Open 420: Medical Mafia - That's all, folks!

[Robocopter87]

Okay, fine.

VOTE: Jackal711

Reason being?

[Zachrulez]

... I was just previewing a post where I was going to vote Jackal, but now it would be the hammer.

Why is everyone talking about some non-existent counter claim? What scum would put themselves in a 1v1 D1 for a role that is less effective than the rest of the roles save for the fact that they are confirmable.

It doesn't make logical sense, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible that it happened. In this case it seems it didn't.

We need TTS to declare whether he's countering or not, and I'm waiting for that before I do anything.

^Posts like this are bad. You're saying your going to wait for a counter claim which has a pretty much non-existent chance of happening before you actually decide where to go? Why do you even need a potential counter claim before moving forward? It seems pretty clear cut if an incredibly unlikely counter claim ever does happen we are going back on the Rach wagon.[/quote]

Like I said above, just because it's a bad play doesn't mean that it's impossible that it actually happened. Scum make mistakes and play poorly just like townies do. I wanted that possibility exhausted before I went and contributed a vote to another lynch.

I was interested in seeing if TTS had anything to say being that I was in a position to hammer him up into Jackal self voted, but now that he's not at lynch -1, there's no benefit for waiting for that because the situation is gone.

Jackal, can you post your reads on everyone? Why did you self vote? (I want to see if he actually responds to these questions before I hammer.)

[Robocopter87]

This isn't a newbie game anymore, I'm not backing off because he self voted. Hammer that after he gives his info.

[yellowbounder]

Self voting is never useful to the town if you're a town member, and it's playing against your own win condition (like 99.99% of the time) if you're mafia.

It's just bad play. But I'm hesitant to hammer, because I'm not reading scum that much from Jackal, just general not-helpful.

[Mortontfrh]

I'm doubtful that Jackal will ever pull his head out of his ass, but there's no benefit from quick hammering him either.

[FuDuzn]

Wait Jackyll self voted? And why can't we hammer him? How is doing that even remotely beneficial to town?

[RachMarie]

I have seen Jackal self vote before and turned out to be town gahhh I think I am keeping my vote on TTS for now

[Jackal711]

Unvote, Vote: TTSH

I will place my vote here for now. Still appears scummy to me.

Rach is confirmed town to me because of the lack of counter-claim.

Everyone else is null/town lean based on the lack of a quickhammer.

[Venmar]

I doubt scum would do a random quickhammer Day 1.

Jackal, why did you self-vote? Were you trying to fish for quickhammers, sticking with your meta, or what?

[Robocopter87]

This is absolutely ridiculous.

I want Jackal dead on the grounds of prohibiting the town from actually moving forward.

On the downside, being anti town and being scum are two different things.

It annoys the crap outta me that he can get away with this crap behavior though.

[yellowbounder]

I doubt scum would do a random quickhammer Day 1.

Jackal, why did you self-vote? Were you trying to fish for quickhammers, sticking with your meta, or what?

Is the implication that town would be more likely to quick hammer?

[Jackal711]

Scum these days are apparently too smart to fall for that anymore...

I have, in the past, caught scum with that gambit. In a 2-scum setup, sacrificing 1 town for a near-guaranteed scum lynch the next day is overall a good trade.

[Zachrulez]

Scum these days are apparently too smart to fall for that anymore...

I have, in the past, caught scum with that gambit. In a 2-scum setup, sacrificing 1 town for a near-guaranteed scum lynch the next day is overall a good trade.

Link(s)?

[Venmar]

I doubt scum would do a random quickhammer Day 1.

Jackal, why did you self-vote? Were you trying to fish for quickhammers, sticking with your meta, or what?

Is the implication that town would be more likely to quick hammer?

- Nope.

[yellowbounder]

Scum these days are apparently too smart to fall for that anymore...

I have, in the past, caught scum with that gambit. In a 2-scum setup, sacrificing 1 town for a near-guaranteed scum lynch the next day is overall a good trade.

Link(s)?

I'm sure a scenario that Jackal has described has happened at some point, maybe even involving him.

The question is, regardless whether it's happened in the past (meta), is whether it's worth it in this game? It seems kinda risky, especially given the strong possibility that we might lose more than one person at night.

[Zachrulez]

The question for me is whether the gambit he's claiming is genuine or not.

[RachMarie]

To give you some idea of Jackal's play

His ISO from Newbie 1221 where he ended up replacing out AFTER claiming JK

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

[Zachrulez]

So the heat has been steadily shifting toward Jackal, and thinking about it I don't really have much of a clue on him other than the fact that my gut tells me he's town.

Cue 6 days of lurking from TTS. (Whose last post was a "not countering" post.) To me it seems like TTS is content to let the day shift toward a Jackal lynch without lifting a finger of his own to make it happen. That kinda goes to when he was attacking me earlier accusing me of trying secure lynches without taking responsibility for them. Staying on me when I'm clearly not going to be lynched is the ultimate in avoiding responsibility for a lynch by having a vote that's somewhere that's actually useful.

So yeah, I'm declaring my intention to hammer TTS. (Who I believe is currently at 4 votes.) If nothing changes by this time tomorrow, I will cast my vote for TTS then.

[Robocopter87]

Scum these days are apparently too smart to fall for that anymore...

I have, in the past, caught scum with that gambit. In a 2-scum setup, sacrificing 1 town for a near-guaranteed scum lynch the next day is overall a good trade.

And then he goes and covers it up by saying it was a gambit.

The problem with your "gambit" is this.

Somebody hammering doesn't make them scum. So you dying wouldn't have caught any scum.

[Time Traveling Scumhunter]

To: The Future of O420
From: TTSH

This isn't a newbie game anymore, I'm not backing off because he self voted. Hammer that after he gives his info.

Pretty hard to get anything out of him at all. He may either just be an idiot playing this game or someone who's trying to use his idiot meta. Either way, he's useless to us this game.

What happens if every doctor targets Rach? Which wins out? Will the protection roles keep the killing roles from going through? Need to look back.

No vote for now in case something happens in the next 24 hrs. or so.

Best,
Time Traveling Scumhunter

[Venmar]

I might be wrong, but that is just a waste of our roles TTS, Rachmarie is a confirmed Nurse until there is a counter-claim, and wasting our resources on her is a really bad idea in my opinion. Even if we were to do it, there would be no kill because the cpr doctor would save her from the quack doctor, and the normal + weak doctor will also give her a second and third protection. The naive doctor will obviously have no effect. Result? No kill, and a bad suggestion.

[Time Traveling Scumhunter]

To: future
From: TTSH

Okay I looked at it and it looks like Doctor, Weak, Paranoid would all provide protection for three protections. Quack will try and kill (and neutralize the protect of one of those). CPR will try to kill since Rach wouldn't be dying at this point (and neutralize yet another). The Mafia kill will try to go through, and take out the third protect. So rach should be safe.

And I imagine some of you are wondering why we'd take all that effort: because Rach is a confirmed town, and it'll force scum to kill one of the doctors. The doctors, correct me if I'm wrong, will flip with what they are. Getting information on what else we have out there would be useful.

Finally, the question is whether Rach, who is RBed, will take over the doctor who is killed. If so, then Rach will know exactly what type of doctor she is. YAY! If the roleblock works on nurses,

Mod: Does the paranoid doctor block the nurse from taking over?
Doc protects protect against Doc kills, correct?

Sincerely,
TTSH

[Venmar]

CPR will NOT try to kill Rach because he protects his target should it be killed, so he protects her from either the mafia kill or the quack doctor. So she should still have 2 protections left after both attempts,

Doctors just flip doctor. You aren't told which type of doctor you are, it isn't in your PM, so you flip just "doctor". If people flipped their real sanity/modifier, it would start to narrow down peoples own modifier and sanity, it could really help town i think.

How come you don't know this? Don't you have a doctor pm?

[yellowbounder]

The PMs are in the first couple of posts. Maybe he's just not read the rules closely enough.

[Zachrulez]

I am pretty sure doctors simply flip doctor.

Everyone targeting Rach would save her from death, but it would also require every doctor role to be on her which gives the scum the ability to easily kill anyone else.