History Mafia Mini Theme - 1358 Game Over!

[Bitmap]

Town. Confidant and concise, tone is genuine.

I still don't feel the Vash scum bandwagon yet.

You can say the joking isn't a good enough reason but he has never joked in a game before. Maybe he's just nervous around a new crowd of people but I doubt it.

I still think Amrun is scummier.

[MattP]

That's cuz you suck at mafia

[Bitmap]

That's cuz you suck at mafia

No, I'm amazing.

[Quilford]

Amrun was the only one out of the active players who I was getting a scumread on, so I can support a lynch on her.

But I want to catch up first/

[Quilford]

Also this post is just really, really bad:

Why? What's so bad about it :/

Because all you do is describe Bitmap's actions around the assumption he's scum. (Scumhunting townies would use Bitmap's actions to

draw the conclusion

he's scum.) I think what you did is a common way for scum to fake scumhunting.

scooby's meh. My gut feeling is that he's just lagging town who'll probably have to replace out at some point. :/

What makes him lagging town and I'm not?

Because of your posts? They're scummy and his aren't.

--

The first three of his posts are stirring up shit about nameclaiming and setup spec

Well you made that sound inflammatory for seemingly no reason. I was questioning Staeg because I didn't like his assertion that role name and power are unrelated. My first thought when reading it was

him setting up justification for a fake claim and a PR that don't mesh flavor-wise

. And "stirring up shit about nameclaiming" is blatantly false, since I didn't mention nameclaiming at all.

Bahahahaha. You thought Staeg was setting up justification for a bad fakeclaim? Considering scum are usually given fakeclaims from the moderator, who knows every single other role in the game, any fakeclaim Staeg would give should he be scum would be indistinguishable from a townie's Role PM (insofar as the name and role, anyway). Let me ask you: if you thought something as specific as 'Staeg is setting up justification for a bad fake claim', why didn't you vote him? Or point it out?

I accept that you didn't mention nameclaiming. I misread.

then he chucks in some unexplained reads - scroll down - (which I admit I do too, but these ones are bad

because if he was

actually

engaged in his set-up discussion, you'd think he'd have some pretty strong reads on the other people doing it too. He doesn't.

You're saying I should have "pretty strong reads" on players from discussion within the first 5 pages? That's bullshit. I have gut feelings and inclinations, but nothing really solid. That's why I voted for Bitmap instead. I hate when players relish in the fact that they're not very good and other players give them quarter because of it, it's a slippery slope that allows a player to have a better chance of getting away with scummy behavior.

Haha wait, you voted Bitmap because you personally dislike people who point out that they're bad? So your first three posts were almost entirely about the fallout of IceGuy's nameclaim proposal, but in the end you draw no conclusions about it and instead vote Bitmap because he was being self deprecating? And you don't even mention this is why you voted Bitmap? Doesn't sound very townie to me. Sounds like scum who's moving from one controversy to the next.

I'm also pretty sure that players who partook in the nameclaim shenanigans DID have some pretty strong reads within the first 5 pages, or at least didn't have no reads as a result of the whole thing. Unlike you.

And then his latest post is a prod-dodge.

This implies that you find prod dodges to be scummy. I disagree, but I see the logic behind it. However, when you yourself make a prod dodge post and then try to push this as support for your case, it makes you look pretty silly.

Your prod-dodge was scummy because you posted prod-dodge and then didn't follow it up with any content. My prod-dodge means a sum total of nothing because I said in it "more meaningful stuff coming really soon, i'm just going through my games atm in fact!" and then posted within an hour.

--

Vash's Post by Post Analysis is shit. I know most of you probably just really briefly skimmed it, but it's just a summary of each post and then, most commonly, a one word read of that post. And they're all completely predictable. He's just scum having to avoid writing out a summary of each player, which is harder to fake and can be more easily attacked. His justification for MattP being town is really, really bad (off-site scum meta, of all things), and if he were a townie then there would be more obvious behaviour for him to use to support his read. Yeah no.

--

lol at Amrun's #207

--

ChaosOmega predictably shows up and asks to lynch Bitmap because he's making useless posts that are just noise. Sum total of zero townie motivation here, guys.

--

scooby's #224 is good because he explores a new target unprovoked. iDanyboy's response in #231 is super bad, as scooby points out in the next post.

--

@Mod: can we have a votecount please?

I'll reassess my vote then.

[Shamrock]

Was originally on board for Bitmap bandwagon but as he continues to post more I am beginning to think you guys are likely right about his town signals. I am still mildly suspicious but now mostly think I may have just misread his style.

Sort of piggybacking off some of Quilford's points above...

Bitmap, what did you hope to achieve with that question to MattP?

Scooby has already (correctly) jumped on this post, but why would you even ask a question like this? The intent of Bitmap's question is so obviously transparent (in keeping with the "noobtown" thing) that you'd have to be an idiot not to realize it, so presumably you do realize it, which means you're doing literally the exact same thing that your question is implicitly criticizing Bitmap for doing (i.e. fishing for a suspicious reaction). Except what you've done is like 20x as scummy as what Bitmap did: Bitmap was at least fishing on someone he was trying to get a read on, whereas you are fishing on someone you've clearly made up your mind about already (8 of your 10 posts past the RVS/massclaim discussion have been attacking Bitmap) presumably to gather more evidence for a lynch.

I've never played with you when you were scum, but this post is not your town play, you never joke around as town.'

That's not a good enough reson to warrant a vote I want to see more to before I think his scummy.

Having a scumread based on playstyle isn't enough to warrant a vote? What? I can't decide if this assertion is scummy or just dumb.

I also agree that Vash's "analysis" is pretty worthless. I mean, hell, I might not be contributing all that much but at least I'm not writing pages full of nothing in order to make it look like I am.

Switching vote to Amrun, for the moment at least.
UNVOTE: Bitmap
VOTE: Amrun

[MattP]

To be fair vash usually calls my alignment early on the same way he did this time

[Shamrock]

that's not why it's useless though, it's useless because he gives no reasons for most of his reads - in some cases the reason is self-evident but in other parts he gives things like:

DCL-
Pot 51, asks quil to explain why he said DCL is bad, Null
Post 53, Asks for more explaination, Null
Post 55, Blows up, Null/scum
Posts 60 & 61, Defends Iceguy, Calls out staeg, Null/Scum
Post 63, Says Ice guy sounds like he's lying, null

which is pretty useless without explaining why these things seem like scum tells. Also most of his descriptions are fluff.

[DCLXVI]

You forget the part about them being completely inaccurate. I've never defended ICEguy this game.

[Shamrock]

Oh but as long as we're on the subject of Vash:

His justification for MattP being town is really, really bad (off-site scum meta, of all things)

how is this worse than assuming Bitmap is town based on behavior in previous games?

[Amrun]

What kind of reactions did you hope to get?

What is your interpretation of the reactions you got?

Bitmap, please answer this question.

That was kind of dumb because that pretty much confirmed Bitmap as town

Can we go over what happened here?

Unvote

in wait for this.

I missed it and I feel like it was important. I also don't think MattP would say this without reason.

Town. Confidant and concise, tone is genuine.

I still don't feel the Vash scum bandwagon yet.

What does this mean? I'm having trouble parsing it. Are you saying you think Vash is town, or scum?

Bitmap, what did you hope to achieve with that question to MattP?

Scooby has already (correctly) jumped on this post, but why would you even ask a question like this? The intent of Bitmap's question is so obviously transparent (in keeping with the "noobtown" thing) that you'd have to be an idiot not to realize it, so presumably you do realize it, which means you're doing literally the exact same thing that your question is implicitly criticizing Bitmap for doing (i.e. fishing for a suspicious reaction). Except what you've done is like 20x as scummy as what Bitmap did: Bitmap was at least fishing on someone he was trying to get a read on, whereas you are fishing on someone you've clearly made up your mind about already (8 of your 10 posts past the RVS/massclaim discussion have been attacking Bitmap) presumably to gather more evidence for a lynch.

Let's review this ONE MORE TIME for people who either do not know how to or refuse to look beyond the surface.

I asked the question in order to evaluate Bitmap, because - shocker! - I have NOT decided about his alignment. He is continually doing scummy shit, but he is apparently known for doing scummy shit, so it's hard to evaluate. I'm not into giving out VI-cards. VI/noobs can be scum too.

The point of the question was not to get at Bitmap's "intent," because it WAS an obviously clumsy reaction fish. The point of the question was to see if it was an attempt at looking town or whether it was an attempt to scumhunt. I planned to follow up on his answers - but IceGuy has done that for me. Bitmap dodged the actually important question, showing he had no idea what he was looking for in that reaction fish. That is really scummy, but again, I'm stuck wondering whether he would actually be that scummy as town.

More to the point, why is IceGuy not scummy for repeating and adding to my question? That goes to scooby, too. I mean, neither of us are actually scummy for this thing (or at all), but let's go with it for now.


Post 255 is the biggest trash post of the whole game. It manages to: fencesit on Bitmap and regurgitate three - THREE - separate suspicions that make no sense with each other and are entirely unoriginal, which is just about on par for every single other one of Shamrock's posts and exclusively addresses the day's 4 biggest suspects and leaves room to vote any one of them.

Vote: Shamrock

This feels so right.

IceGuy, Quilford, and scooby are probably town.

[Shamrock]

I asked the question in order to evaluate Bitmap, because - shocker! - I have NOT decided about his alignment.

Sure could have fooled me, given the heavyhandedness with which you've been pushing his lynch.

More to the point, why is IceGuy not scummy for repeating and adding to my question? That goes to scooby, too.

IceGuy is uncertain about his read on Bitmap. You, on the other hand, are fishing when you've already made up your mind.

I know the sentence where I explain this is a little convoluted, but you could at least try reading it. I'm also not sure how Scooby is relevant at all here; he seems to be making a similar argument to mine.

[Bitmap]

What kind of reactions did you hope to get?

What is your interpretation of the reactions you got?

Bitmap, please answer this question.

1) A troll answer
2)

Troll answer = Town
Serious answer = Scum

[Amrun]

I asked the question in order to evaluate Bitmap, because - shocker! - I have NOT decided about his alignment.

Sure could have fooled me, given the heavyhandedness with which you've been pushing his lynch.

More to the point, why is IceGuy not scummy for repeating and adding to my question? That goes to scooby, too.

IceGuy is uncertain about his read on Bitmap. You, on the other hand, are fishing when you've already made up your mind.

I know the sentence where I explain this is a little convoluted, but you could at least try reading it. I'm also not sure how Scooby is relevant at all here; he seems to be making a similar argument to mine.

I voted on like page 2 or something when I first read the game, and have kept pursuing in an effort to further my read for a relatively short amount of time, most of which I have been v/la over as I am v/la every weekend. How do you think the game of mafia works? I am pretty sure you can't possibly believe the bullshit you just said.

Actually, IceGuy had said NOTHING about Bitmap's alignment until his most recent post, which happened after the exchange we are discussing. How do you know he is uncertain about his read? I'm pretty sure you just made that up to cover your tracks.

What are you talking about "you could at least try to read it?" You didn't mention IceGuy at ALL. And you just explained why scooby is relevant; he made the argument you're making BEFORE YOU MADE IT, and he did it better.

What kind of reactions did you hope to get?

What is your interpretation of the reactions you got?

Bitmap, please answer this question.

1) A troll answer
2)

Troll answer = Town
Serious answer = Scum

Why?

[Bitmap]

Because scum would take that question seriously in order to look like town.

[Amrun]

Okay, I see where you're going with that.

[Bitmap]

Okay, I see where you're going with that.

Ugh, MattP was right. You seem really null after reading what you just said.

UNVOTE:

[Nexus]

'[History is] the most difficult of all the sciences.' - Fustel de Coulanges

Votecount 1.5:

ChaosOmega (2): MichelSableheart, Quilford,
Amrun (2): scooby, Shamrock
Vash (2): MattP, Staeg
Bitmap (1): ChaosOmega
Staeg (1): DCLXVI
DCLXVI (1): IceGuy
Shamrock (1): Amrun
scooby (1): iDanyboy

Not voting (2): Bitmap, Vash

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is 8am (BST) on the 30th July

MichelSableheart is v/la.

[MattP]

In post 244, MattP wrote:
That was kind of dumb because that pretty much confirmed Bitmap as town


Can we go over what happened here?

Unvote in wait for this.

I missed it and I feel like it was important. I also don't think MattP would say this without reason.

I can go into why only town would put that quote in their sig in the middle of a game, but look at it yourself:

"really, really, really want to lynch Bitmap.

Unfortunately, he's probably town."

It's too annoying to explain, and I don't want to game-break with something that should have never happened.

[scooby]

I asked the question in order to evaluate Bitmap, because - shocker! - I have NOT decided about his alignment. He is continually doing scummy shit, but he is apparently known for doing scummy shit, so it's hard to evaluate.

Bullshit. Why are you voting for him then? Why more than half of your posts are weak attacks against him?

You are NOT trying to deiced his alignment. You ARE trying to make him look as SCUM.

The point of the question was not to get at Bitmap's "intent," because it WAS an obviously clumsy reaction fish. The point of the question was to see if it was an attempt at looking town or whether it was an attempt to scumhunt. That is really scummy, but again,

I'm stuck wondering whether he would actually be that scummy as town.

This is exactly why you are scum, Amrun.

You fucking knew this question would not do anything. There was not a valid response. Anything Bitmap answered woiuld not be enough to get his intent. You just made that question because you ARE trying to make him look as SCUM.

[scooby]

I also agree with bitmap being confirmed town now, which means Amrun is even more likely scum.

Confirm Vote: Amrun

[Staeg]

Scooby, you're moving into confirmation bias territory. Your 269 is terrible logic.

[scooby]

Stop using rehtoric stuff and theory of things you have no idea of.

If Amrun has NOT decided in bitmap's alignment then why the fuck is she is voting him.

Even worse, if you ISO her, then you can find gems like this:

You have no idea what your read on IceGuy is - it has fluctuated between scum, null, and town to fit whatever is convenient to you at the time. This is not an evolution of a read over time

This is not someone trying to understand bitmap motivation. This is someone that already thinks bitmap is scum.

God, SHE IS EVEN VOTING HIM.

[MattP]

Vash, you still have no scumreads, catch up please

[Staeg]

Stop using rehtoric stuff and theory of things you have no idea of.

If Amrun has NOT decided in bitmap's alignment then why the fuck is she is voting him.

Even worse, if you ISO her, then you can find gems like this:

You have no idea what your read on IceGuy is - it has fluctuated between scum, null, and town to fit whatever is convenient to you at the time. This is not an evolution of a read over time

This is not someone trying to understand bitmap motivation. This is someone that already thinks bitmap is scum.

God, SHE IS EVEN VOTING HIM.

That wasn't even rhetoric, for one. For two, since when can you only vote someone if you're 110% sure that they're scum? Like, seriously, what the fuck?