that I hardly have suspected “everyone”. Thanks for playing.

You suspected LLD, whisper, Aurorus, vijay, Arugula, Hoopla, DCLXVI, and me. That's eight players in a three-scum game.

And you just recently said you'd lynch all of them except for whisper and Hoopla, which you dropped without an explanation.

You have never posted a read on Amrun, Voided, or 2m1s. You've actually completely ignored 2m1s.

In the end, you're giving and retracting scum reads without rhyme or reason, while remaining ambivalent enough so you can safely lynch everybody when time comes.

I think I have to re-think my "MoI is dumbtown" stance.

Here's a hint for next time: You probably should have dropped that point before I actually looked up the facts instead of posting from memory.

So here is the moment where IG reveals why he has a scum read on Robo (noteworthy: this only happens after DCL has connected IG and Robo as possible scum):

Are you implying that I was not running a gambit, or are you saying you disagree with the conclusions drawn from it?

Both. I think you weren't running a gambit, and I disagree that only scum calls out unexplained townreads.

@ICE, also why do you think robo is scum, a quick read-through of your posts throughout day shows that you haven't shared that information with us.

Mostly because of his reactions around my and Arugula's wagon yesterday, also MoI as one scumbuddy focusing on me and Robo almost completely ignoring me fits well, and a heavy dose of gut.

Hold on, that's not what you said yesterday (not that you really said anything about Robo). The only time you mention Robo-scum is when you called him buddies with Aru. You never talk of Robo-MoI scum. You had MoI as probable town (not that stopped you from wasting all your time arguing with him and ignoring Robo completely).

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Arugula

Other scum reads: Robocopter
Leaning scum: LLD, Voided
Neutral or need to post more: Amrun, 2m1s, vijay, DCL
Unfortunately probably town: MoI, Hoopla, whisper
Town: AV

Posting to say I fully stand by those reads, and I believe the latest posts of Robo and Arugula confirm them - they definitely read like scum being very annoyed that their mislynch probably won't go through as easily as they hoped.

So robo magically becomes a scumread for you (which you have NEVER commented on all of day 2) despite that fact that you do not believe I attempted a gambit on him?

Not "magically". He already was a scumread in my reads post on D1, and on D2 I focused on MoI.

(Oh, and I see what you're trying to do here. No, it won't work.)

But hey, you must think MoI and Robo are scum buddies now.

And finally, this is the first thing you've said to Robo all game long:

Robo, what do you think of MoI?

I hope we all get to read Robo's findings before anyone is lynched.

IG's is completely ignoring his only other D1 scum read Robo (despite calling him scum again today with bs reasoning) in order to vote someone who up until the moment Aru was lynched was probably town and was not on the mislynch wagon.

This makes no sense.

VOTE: IceGuy

IG's AtE yesterday had me completely fooled and I can only assume he unvoted me either because he knew I wasn't going to get lynched, or to distance in case I was lynched. Also noteworthy: IceGuy resorted to AtE when he was close to being lynched. Aru actually posted right up until he was lynched, giving reads and input. I'm now going to go read Robo again (which I was doing the other day, then lost track after focusing on IG). Will be back a little later with an ISO breakdown. I don't know how this all fits in with DCL yet. I need to give him more thought, but for now I don't think he should be the lynch today.

[AurorusVox]

Whisper you never explained why I thought you were scum D1. Please do so now.