Mini 1349: Words with Scum (Game over!)


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Post Post #825 (ISO) » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:19 am

Post by IceGuy »

Voidedmafia wrote:
The only people on the Aru wagon he said he didn't have scumreads/suspisions on were me and Amrun, the L-1 and hammer votes. That's not disproving it.


...and whisper, who wasn't on the Arugula wagon but started the whole shebang by jumping off mine.


The point was about the content of the posts, not their length.


In the end, it boils down to the same thing: He said I'm scum here because I posted more in another game as town which was one year ago. "More" means "content" just as "length".
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Post Post #826 (ISO) » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:27 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

DCLXVI wrote:10-1 sounds good but it isn't. The majority of players in a game are going to be vt's so its fairly obvious that vt is going to be claimed a lot at first.

It actually is a bad tell that looks a lot better than it actually is.

10-1 is objectively a very good record for a tell, regardless of the tell's context, and isn't something you can just say "isn't good".

Just because the majority of the players are vt doesn't mean that scum suddenly can't claim VT to use as a safeclaim, as Thomith did in that very game (the fact that it was an open notwithstanding).

Besides, I believe you missed the explanation where it's not just claiming vt, but the thoughts and intents and such behind claiming vt.
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Post Post #827 (ISO) » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:29 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

IceGuy wrote:
Voidedmafia wrote:
The only people on the Aru wagon he said he didn't have scumreads/suspisions on were me and Amrun, the L-1 and hammer votes. That's not disproving it.


...and whisper, who wasn't on the Arugula wagon but started the whole shebang by jumping off mine.

Okay, I did forget her, but while she may have started to derail yours, she didn't in any way help with starting the Arug wagon.

IceGuy wrote:

The point was about the content of the posts, not their length.


In the end, it boils down to the same thing: He said I'm scum here because I posted more in another game as town which was one year ago. "More" means "content" just as "length".

More content is not the same as More length, though.

Also, for a little more elaboration, in 70s you tried supporting yourself (aka content), here you didn't.
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Post Post #828 (ISO) » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:32 am

Post by IceGuy »

Voidedmafia wrote:
Okay, I did forget her, but while she may have started to derail yours, she didn't in any way help with starting the Arug wagon.


Yes. In the end, it boils down to three people who did not derail my wagon jumping on Arugula's wagon once it became the dominant one, none of them hammering me or putting me on L-1.

That's not a "scum-driven wagon".


More content is not the same as More length, though.


Oh really? Tell me more.

Also, for a little more elaboration, in 70s you tried supporting yourself (aka content), here you didn't.


Uhm, no.

In the 70s game, I made a long-ass wallpost why MoI is scum.

In this game, I made a shorter, more succinct post why MoI is scum, and explained or expanded on parts when asked.

Check my games then and now, I've changed playstyle in this regard.
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Post Post #829 (ISO) » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:44 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

IceGuy wrote:Yes. In the end, it boils down to three people who did not derail my wagon jumping on Arugula's wagon once it became the dominant one, none of them hammering me or putting me on L-1.


This is absurd. You are trying to present it as there was a mass exodus from your votes and then suddenly the Arugula wagon appeared independantly.

That's crap of the highest order. For those interested in what ACTUALLY happened here's my summary of vote flow AGAIN from -

MoI wrote:Whisper unvotes him at Post 374. At this point the wagon composition (as shown in Post 375 are such –

IceGuy (4) Arugula, Voidedmafia, MagnaofIllusion, Amrun
whispersilk (3) 2minds1soul, AurorusVox, Robocopter87
Arugula (2) DCLXVI, IceGuy
Hoopla (2) Lady Lambdadelta, vijay2vasandani
DCLXVI (1) Hoopla

Not Voting (1) whispersilk


So Iceguy has 4 votes, Whisper 3, and Arugula and Hoopla 2. Here’s what happens next and demonstrates to me why Iceguy is being bailed out by his partners.

Whisper votes for AV at Post 377. First line of evidence that she’s Town in my scenario … she chooses to vote a singleton and not fuel the coming mislynch.

At Post 384 AV directly asks Robo is he would lynch Arugula over Whisper to keep Iceguy from being lynched. Both are voting Whisper at this stage but moving to Arugula would make his wagon equal with Iceguy’s. At Post 385 Robo votes Arugula and Post 386 AV votes Arugula. It’s important this interchange for multiple reasons.

1. In Post 382 Robo lists both Ice and AV as Null reads with Arugula as Null-scum and Whisper as Scum. Why is Robo so eager to work with a Null read AV to save Null read Iceguy to lynch Null-scum Arugula over his previous most scummy read Whisper? I could understand if he was willing to work closely with a strong Town read but AV was Null to Robo. Furthermore we’ve never seen any explanation why suddenly Robo has Arugula as more likely scum than Whisper.

2. AV has pretty much been focusing on Whisper after giving Arugula some cursory focus very early in the day. Yet he’s suddenly willing to shift only after Whisper (who is scum to him) unvotes Iceguy. Note that this doesn’t change his read on Whisper at all (as evidenced by today and post-hammer).

So the timing of this two-step is suspicious as fuck.

DCL pops in and keeps his vote on Arugula while not really commenting on anything other than Hoopla voting him at Post 414.

Vijay drops a Arugula vote at Post 430. This moves Arugula ahead of Iceguy by a score of 5-3 (Arugula had already moved his vote to Robocopter by this point).

So in a grand total of 45 posts Arugula went from a wagon of 2 to a wagon of 5 (with a 2 vote clearance from Ice-scum). And this coincides with Iceguy having been at L-2 for over 100 posts and his AtE flailing as a last ditch effort to keep away from the noose.

Couple that with Iceguy’s scummy play that got him that L-2 wagon in the first place Day 1 and you have the clear recipe for scum bailing out their partner ..


Iceguy can't actually argue any of the above so he keeps pretending repeating "WAK ITS ABSURD" like a brain damaged parrot is refutation of my theory.

VOTE: Iceguy

This should have happened yesterday as opposed to that terribad wagon on Arugula ...
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Post Post #830 (ISO) » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:47 am

Post by DCLXVI »

AurorusVox wrote:Actually yeah
Unvote; Vote: DCL
Terrible fucking start to the day.

vijay2vasandani wrote:Just rereading, I agreed with the sentiment that you started the day terribly.


Wrong, Auros was referring TO HIS OWN START (Auros had voted 3 people in his first three votes.)


After a 20 page day 1, that was the best bs excuse you had for placing a vote? Care to explain why your vote stayed on me if that was the only reason for putting it there.


Guys, vijay2visandani is going to need to be lynched sometime in a future day as well. don't forget this.


Pedit: I approve of that vote.
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Post Post #831 (ISO) » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:51 am

Post by IceGuy »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:
VOTE: Iceguy


Saving in case you ever accuse me of "opportunistically voting".
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Post Post #832 (ISO) » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:55 am

Post by AurorusVox »

Um
No DCL
I was referring to YOUR start.

Vote: Vijay


Here's a lynch we can all agree on.
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Post Post #833 (ISO) » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:59 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

IceGuy wrote:Saving in case you ever accuse me of "opportunistically voting".


Lulz.
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Post Post #834 (ISO) » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:59 am

Post by DCLXVI »

AurorusVox wrote:Um
No DCL
I was referring to YOUR start.


eh my bad, I certainly didn't see it that way.

regardless, that was still a terrible reason for vijay to vote me, and the fact that he has given no other reason yet kept his vote on me is definitely scummy.

But while I want a vijay lynch. I would much rather see ICEguy or robo hang today.
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Post Post #835 (ISO) » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:26 am

Post by whispersilk »

IceGuy wrote:When his wagon became the prime wagon (except for me).


So he only became a scum read when he had more votes than you?

Cool.

Did you suspect Robo when you asked MoI what he thought of him?


When?


/sigh

As I've already said, you only mention Robo once, where you asked MoI what he thinks of him and LLD. Did you think Robo was scum when you asked him that?

This was not "wasted".


So arguing bullshit for pages and pages with a town read is not wasting time? Is that what you are saying?

I had various scum reads in the beginning. I had different scum reads later.


Yes, you had me as a scum read, which changed when you realised I wasn't getting lynched.

So far, you have completely ignored why when I change reads it's scummy
, but when you change reads regarding me it's perfectly fine.


No, I don't think I have. :)

So why did you vote for Arugula again? I don't recall you giving a reason when you voted.


Because I had a scum read on him.


A scum read that appeared out of nowhere when you voted him, yes I'd noticed.

You mean you announced your pressure vote in this post?


What are you referring to with "this post"?


lol, the post of yours that I quoted directly beneath? Here, I will quote it again:

IG wrote:And no, I didn't disengage from you. I voted 2m1s to show him his behavior was inacceptable and to possible get a reaction, which succeeded. I moved my vote back to you when it came back to lynching actual scum and not shitty lurkhydras.



A reaction from whom?


2m1s obviously, maybe MoI.


So, you claim you laid a pressure vote to "obviously" get a reaction from 2for1, and you claim your vote succeeded in getting that. Can you please quote the reaction from 2for1 that you are referring to.

You also said they had made posts which portrayed them as annoyed. So my reason for quoting the one and only post that Robo made during this time frame, was because in that post Robo attacks Aru TWICE. How did attacking the person you thought was his scum buddy lead you to believe he was annoyed scum?


"Annoyed" as in "annoyed their easy mislynch is going away". Also, how is the whole "Robo attacks Arugula" stuff relevant? Do you immediately drop two scumreads when they attack each other? Never heard of bussing especially as an Arugula wagon wasn't completely outlandish?


No, this is precisely why I asked you earlier what you thought about the fact they were voting each other and did you think it was a bus. But you ignored that question.

Nothing. My problem is this: your "connections" might be getting erased and drawn, but the one constant is Robo - someone you've said two words to all game and have failed to attack in any way shape or form. My problem is that you're calling him scum while placing no pressure and going after people you claim are his buddies while at the same time trying to imply that just because you two people are scum doesn't mean they are scum together. Give me a break.


No, Robo is not the "one constant". The Robo scumread came relatively late on D1 and he was always a minor suspect as compared to others such as Arugula and MoI. Is that so hard to grasp?


How the hell could Robo have been a "minor suspect" compared to MoI when you gave Robo a scum read and MoI a probable town read? What rubbish. And as for Aru, you only gave him a scum read when you voted him. Until then, you'd never called him scum. You didn't vote for him until his wagon surpassed your own. Robo is clearly the one constant in your scum reads from yesterday and your reads from today.

Also, the fact that you call Robo scum distancing by completely ignoring you, while his partner MoI tunnels you, is ridiculous considering you've been ignoring him to the same extent.


That was an associative tell. What you're doing is again circular reasoning.


No, it's me pointing out you're accusing Robo of ignoring you, while completely ignoring him. That's called scummy.

Well timed such as your sudden change to "IceGuy is scum" when a DCL lynch was imminent? Doesn't that look like "well timed"?


Are you implying that my case on you was aimed at saving DCL?

It is when you completely ignore the constant (Robo) and go after the alleged connections (one who flipped town), just like you're doing.


What? That doesn't actually make sense.


I give up.

Can't you distinguish between "attacking" and "responding to attacks"? That the only reason I posted so much with regard to MoI and you was to defend myself from attacks, but my attacking went elsewhere?


Ok, I can see the difference. Where did your attacks go?

My point is that your answer here contradicts your "case" on me above. You claim my scumreads are made invalid by connections between them.


No, I haven't claimed anything of the sort. I'm saying that your actions and voting makes no sense given that you have had a constant scum read since yesterday, yet you've not attacked him or even said a word to him. You attack the people you connect him to.
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Post Post #836 (ISO) » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:33 am

Post by IceGuy »

whispersilk wrote:
So he only became a scum read when he had more votes than you?

Cool.


No.


/sigh

As I've already said, you only mention Robo once, where you asked MoI what he thinks of him and LLD. Did you think Robo was scum when you asked him that?


If I remember correctly, I already had an inkling, but not a scum read. It was only a few pages in the game.


So arguing bullshit for pages and pages with a town read is not wasting time? Is that what you are saying?


So you're agreeing with me that what you and MoI said was bullshit? Or what's your point?


Yes, you had me as a scum read, which changed when you realised I wasn't getting lynched.


[citation needed]

So far, you have completely ignored why when I change reads it's scummy
, but when you change reads regarding me it's perfectly fine.


No, I don't think I have. :)


And you keep ignoring it.


A scum read that appeared out of nowhere when you voted him, yes I'd noticed.


You mean like the scum read on me you have?


So, you claim you laid a pressure vote to "obviously" get a reaction from 2for1, and you claim your vote succeeded in getting that. Can you please quote the reaction from 2for1 that you are referring to.


No, it failed. It got a reaction from MoI, though.


No, this is precisely why I asked you earlier what you thought about the fact they were voting each other and did you think it was a bus. But you ignored that question.


Yes, because it's irrelevant.


How the hell could Robo have been a "minor suspect" compared to MoI when you gave Robo a scum read and MoI a probable town read?


I'm talking about D2, obviously.

And as for Aru, you only gave him a scum read when you voted him. Until then, you'd never called him scum. You didn't vote for him until his wagon surpassed your own.


Actually, that was the only time I directly gave him a scum read. I confronted him earlier regarding his scummy behavior, though.


Robo is clearly the one constant in your scum reads from yesterday and your reads from today.


Which does not mean he was always the prime scum read. And he was only a "constant" from late D1 on.


No, it's me pointing out you're accusing Robo of ignoring you, while completely ignoring him. That's called scummy.


I'm not accusing Robo of ignoring me. I was drawing an associative tell.


Are you implying that my case on you was aimed at saving DCL?


It certainly looks like it, doesn't it?

DCL gets run up to L-1 and suddenly his wagon falls apart and a bunch of people are voting me.


I give up.


Good, because it still does not make any sense.


Ok, I can see the difference. Where did your attacks go?


Various people such as Hoopla, Arugula, LLD.


No, I haven't claimed anything of the sort. I'm saying that your actions and voting makes no sense given that you have had a constant scum read since yesterday, yet you've not attacked him or even said a word to him. You attack the people you connect him to.


See, that's why your "case" doesn't make any sense.

Why does a (relatively) constant scum read always have to be the prime one?

Is it too hard to understand that some scum reads are always there but never particularly strong because they're eclipsed by others?

Or are you claiming this on purpose? You can't be that incompetent.
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Post Post #837 (ISO) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:55 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

This thread needs Amrun to actually post some content as opposed to posting “Content coming” and disappearing from the thread while posting elsewhere.

2for1 also needs to do some posting

I think it is pretty clear that Iceguy is playing 100% reactive. When he is under pressure he does exactly what he accuses me of doing … walling with said person in an attempt to start a War of Attrition.He did it with me yesterday and now he is doing the same with Whisper.

When he’s not under direct scrutiny he’s lurking and fluffing (look at his posts when DCL was wagonned) as opposed to scum-hunting.

We simply need two more votes and we can correct the mistake that was made yesterday in letting him off the hook …
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Post Post #838 (ISO) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:15 am

Post by AurorusVox »

Inb4 iceguy townflip

Can we lynch vijay first?
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Post Post #839 (ISO) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:46 am

Post by DCLXVI »

collect: B6
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Post Post #840 (ISO) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:48 am

Post by whispersilk »

Fuck it. I'm having doubts again.

I really hate this game.

Vox, why is IG town?
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Post Post #841 (ISO) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:20 am

Post by Amrun »

Ugh. I'm sorry, guys. The only game I haven't caught up on is this one. I just burnt out from catch ups, and my internet was inexplicably out last night but is luckily back today.

I don't know if I can do it today, either... I'm packing for the train trip back home. I apologize. I will, at least, look at the current board and do my flip today. I will try to catch up today but it probably won't happen. If not today, tomorrow.
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Post Post #842 (ISO) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:21 am

Post by Amrun »

Flip: F3
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Post Post #843 (ISO) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:25 pm

Post by whispersilk »

Seriously, LLD and 2for1 need to either get the fuck in this game, or get the fuck out and let someone who actually wants to play replace in. This is getting ridiculous.

Amrun and vijay are almost as bad.
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Post Post #844 (ISO) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:50 pm

Post by Robocopter87 »

Did I promise making a post about MoI? Yeah, I'm way to lazy atm. Gonna have to put a hold to that. I'll do it. But to be honest it is as uninteresting as Nascar.
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


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Post Post #845 (ISO) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:56 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

MoI, why single out Amrun for lack of content when she has been on Vacation?

Where as I have been actually avoiding this thread?
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Post Post #846 (ISO) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:11 pm

Post by Amrun »

Okay, can't do it, too tired, but I see at least one iceguy vote and I feel so lame without voting.

Vote: IceGuy


I tried and got like 2 pages in. Blegh. Finish tomorrow.
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Post Post #847 (ISO) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:32 pm

Post by vijay2vasandani »

Collect: H6
coming back after a 3 year break.
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Post Post #848 (ISO) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:37 pm

Post by Robocopter87 »

So much apathy in this game. I feel bad but not really.
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


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Post Post #849 (ISO) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 pm

Post by DCLXVI »

Amrun wrote:Okay, can't do it, too tired, but I see at least one iceguy vote and I feel so lame without voting.

Vote: IceGuy


I tried and got like 2 pages in. Blegh. Finish tomorrow.


ICEguy is at L-1 with this vote. You should check the amount of votes on a person the next time you vote them.
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