Open 426: *Unspecified, as of yet* -GAME STARTED DAWGS

[Greywing]

Hey Greywing.

What's up with voting for everyone you think is scummily associated with Chrimi except for Chrimi himself?

1. Gunny was for reaction.
2. Both Uber and Chrimi are leaning scum. I picked one.

Greywing, what exactly is your stance on blastoide?

As I've already stated, leaning Town.

I didn't realize he was at L-1 in the first place. And stop lining up lynches.

I think Greywing will flip scum too

, but that shouldn't make me scum when I unvoted him to pursue someone scummier.

Although I agree with where your vote is, your logic here is baffling. Basically, you decided to unvote a scum-read in order to vote another scum-read. How does that make any sense?

[Arugula]

I am more confident in Chrimi scum due to how fast your wagon has built up. I would rather a Chrimi lynch, but still settle for your lynch.

[Loranthaceae]

arugula: your words and actions do not jive with one another. "i'm fine with greywing lynch" *unvotes from l-1 to start a new counterwagon*

everyone else: when grey flips scum, arugula goes next. easy peesy lemon squeazy

I still find it unlikely for both Greywing and Arugula to be scum. Arugula has a point about the velocity of the bandwagon build-up on Greywing, which is why I'd choose him if it was between the two of them. Also, who among you sees Greywing as their primary suspect? It feels like for some he's just a convenient alternative.

So in this order I'd like Mala - Arugula - Chrimi - (Uber - shotgun because we had some quality discussion going on from the start of the game, If I was scum I would have been weary about the prospect of getting owned too and would've preferred to be replaced) to bite the dust.

[Arugula]

You still haven't adequately explained why I am scum. And now Greywing isn't even on your suspect list?

My order is Chrimi - Greywing - Lora

[Loranthaceae]

You still haven't adequately explained why I am scum. And now Greywing isn't even on your suspect list?

My order is Chrimi - Greywing - Lora

I have, actually. I told you that you are trying to make me look worse, and here you do it again: What do you mean "And now"? Greywing was never on my suspect list, why make it look like I switched stance on him. Is this something you do unconsciously?

[Arugula]

arugula: your words and actions do not jive with one another. "i'm fine with greywing lynch" *unvotes from l-1 to start a new counterwagon*

everyone else: when grey flips scum, arugula goes next. easy peesy lemon squeazy

I still find it unlikely for both Greywing and Arugula to be scum. Arugula has a point about the velocity of the bandwagon build-up on Greywing, which is why I'd choose him if it was between the two of them.

This implies a scumread on Greywing. If you thought he was town, you wouldn't group us together and pick one as scum.

And how is pointing out flaws in your posts (or making you look bad as you call it) scummy? I think you are scum, so am I supposed to make you appear town?

[Loranthaceae]

arugula: your words and actions do not jive with one another. "i'm fine with greywing lynch" *unvotes from l-1 to start a new counterwagon*

everyone else: when grey flips scum, arugula goes next. easy peesy lemon squeazy

I still find it unlikely for both Greywing and Arugula to be scum. Arugula has a point about the velocity of the bandwagon build-up on Greywing, which is why I'd choose him if it was between the two of them.

This implies a scumread on Greywing. If you thought he was town, you wouldn't group us together and pick one as scum.

And how is pointing out flaws in your posts (or making you look bad as you call it) scummy? I think you are scum, so am I supposed to make you appear town?

No it does not imply a scumread on Greywing. Yes I am grouping you together to show that you can't both be scum because you were tunneling me identically (something that Chrimi picked up very quickly.. I've read somewhere that scum tend to pick up on tells more quickly, anyway). If anything I am defending Greywing because I want you lynched instead. Because you make me look worse, not bad .. again your attention to semantics is ludicrously sloppy. You twist and turn everything out of context and that is not necessary for a townie, you could just enumerate facts. Fact is, grouping you two together in no way am I indicating that Greywing is scummy.. I'm saying you can't or rather it's not likely for both of you to be scum end of story. I said it's strange that he moved off of me when there was a real chance of lynching me, the guy he's been on the whole game long, but I can imagine him growing some insight and realizing he needs to get off me because I'm town.

[Shiidaji]

Yes I know wagon speculation without flips isn't as strong but I don't care.

Spoiler:

Lora Wagon at peak:
Loranthaceae (4): Greywing, Jal, Arugula, Chrimi
- Considering Lora is town, which I'm willing to believe, there'd probably be at least one scum on this wagon, it grew pretty fast when there were alternatives present. Gwing rode the vote for a bit while attacking others, which is something I dislike. Jal seems like he legitimately reads Lora as scum with his questioning of Lora and his defenders. Arugula and Chrimi each had rather crappy reasoning for jumping on (Omgus? Really.), but I don't feel like pursuing that now, especially since Chrimi's style of abrasive play always gives me town vibes (Read: kuribo in basically any game he plays). Moreover Chrimi unvoted soon thereafter. I doubt scum on town would behave in this way, they'd ride it out a bit to see if any others were interested in hopping on after them. Greywing and Aru look bad from this point of view.

Blastoide wagon gaining traction, this is shortly before the Lora wagon falls apart due to Chrimi and Gunny voting elsewhere:
Loranthaceae (5): Greywing, Jal, Arugula, Gunny, Chrimi
Blastoide (4): BK201, Shiidaji, roflcopter, Scigatt
Roflcopter (2): Blastoide, Malakittens
- Blast wagon growing, sudden roflcopter counterwagon proposed. The fact that it didn't gain traction beyond two votes further makes me like BlastScum even more in hindsight, considering there were barely any jumps on it. Gunny and Chrimi jumps aren't very readable. Blast comments on the Lora wagon after a while saying that she's probably town but doesn't really do anything about it.

Roflcopter wagon stays at the same level.
Loranthaceae (2): Jal, drmyshotgun
Blastoide (3): BK201, roflcopter, UberNinja
Roflcopter (2): Blastoide, Malakittens
Greywing (3): Chrimi, Shiidaji, Arugula
- Rofl wagon grows stale. Migration from both the Lora wagon and Blast wagon to the Greywing wagon starts.

Greywing at peak:
Greywing (6): Shiidaji, Arugula, BK201, drmyshotgun, roflcopter, Chrimi (Chrimi just jumped off but whatever)
- Chrimi repeatedly jumping on and off Greywing reads badly in turn. I don't have very many qualms with this wagon aside from Aru after the Chrimi jump off though, and even then the Arugula vote doesn't read like a bus.

I'm wavering on wether or not this is telling of scum redirecting themselves off Blastoide and onto Greywing, considering that there were a few similar jumps from both the Lora wagon and the Blast wagon to the Greywing wagon, Chrimi's wagon jumps are leaving me baffled but I don't want to pursue him today as he feels like more of a distraction than an opportunist. At the very most we could have a busser on Greywing, which would probably be Chrimi/Rofl/BK. It'd be awesome if this was an alltown wagon though, it'd point to a very defensive scumteam.

Blast-Mala scumteam is something I'm equally wavering on considering I have my reservations on wether or not Malascum would vote with Blastscum. But as Mala pointed out, she wasn't aware of Blast's vote when she voted! Now I don't know if that's a distancing excuse or not, but I would be interested in pursuing it should we get a Blast scumflip.

I'd be more content with a Blastoide wagon at this point, considering how it was defused, but I'm guessing that I won't be able to get that considering how the town is split on their reads on him, so I'm content with the Greywing wagon as his behavior since the pressure was amped up hasn't reassured me.

[Shiidaji]

arugula: your words and actions do not jive with one another. "i'm fine with greywing lynch" *unvotes from l-1 to start a new counterwagon*

everyone else: when grey flips scum, arugula goes next. easy peesy lemon squeazy

Does Post 257 read like a bus to you though?

[Jal]

He hasn't done anything to make me believe he's scum, so for the time being I believe he's town. After all, it's much more likely given the town to scum ratio.

Oh times have certainly changed, haven't they? But then Uber replaces in and you're all over trying to suck up to him. Makes the mind wonder.

And it's a lot more believable if I switch my vote to someone else, is it not?

To make what more believable, exactly?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Chrimi

[Jal]

Why is Loran, BK, and Shii town?

i already gave as much of an explanation as i care to give.

for anyone who thinks there's some threshold for how many or few posts are needed before one can actually arrive at a town or scum read, that is entirely fallacious.

Why is Loran, BK, and Shii town?

i also already explained this. reading is tech. are you just asking stupid questions to waste my time?

It looks like we have ourselves a badass in this thread. Keep up with the attitude and I see you going up to the high places in no time.

[Greywing]

VOTE: Chrimi

I support this wagon 100%.

[drmyshotgun]

VOTE: Chrimi

I support this wagon 100%.

Oh lol.

[Chrimi]

I clicked the link, Jal. Once again, Every game that I'VE been with him in he's very good. Roflcopter being a little butthurt against one loss isn't helping, either. And I'm not going to go read a whole game over this.

He hasn't done anything to make me believe he's scum, so for the time being I believe he's town. After all, it's much more likely given the town to scum ratio.

Really? He's done nothing to make you believe he is scum? Did you forget about this?:

Mod: Can we get a votecount up?

Just kidding, of course.

VOTE: Lora
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS:
Oh, I'm vanilla town. Everybody says that where I come from, so I could be lying.

You know what? I don't give a fuck where you're from, here we lynch ALL liars. And I hate it when people early claim VT even if they're a PR. Pisses me off.

I don't like this vote. The reasoning is bull, and you seem to ignore all the reasoning on it that came beforehand, and that rage seems over the top.

Vote:Chrimi

I also don't get the hate against Blastoide. The non-game interaction with Chrimi is of course a null tell, and his behaviour on the Loranthaceae case doesn't seem odd, considering how early it is in the game.

The fuck.

How is my reasoning bull? You wanna fucking dance?

I can rage all I want. Also, I didn't ignore any reasoning beforehand. The excuse he gave was that where he came from they do shit differently, and I told him that I don't give a fuck because we're not where he's from, we're in a place that fucking lynches all liars.

Another note, if you're going to call my reasoning bull, at least fucking say WHY.

Also, you vote me for making that case, then say the case isn't odd? And I was raging at blastoide for spelling my name wrong, if you didn't see the "Kidding, of course" part.

And for that,

FOS bad scum trying to make a case on me AKA Scigatt

And then you say, he's more likely town because of the town/scum ratio. No shit. If we go by that logic, no one will be lynched.
The Greywing wagon seemed like a counter to the Lora wagon, though it went up way too fast.
UNVOTE: Greywing
VOTE: Chrimi

Erm, scigatt and Uber are two different people. I really don't give a flying fuck that they're the same role, there is one thing you can't defend in this game, and that's the person you replaced. I'm not going to be a jackass and judge him based on his predecessor, because I hate it when people do that to me.

[Arugula]

...I really don't know what to say to that. You can't ignore what slmeone's predecessor has done.

[Chrimi]

He hasn't done anything to make me believe he's scum, so for the time being I believe he's town. After all, it's much more likely given the town to scum ratio.

Oh times have certainly changed, haven't they? But then Uber replaces in and you're all over trying to suck up to him. Makes the mind wonder.

And it's a lot more believable if I switch my vote to someone else, is it not?

To make what more believable, exactly?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Chrimi

Read my last post, please.

Also, what do you think more believable? You think I'm going to believe you're that stupid?

More believable- the thing we were DISCUSSING-

I moved my vote to BK because if I just unvoted, it wouldn't have been as believable. The fact that you take that as scummy is just sad, Jal. I moved my vote because I wanted to see what Greywing would do when I moved it, the fact that you took that as scummy is one of either two things.

1. You're scum trying to pin stuff on the newest wagon to get a mislynch.
2. You're scum trying to pin stuff on the newest wagon to get people off of the old wagon.
3. You're fucking stupid.

:IGMEOU: Keeping my vote on Greywing, for now.

[BK201]

Judging based on the previous owner of the spot is important in determining that slot's alignment...

[Chrimi]

...I really don't know what to say to that. You can't ignore what slmeone's predecessor has done.

I know you can't ignore it, but I at least give people the chance to redeem themselves. He hasn't done anything that looks scummy yet so I'm taking him as town. Of course, if he does something about a 3/10 scum rating, then I'm going to take it as like a 6/10 scum tell, because of his predecessor.

[Chrimi]

Judging based on the previous owner of the spot is important in determining that slot's alignment...

Noted, but as I said, I hate it when I replace into the scummiest spot in the game and there's nothing I can do about it, so I tend to let replacements get a little slack.

[drmyshotgun]

When Chrimi starts calling others "fucking stupid" in reaction to votes on himself, he's Town. Fact.

[Arugula]

If he hasn't done anything scummy yet, wouldn't that make him null rather town? And since his predecessor was scummy, that would put him at null-scum, based on what you've said.

@drmy
He said he's changing up his playstyle. What you say about his meta has no relevance. Fact.

[BK201]

Here's an example as to why you should always judge a replacement based on their predecessor. (I don't mean entirely, but it is important...)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4116939

OmoftheNom replaced into a scum slot and holy crap we went back and forth for pages saying he is scum for his predecessors (had two) and him saying he shouldn't be judged for their play.

[Chrimi]

He hasn't done anything to make me believe he's scum, so for the time being I believe he's town. After all, it's much more likely given the town to scum ratio.

Oh times have certainly changed, haven't they? But then Uber replaces in and you're all over trying to suck up to him. Makes the mind wonder.

And it's a lot more believable if I switch my vote to someone else, is it not?

To make what more believable, exactly?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Chrimi

Could you please just say "That's not what you said here(link) And now uber is joining and you're sucking up to him because he's such a good town player, I think it's scum trying to get on the good side of a good town player"

The way you said it was just annoying and kind of gave me the shivers.

@Arugula
Doesn't mean I won't do most of what I used to, just in a different way. Fact.

@BK201
I see what you mean, but I just really hate doing it. I want to give UberNinja some time to start posting before I start basing my reads on him off of

anything

.

[drmyshotgun]

He may claim that he's changing them, but under pressure and anger etc you naturally go back to yourself.
Plus, I don't see anything different from Chrimi.

[Chrimi]

Although, on that note... UberNinja should really start posting content soon, as town he usually starts scumhunting by now :/

@gunny: You don't notice how I'm a bit more aggressive than usual? I feel like I'm usually too laid back and don't do a bit of scumhunting, and I've tried to do more in this game but it looks like it's not helping ._.