Mini 1348- Dragon Ball Z: Saiyan Saga Mafia (Game Over)

[Slandaar]

Yates why do you think I am scum? short to the point case please

[syndromeofadown]

First of all, Goku is -the- main character. You could make the argument that Gohan was the main character, but definitely NOT in the saiyan saga. That would be around the cell saga and maybe garlic jr. but I don't remember if that's canon. Piccolo is -a- main character but not -the- main character.

Second of all, this doesn't matter as I've seen cases of -the- main character being VT, scum fakeclaim, and power roles. It's irrelevant.

Third of all I was in Batman vs. Marvel mafia. If I recall correctly the power roles were Batgirl, Robins + the Joker and Batman was a scum fake claim. Who are the main characters of batman? That would definitely be batman, robin and the joker. So I can kind of understand his point there, even if the premise that power roles = main characters is wrong. Oh and superman was a power role there too, go ahead and try to say superman isn't THE iconic image of DC.

[MagnaofIllusion]

First of all, Goku is -the- main character. You could make the argument that Gohan was the main character, but definitely NOT in the saiyan saga.

Nope. It is just as much the story of Gohan's growing up and coming of age as it is of Goku. Hell, he's as much a Deus Ex Machina plot device in the Saiyann saga as he is a character. I'm not saying Goku is chopped liver but he's certainly not as center stage as in the Freiza Sage, as an example.

[Thor665]

I'll agree the lack of reads look suspect, but I'm worried you're in a tunnel if you're taking everything he's done and calling it scummy, because unless he's like a drmyshotty level player clearly everything he has done isn't a scumtell.

And now you're down for BK scum? You do realize if he is scum Yates is almost definitely town, right?

So let me get this straight – you are ‘concerned’ that I am tunneling Yates. Yet when I offer up that I find BK scummy and possibly will lynch him you go after me saying “BK being scum means Yates is Town”?

Yes, I don't actually see what your issue with that is. You're so sold on Yates as scum, yet BK scum tends to scream Yates is town.
Do you think you're tunneling, by the by?

Furthermore enlighten me about why BK scum means Yates is Town ..

I don't know what your case on him is, but if he is scum it looks to me like he's the one going for the town points of not on the wagon. The rest of the case on him would be 'he's a derp' so I'm guessing it's his reactions to the wagon twigging you. You've now indicated some sort of 'distancing' theory that has him as a Yates scumpartner - but if that's true and is your case on him it's kinda derp to even consider lynching him first.

So what is the BK case?

[Thor665]

First of all, Goku is -the- main character. You could make the argument that Gohan was the main character, but definitely NOT in the saiyan saga.

Nope. It is just as much the story of Gohan's growing up and coming of age as it is of Goku. Hell, he's as much a Deus Ex Machina plot device in the Saiyann saga as he is a character. I'm not saying Goku is chopped liver but he's certainly not as center stage as in the Freiza Sage, as an example.

I'm coming out on the "I think you watched a different DBZ than I did" side of this.

Goku is, was, and always will be the main character. They *tried* to pass the torch in the Cell saga...maybe, but didn't do it. I would happily be willing to compare the amount of screen time Goku had in the Frieza Saga vs. Gohan - I don't think there is even a contest there. He traveled through hell, developed super martial arts, unlocked super saiyan, and defeated the big bad and saved the universe.

Gohan had his inner potential unlocked, made friends with Dende, and helped hold off stuff and keep track of the Dragon Balls until Goku showed up to save the day.

[BK201]

Gohan received the torch towards the end of the Cell saga, but lost it as soon as he started dressing up as a super hero. I think originally the creator planned on passing the torch to Gohan, but it never really happened.

[BK201]

Gohan did receive the torch in future Trunks' timeline though!

[Thor665]

And lost an arm and was mildly relevant till he got lolstomped and needed some Vegeta bloodline to avenge his sorry backside, yeah.

[BK201]

It was 2 v 1 though. When he lost his arm it was basically 1 arm vs 4, he did some work.

[PeregrineV]

Coming back from Limited Access. Will begin catching up today.

[snifit]

The Benmage counterwagon looks pretty damn desperate.

Yup. Now on to your thoughts since you hate both wagons … why aren’t you doing more to actually push the person you are voting? You seem to have just parked your vote and are riding out the day.

I don't think shitting up the thread like you seem to enjoy is useful for town. I've said who I'd prefer to lynch and gave reasons. Also, saying I'll be willing to move my vote for deadline = vote parking? No, I'm not going to lynch a town read if I can help it. No, that isn't "vote parking".

I think the core of the Benmage wagon is at least as solid as the Yates one - is it just the speed of it that bugs you, or do you have specific issues?
Also, why do you like the Yates wagon better?

What is the core of the Benmage wagon? You had an exchange with him that you flagged as odd. Syndrome is shamelessly sheeping you (even though you were voting him when he replaced in). Johnny is voting him because he doesn't want to lynch Yates. I'd have to go and look at why Yates is voting him, but I'm sure the reason his vote is still there is because it's the alternative wagon at this point.
I'm more willing to lynch Yates because honestly, his reaction to the claims

has

been weird. I hate hate hate the way Acosmist pushed on Yates, but all else aside there are accusations against Yates that have merit (though I disagree that they are true). My reads have been messy today and I'm definitely open to being wrong about Yates. If Yates is scum, then he was caught and I was wrong about him. If Benmage is scum, I feel like he was just picked at random.
___

@People voting Yates
Assuming Slandaar is town, does Yates' reaction to his claim really make sense? Yeah, it's weird that he suggested a townGoku might not counterclaim Slandaar: put that aside. If Goku is town, scum don't want to push for his lynch. I could see pushing a case on Yates if he posted right away that he doubted the claim, before anyone had unvoted (like, say, dicknose); scum failing a reaction test, sure. But that's not how it happened. The wagon dissolved, then Yates verified who Goku was, and THEN Yates posted his doubts about the claim. I just don't see that coming from scum.

[snifit]

Oh yeah.

Vote: syndrome

Is anyone happy having this guy in the game? I'd much rather lynch someone who is intentionally not contributing then either of the wagons.

[snifit]

PS I'll be around for the next few hours but I go to work 5 hours before deadline.

[PeregrineV]

Another reason to vote Snifit is that he replaced Psyche. Thats a bit of a scum-tell on Psyche's meta imo. As town he is very involved and awesome.

So he drew a scum PM because the Mod knew that Psyche was going to replace out of all of his games due to schedule? That's awesome that pappums is psychic and new to tailor his game roles to meta of the players IN ADVANCE!

This response to this quote doesn't make sense. Please re-read BK quote and respond again.

[PeregrineV]

Sup everybody. I'm not very good at this game so I'll mainly be sheeping other players. I'll probably sheep thor since he looks the most town on first glance.

At what point in your mafia career did you decide you weren't very good at mafia?

[BK201]

*effort post*

Town

MagnaofIllusion(dicknose) - something dicknose did made me think he was town. I'm not going to specify so I don't tell scum how to town-tell me, but Magna hasn't changed my read on this slot.

mcqueen(mattp)

- I miss mattp and think mcqueen is town for matt's play. mcqueen hasn't said much.

Acosmist

- town cus of claim, and some of mattp's early logic made sense.

Slandaar

- thought he was townish before his claim.

Slight Town

Benmage - gut
Yates - no krillin counter-claim + the case on him is what exactly? disagreement about slandaar's claim?

Null

Thor665 - null/town
syndromeofadown(idanny) - null/scum

Scum

JohnnyFarrar - gut gut gut
PeregrineV - If Johnny is scum, PV is likely a partner. See early posts. Ignoring association tells, PV is null/scum.
Agent_Ireland - gut gut
snifit - gut

[BK201]

I was going to bold all of the names, guess I forgot.

[PeregrineV]

He doesn't join the game until 6 pages in, votes psyche AFTER he requests a replacement (for "vote hopping"), votes yates for being sarcastic, gets into that whole goku debacle, votes yates again claiming we're close to the deadline, gives a

sad

case in 767, and that's it. Literally all he's done.

To boil down your accusation;

He entered the game slow.
Votes for reasons you don't agree with even though he does give reasons.
Doesn't make cases to your standards.

To boil it down further;

You think he's a bad player.

Why is he scum though? I

get

that he's a weak player. I've said as much. I AGREE with that case...but I don't see how that makes him scum particularly. You're pointing at playstyle and trying to tell me it's alignment based. I guess maybe if you see Psyche/Snifit and Yates as super obvious town that he's trying to mislynch without much effort you could argue that as the case but...really? I've got strong town reads on both of them and even I don't see it as that likely a motive. I think he's playing to the best of his ability and is doing so regardless of his alignment - so I don't see any of that helping me spot scum or town.

This isn't a newbie, man, c'mon.

You should at least let Agent defend himself first before jumping in. He just ignored him in the next post after Johnny states his case.

[syndromeofadown]

Oh yeah.

Vote: syndrome

Is anyone happy having this guy in the game? I'd much rather lynch someone who is intentionally not contributing then either of the wagons.

Well I hope you know that's very offensive and rude. You can dick around and vote me because you think I'm a weak player and an easy lynch target but the rest of us will be out scumhunting.

[BK201]

please join me on the snifit wagon.

[PeregrineV]

So deadline is midnight my time. I don't see myself voting Yates or Aco or Slandaar right now.

Vote: BenMage

I'll be back, but other good candidates are snifit, BK, Agent, mcqueen.

And also want responses to above posts. kthxbai

[snifit]

Can you link me an example of your scumhunting, syndrome?

[BK201]

So deadline is midnight my time. I don't see myself voting Yates or Aco or Slandaar right now.

Vote: BenMage

I'll be back, but other good candidates are snifit, BK, Agent, mcqueen.

And also want responses to above posts. kthxbai

What the hell is this?

[Thor665]

You should at least let Agent defend himself first before jumping in. He just ignored him in the next post after Johnny states his case.

Nah, what defense would we have got? "I'm not a bad player, this is why I did this, this, this, waaah!" If Anyone thinks that would be useful then please go ahead and hit him up for it, it's still there to be had.

The case being a scum case is inherently flawed however, and I found it worthwhile to nail Johnny for that because I'd rather get a read off Johnny than AI at this stage.

[BK201]

Thor, join me on Johnny lynch!?!
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Johnny