Mini 1349: Words with Scum (Game over!)

[PeregrineV]

Also,

town can look and see what letters other may be able to form and thus be able to prepare going into the night

. Of course, it is entirely possible for scum to fake out the town by making them waste good combinations that night and then using theirs the next, among other scenarios, but I don't believe that it does

nothing

.

And what will town be able to do with this information "going into night"? And how will town "waste a good combination"?

Are you playing intentionally dumb with me? Serious question.

No. We are going to give you a scenario.

1. MagnaofIllusion gets COP
3. AurorusVox gets CPR Doc
4. IceGuy gets HID
5. Lady Lambdadelta *** gets PGO
7. PeregrineV (replaced 2minds1soul *** Day 2) gets VIG
8. Robocopter87 * get WHM

If this were to happen, and everyone saw it, what will town be able to do with this information "going into night"? And how will town have "wasted a good combination"?

Double requesting before taking flipped letter.

Why is this scummy? Why should I not make sure that no one needs the letter I was indicating (a "D" in this case, which actually has no pro-scum words in any of the combinations involving it)? Would you rather I just snatch a letter from the board and potentially prevent another town player from making, say, DC or HID?

If a town player needed a "D", they would take it before scum.

Say I wanted to take "D" because I was thinking about using it (whether this statement is true or not is irrelevant, btw). However, another townie may have really needed that "D" to make one of the aforementioned words (as both are rather strong roles). If I'm presumably only getting the first letter to the combination of either and I don't have 1-2 prerequisites, but the other player just needs that one tile, why shouldn't I state my intention to ensure that the townie in question pipes up and gets his tile?

You did ask.

EBWOP: That being said, I'm interested in collecting the "D". Anyone object?

Twice.

Also: Last call for the "D" tile on the board! I wish to collect in one of my next couple of posts.

If you are town, then you wouldn't be preventing town from having that power, now would you? So why would that be a concern?

See above.

You need a D. MoI needs a D.
Who should have the D?

This is a mindset that makes you scummy. If you are town and wanted to DOC or HID, you would grab it. Instead, you were worried that you might be called on it, since your porbably scum.
Part of the scum "play it safe" mentality.

Confirmation bias.
Also, see above.

Town players know that no one is more town than themselves. You seem to know that others are "more town" than you, so you wanted to avoid stepping on people toes.

[PeregrineV]

Not sure what you mean here.

I'm outright saying I don't buy your "Scum don't almost get lynched Day 1 and then act the same Day 2" reasoning. It doesn't reflect reality and frankly looks like grasping to over-justify your Iceguy Town read.

How does it "not reflect reality"? Or, if you prefer the more academic approach, please compare and contrast IceGuy's day1 play and day2 play. How are they the same? How are they different?

And there is another reason for my IceGuy=town read.

Which just went into the toilet when I confirmed it.

But the above question still stands.

[PeregrineV]

IceGuy took tile F4, collecting an I.

--- DAY 1 ------------------------------------------------
IceGuy took tile F6, collecting a D.

Someone hammer this scum bag, his reaction alone reeks of "scum raging for being put at L-1 by someone who is barely reading the thread".

Yeah let's hammer before collecting, sounds like a good plan!

My letters are G, I, and C.

@Icy - Please explain why your claim doesn't match Quilford records.

[IceGuy]

@Icy - Please explain why your claim doesn't match Quilford records.

What?

Day 1:

I'd like to take an R, a T or a D. Any objections?

IceGuy took tile F6, collecting a D.

Day 2:

My letters are G, I, and C.

IceGuy took tile F4, collecting an I.

[AurorusVox]

He's asking where your D has gone.
You should have claimed GICD.

[IceGuy]

I wasn't claiming what my letters are, I was claiming which letters I'd like to take.

[AurorusVox]

ICEGUY: CONFIRMED SCUM.

At the point you posted that, there were no Cs.
You've been caught out in a lie.

Vote: ICEGuy

[Robocopter87]

(Yes, I'm starting to think IceMoI is TVT)

/disagree

I believe that there HAS to be a scum in this. They are tunneling to deeply to actually be town vs town. And the reason I believe that MoI is scum is the way he says, "When I flip town" or "When he flips scum" with such confidence. It goes beyond normal town confidence. I mean, town can get confident but MoI is going over the top confident and he is refusing to believe any alternative than to what he is saying.
I think the scum is MoI, and the town is Ice.

Boys boys! There's no need to fight over me, you're both beneath my very high standards~.

Now, make yourself useful instead of whoring yourselves out over whose junk is larger. (The answer is clearly Godzilla).

Vote: Vijay

You make this game worth reading :3

I wasn't claiming what my letters are, I was claiming which letters I'd like to take.

I can clearly see how Pere got the idea though. Your statement can be read both ways.

[PeregrineV]

I wasn't claiming what my letters are, I was claiming which letters I'd like to take.

I see that now, but thats not how I first read it. But AV is right, there was no C on the board.

[AurorusVox]

I'm not seeing ICE votes here.
I'm betting that post was a fakeclaim but ICE is scum, checked, saw that those WEREN'T his letters, and forgot.

[IceGuy]

ICEGUY: CONFIRMED SCUM.

At the point you posted that, there were no Cs.
You've been caught out in a lie.

Vote: ICEGuy

I don't think people should indicate what letters they want, because I can pretty much tell what you have now.

I expect people to muddy the waters.

Basically, not all of those letters are/were real to not give scum too much information. I don't know whether I forgot to check it was on the board, or checked the wrong post, but that was not intended.

Also, you seem to have been dying to justify that vote - considering that whole thing doesn't make any sense as scum maneuver.

[AurorusVox]

Refer to my previous post.

[AurorusVox]

Now, re: muddying water, I understand but if you're claiming hijinks to confuse scum, you MUST have checked that the letters were there. Otherwise, scum know that letter is obfuscation and the whole point of muddying the water is lost.

[IceGuy]

Refer to my previous post.

Yeah, and it doesn't make sense. Why should I have claimed my current letters out of the blue when I agreed the day before one should claim the three letters one wants to take?

Now, re: muddying water, I understand but if you're claiming hijinks to confuse scum, you MUST have checked that the letters were there. Otherwise, scum know that letter is obfuscation and the whole point of muddying the water is lost.

As I said, I can't remember for sure, but it was not intentional (obviously).

[AurorusVox]

Why should I have claimed my current letters out of the blue when I agreed the day before one should claim the three letters one wants to take?

Unvote; Vote: Vijay

[Voidedmafia]

[/quote]

Part specific to this game: If AV can spell FROG and leave the game with a win, how will that affect my night actions as town?

If AV spells FROG and that somehow allows him to win, then any further discussion about this point is moot because the game's over unless his wincon states that the game continues even if he leaves.

Not my point and you know it.

Considering the scenario, you already nulled any point you were trying to make unless you clear up what happens when he leaves.

However, with the proper tracking, when night hits you guys could coordinate on the best way to both obtain scum powers and prevent town from getting powers.

...So, why would I continually update it in-thread instead of doing it in the QT?

Feign ignorance more.

What, exactly, is the difference between a constant update and doing it each night in the QT? In other words, explain to me the scum gain from doing so.

And see previous response about scum appearing helpful.

This point is so friggin dead.

So, because of a single exception, I should totally discard the whole theory? Throw the baby out with the bathwater?

I didn't say it was scum-only

Didn't you?

PS- Yes, I am.

PS: No you aren't

[PeregrineV]

@Voided- You obviously feel you don't have to have real answers. And you didn't answer the questions I posted.

My point is explain in more detail with the scenario I gave above.

You have only a few days in your scum QT, while the thread is open weeks at a time. If you can do something to benefit scum while appearing town, YOU tell me what scum gains.

I said its another reason I think your scummy.

Yes, I still am.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Everyone

– I’d like you to look at Iceguy’s posting pattern the last week or so. Note – it’s completely passive. He appears when someone brings up his name to argue with people and when he can’t argue fact he goes to “Lulz, I’ll insulting rhetoric it up” mode. He’s not interested in finding and lynching scum. He’s interested in survival.

VOTE HIM!

--

I believe that there HAS to be a scum in this. They are tunneling to deeply to actually be town vs town.

And the reason I believe that MoI is scum is the way he says, "When I flip town" or "When he flips scum" with such confidence. It goes beyond normal town confidence.

I mean, town can get confident but MoI is going over the top confident and he is refusing to believe any alternative than to what he is saying.
I think the scum is MoI, and the town is Ice.

Oh you cheeky, cheeky scumbag. The bolded is such bullshit manufacturing of a reason that it makes me chuckle.

When Iceguy gets hung and flips scum you are next. Get your Rope-holder (aka your neck) ready!

You make this game worth reading :3

Nice buddying! Now I can slide LLD way down on the list of your third partner!

--

(Yes, I'm starting to think IceMoI is TVT)

Why? What has Iceguy done at all that makes you think he’s approaching the game from a Town perspective?

Your recent Vote / Unvote sequence makes me face-palm …

--

@Peregrine

– What was the point of posting the sample Scum PM in Post 1046?

So, because of a single exception, I should totally discard the whole theory? Throw the baby out with the bathwater?

I didn't say it was scum-only, I said it added to the factors for which I find Voided scummy.

Curious why you think Voided is so town that you are leaping to his defense with faulty logic.

No, the faulty logic lies with you. You’ve cherry-picked two examples of scum doing something (ironically in games where you say you as Town did the exact same thing) and are extrapolating that it is more likely to come from scum.

You are basically arguing against your own Town play in attacking Voided as scum.

Furthermore Post 1050 makes my eyes bleed. You’ve concocted a scenario where 6 people all get abilities the same Night. The chances of that happening are slim. Your plan basically assures that scum knows who to kill to prevent important roles like Cop and Vig from ever appearing …

How does it "not reflect reality"?

Are you asking me this with a straight face?

--

[Voidedmafia]

No. We are going to give you a scenario.

1. MagnaofIllusion gets COP
3. AurorusVox gets CPR Doc
4. IceGuy gets HID
5. Lady Lambdadelta *** gets PGO
7. PeregrineV (replaced 2minds1soul *** Day 2) gets VIG
8. Robocopter87 * get WHM

If this were to happen, and everyone saw it, what will town be able to do with this information "going into night"? And how will town have "wasted a good combination"?

If Magna is scum, his ability is wasted as scum doesn't need COP. His ability is overall irrelevant to the scenario.
If AVox is scum, CPR Doc can potentially kill a town (Unless said town is targeted by luck). By knowing of the potential of this, town can either A.) Invest in a VIG to try and "save" that person via CPR's effect (though that does lead into my "wasted tiles" point as they could just shoot someone else entirely and waste the shot if they hit town), or B.) invest in RB to directly block AVox from using it.
If IceGuy is scum there's not really much anyone can do besdies RBing him. Besides, scum using this would in effect almost have to give a true answer (I suppose they could hide behind a partner, but I think the "Hide behind scum=dead" part still applies).
If LLD is scum then I don't think town can really do anything.
If you get VIG then town can invest in an RB to block you or DC or WHM (or CPR if they feel risky) to prevent the death of the person you may target.
If Robo is scum then he's an idiot for taking WHM.

In essence, if town knows the potential words that can be made and are reasonably sure they'll be used in the night, then they can use their own to stop the ability in question. However, it is also possible for scum to be aware of this, and intentionally not cash in that night so that town may waste a protection they didn't need to use (unless the scum NK the target)

You did ask.

EBWOP: That being said, I'm interested in collecting the "D". Anyone object?

Twice.

Also: Last call for the "D" tile on the board! I wish to collect in one of my next couple of posts.

...And?

If you are town, then you wouldn't be preventing town from having that power, now would you? So why would that be a concern?

See above.

You need a D. MoI needs a D.
Who should have the D?

If he is effectively one letter away from making a good role and can convey such, he should.

Otherwise, I would say deference would go to the one who asked.

This is a mindset that makes you scummy. If you are town and wanted to DOC or HID, you would grab it. Instead, you were worried that you might be called on it, since your porbably scum.
Part of the scum "play it safe" mentality.

Confirmation bias.
Also, see above.

Town players know that no one is more town than themselves. You seem to know that others are "more town" than you, so you wanted to avoid stepping on people toes.

[/quote]
Lol.

I wasn't claiming what my letters are, I was claiming which letters I'd like to take.

716 sure sounds like you were letter-claiming.

P-EDIT: Pere, I don't understand what the hell you're replying to.

[IceGuy]

716 sure sounds like you were letter-claiming.

Only if taken out of context.

[AurorusVox]

@MoI, nothing.

However, I think scum are just allowing this little fiasco to go on for ever. If one of you were scum, I expect of you would have been lynched by now.

[PeregrineV]

@Peregrine – What was the point of posting the sample Scum PM in Post 1046?

Peregrine wrote:
So, because of a single exception, I should totally discard the whole theory? Throw the baby out with the bathwater?

I didn't say it was scum-only, I said it added to the factors for which I find Voided scummy.

Curious why you think Voided is so town that you are leaping to his defense with faulty logic.


No, the faulty logic lies with you. You’ve cherry-picked two examples of scum doing something (ironically in games where you say you as Town did the exact same thing) and are extrapolating that it is more likely to come from scum.

You are basically arguing against your own Town play in attacking Voided as scum.

Yes. As town, I put it out there for town, assuming that scum is doing at least the same and has the same information.
As scum, l let town figure it out for themselves, and save all the mechanics/record keeping for my scum team.

As pointed out by games I mentioned and the night 1 kill target, this is generally in opposition to site meta.

And it's not the sole reason I find Voided to be scum. It's one of many.

Furthermore Post 1050 makes my eyes bleed. You’ve concocted a scenario where 6 people all get abilities the same Night. The chances of that happening are slim. Your plan basically assures that scum knows who to kill to prevent important roles like Cop and Vig from ever appearing …

Sigh. Does no one understand the word hypothetical?

What was the purpose of the scenario I posted?

[PeregrineV]

No. We are going to give you a scenario.

1. MagnaofIllusion gets COP
3. AurorusVox gets CPR Doc
4. IceGuy gets HID
5. Lady Lambdadelta *** gets PGO
7. PeregrineV (replaced 2minds1soul *** Day 2) gets VIG
8. Robocopter87 * get WHM

If this were to happen, and everyone saw it, what will town be able to do with this information "going into night"? And how will town have "wasted a good combination"?

If Magna is scum, his ability is wasted as scum doesn't need COP. His ability is overall irrelevant to the scenario.
If AVox is scum, CPR Doc can potentially kill a town (Unless said town is targeted by luck). By knowing of the potential of this, town can either A.) Invest in a VIG to try and "save" that person via CPR's effect (though that does lead into my "wasted tiles" point as they could just shoot someone else entirely and waste the shot if they hit town), or B.) invest in RB to directly block AVox from using it.
If IceGuy is scum there's not really much anyone can do besdies RBing him. Besides, scum using this would in effect almost have to give a true answer (I suppose they could hide behind a partner, but I think the "Hide behind scum=dead" part still applies).
If LLD is scum then I don't think town can really do anything.
If you get VIG then town can invest in an RB to block you or DC or WHM (or CPR if they feel risky) to prevent the death of the person you may target.
If Robo is scum then he's an idiot for taking WHM.

In essence, if town knows the potential words that can be made and are reasonably sure they'll be used in the night, then they can use their own to stop the ability in question. However, it is also possible for scum to be aware of this, and intentionally not cash in that night so that town may waste a protection they didn't need to use (unless the scum NK the target)

What will town be able to do with this information "going into night"?

Town can really do nothing at night except use their abilities. During the day, they can try to coordinate so that MoI gets a result and the other abilities are maximized, but given the scenario, town can dictate how they think abilities can be used, but they really can't do anything but use those abilities.
You're speaking like a scumgroup that has to minimize the damage of players having power roles.

how will town have "wasted a good combination"?

Considering again that town-Voided doesn't know who is scum and who is town, how will town "have wasted a good combination"?

[PeregrineV]

If he is effectively one letter away from making a good role and can convey such, he should.

Otherwise, I would say deference would go to the one who asked.

So he should claim his role and other letters? If he is town, why would he do this and make himself a target?

And if you know you are town for sure, but can only guess at his alignment, why would you think he should get it if you can use it?

Laugh all you want. I think I'm right, and you haven't done anything to change my mind.

[MagnaofIllusion]

However, I think scum are just allowing this little fiasco to go on for ever. If one of you were scum, I expect of you would have been lynched by now.

Meh. If we were both Town I’d expect scum to take opposing sides and let one of us get mislynched and then go right after the other the next day.

Instead Iceguy keeps having counter-wagons spring up to attempt to save his ass.

--

As pointed out by games I mentioned and the night 1 kill target, this is generally in opposition to site meta.

I think you are greatly over-stating how strong this is part of ‘site meta’.

Sigh. Does no one understand the word hypothetical?

What was the purpose of the scenario I posted?

Oh I understand what the word hypothetical means. Do you understand that specifically crafting a scenario to support your stance isn’t a valid method by which to prove a point.