Judge, Jury, and Executioner - Over

[Axelrod]

Right now I'm wondering if it isn't always going to be the proper move to insist that Judge, Jury, and Executioner always execute the people they have in front of them. This is almost like giving the Town 3 lynches a day, and it would seem to limit the scum abilitiy to manipulate the results. It's bad if we have nominated 3 townies, but that was pretty much always going to be the case. In the case where we have nominated 1 scum, but also 2 Townies, it seems the Mafia can always arrange it to leave the scum alive (make the Executioner a Mafia and put the Mafia in front of him). If we manage to nominate 2 or 3 scum, we would be gold.

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

DCLXVI (7): WrathChild, WrathChild, Ser Panda, Ser Panda, StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug, TheShadow

TheShadow (6): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia, DCLXVI, Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner
Sir Bastion (6): Thor665, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, Nocmen, TheShadow
vijay2vasandani (6): Nero Cain, guille2015, Nocmen, Arugula, Arugula, TheShadow
Arugula (4): Quilford, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani, Thor665
Ser Panda (3): DCLXVI, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Axelrod
Teleporting Speed Hippos (2): Nero Cain, Axelrod
Axelrod (2): Quilford, Quilford
Nocmen (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
Scott Brosius (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
WrathChild (2): Teleporting Speed Hippos, Nero Cain
Thor665 (1): DCLXVI
Knight of Cydonia (1): guille2015
DoomYoshi (1): guille2015
Nero Cain (1): Nocmen
StrangerCoug (1): Ser Panda

16

votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

0

of which are frozen, leaving

63

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Unvote: Ser Panda
Unvote: WrathChild

Vote: Arugula
Vote: Arugula

Bad reaction to v2v is bad.

I also agree with Pere on judge no claim.
At first I was all like FUCK YEAH CLEARED TOWN JUDGE CLAIM, but then actually it means Judge's decision on who is sent to him is too wine soaked. Axelrod's post sums it up nicely - yes, we have clear town, but that doesn't change the fact that Judge will in all likelihood be just another schmuck with reads.

@Axelrod, interesting proposition. Question is though, do we know who the Executioner is each night? My fear would be the situation you described (scum put scum in front of scum) and just don't Execute. We can't force that person to claim (although we COULD narrow it down, which might be worthwhile in and of itself). ALSO, if the Judge is guaranteed to Execute, he can claim without fears of WIFOM affecting his decision. So I'm leaning towards a tentative yes.

This all depends though on how well we do from the start, though. If we always Execute without deviation for the rest of the game, our wagons have to be pretty spot on in early game (no "meh" 2nd or 3rd places) or else we run the risk of shredding through town too quickly, and being too scared to continue with the play later on.

[Arugula]

How was it a bad reaction? He lied and I voted him for it.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Because he obviously doesn't have it mod-confirmed that you are scum.
The fact that you think he's being serious tells me that you really ARE scum.

[DoomYoshi]

vote DCL

For the reasoning on TSH. If your argument is correct, it is possible that you are scum for realizing the correct scum mechanic. I am not sure if it is the correct scum mechanic yet though, as I don't think you are right in your interpretation of the rules. So TSH is not cleared IMO.

vote Arugula

For somehow being MCS.

vote guille

To prove that I do have a vote, I just hadn't used it yet.

Right now I'm wondering if it isn't always going to be the proper move to insist that Judge, Jury, and Executioner always execute the people they have in front of them. This is almost like giving the Town 3 lynches a day, and it would seem to limit the scum abilitiy to manipulate the results. It's bad if we have nominated 3 townies, but that was pretty much always going to be the case. In the case where we have nominated 1 scum, but also 2 Townies, it seems the Mafia can always arrange it to leave the scum alive (make the Executioner a Mafia and put the Mafia in front of him). If we manage to nominate 2 or 3 scum, we would be gold.

This seems like the right strategy except in one case. If the judge doesn't claim (and I don't think he should), then the mafia might send the judge to himself. Unlikely, but possible. Another option is that if the judge waits until day 2 to claim, then we can maybe have some night action information. That way we will still be able to figure out who was sent to the judge (probably end up becoming WIFOM anyways).

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

DCLXVI (8): WrathChild, WrathChild, Ser Panda, Ser Panda, StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug, TheShadow, DoomYoshi

Arugula (7): Quilford, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, DoomYoshi
TheShadow (6): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia, DCLXVI, Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner
Sir Bastion (6): Thor665, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, Nocmen, TheShadow
vijay2vasandani (6): Nero Cain, guille2015, Nocmen, Arugula, Arugula, TheShadow
Ser Panda (2): DCLXVI, Axelrod
Teleporting Speed Hippos (2): Nero Cain, Axelrod
Axelrod (2): Quilford, Quilford
Nocmen (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
Scott Brosius (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
WrathChild (1): Nero Cain
Thor665 (1): DCLXVI
Knight of Cydonia (1): guille2015
DoomYoshi (1): guille2015
Nero Cain (1): Nocmen
StrangerCoug (1): Ser Panda
guille2015 (1): DoomYoshi

13

votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

0

of which are frozen, leaving

63

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

[Thor665]

Lynchings

and

killings are barbarian

I think v2v is town and that wagon sucks - discuss.

[DCLXVI]

Leaning town on DCLXVI so I'm intrigued by the wagon there.

Lynchings

and

killings are barbarian

I think v2v is town and that wagon sucks - discuss.

vijay is null for me right now. The "arugula is mod confirmed scum" thing was silly but not really indicative of his alignment.

Do you have scumreads on any of the top five wagons? (those with 6+ votes)

----------

For the reasoning on TSH. If your argument is correct, it is possible that you are scum for realizing the correct scum mechanic. I am not sure if it is the correct scum mechanic yet though, as I don't think you are right in your interpretation of the rules. So TSH is not cleared IMO.

...this is some terrible logic here.

let's see now, according to Yoshi:

-If DCL's reasoning is correct then DCL is scum.
-But DCL's reasoning is not likely to be correct
-But whatever, I'm still voting DCL because of his reasoning.

um yeah, this looks a lot like scum trying too hard to make a case on someone and just failing abysmally.

UNVOTE: Ser Panda
VOTE: DoomYoshi

----------

@axelrod, I can't say that I like your plan.

First off, it might be very easy for scum to circumvent it with the executioner, depending on how that works.

Secondly, it is possible for someone to get to 11 votes with only 6-7 people voting for them. Do we want to put ourselves in a situation where we want to automatically kill someone when only 33% of the players want that guy dead?

[Sir Bastion]

Secondly, it is possible for someone to get to 11 votes with only 6-7 people voting for them. Do we want to put ourselves in a situation where we want to automatically kill someone when only 33% of the players want that guy dead?

that's a good argument against the automatically lynch every defendent policy suggested earlier.

[Thor665]

Do you have scumreads on any of the top five wagons? (those with 6+ votes)

Let's see - I moved a vote to Arugula.
I'm double voting Sir Bastion.

Nah, clearly I think both are obv. town and am just playing badly. What of it?

[Arugula]

Because he obviously doesn't have it mod-confirmed that you are scum.
The fact that you think he's being serious tells me that you really ARE scum.

I know he's not serious, but the fact that my wagon is gaining votes based on that bothers me.

If I was scum, I would be raging hard right now about how it's unfair and ask him where the mod confirmed me scum. But I know it's not true.

[DCLXVI]

@thor, yeah, probably should have checked the votecount..oops

that's a good argument against the automatically lynch every defendent policy suggested earlier.

Bastion needs to stop cheerleading and start scumhunting...

UNVOTE: thor665. VOTE: sir bastion

[TheShadow]

UNVOTE: Vijay
VOTE: Sir Bastion

[Ser Panda]

Unvote DCL
Unvote DCL

Vote Bastion
Vote Bastion

I'm going to be passing judgement on you bastion.

[Ser Panda]

Unvote DCL
Unvote DCL
Vote Bastion

If I was scum, I would be raging hard right now about how it's unfair and ask him where the mod confirmed me scum. But I know it's not true.

This is bad

I hate fucking "IF I was scum" arguments.

Vote Arugula.

[Gooner]

Why is everybody ignoring Shadow's mega scummy post? He's the best lynch today, far better than the silly wagons on vijay or Arugula. Sir Bastion wagon does interest me and I can see the argument for Sir Bastion

VOTE: Sir Bastion

By the way Sir Bastion is now up to 10 votes.

Regarding the automatic execution plan, this is what I think:
1. Judge should automatically execute if he reveals. Otherwise it just becomes a continuous game of WIFOM. If he doesn't reveal, I think Judge should execute most of the time unless he has serious misgivings about a lynch. I trust the Judge at the moment to make good decisions.
2. The Jury should definitely not execute automatically. I'll tell you why. The Jury is a random collection of players who may be scum or townies. They have to pass judgement on a player. This presents us with some extra voting data on those players within the Jury and gives us extra information about them. Just automatically executing corrupts this data. For this same reason, members of the Jury should always reveal on the next day and they should also reveal who voted for whom.
3. Telling the Executioner what to do is probably useless for the simple reason that if I were scum I would always pick the Executioner to be scum. It gives the scum the power to kill a townie or save a Mafia without any town say in it.

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

Sir Bastion (9): Thor665, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, Nocmen, TheShadow, DCLXVI, Ser Panda, Gooner

Arugula (8): Quilford, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, DoomYoshi, Ser Panda
TheShadow (7): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia, DCLXVI, Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner, TheShadow
DCLXVI (6): WrathChild, WrathChild, StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug, TheShadow, DoomYoshi
vijay2vasandani (5): Nero Cain, guille2015, Nocmen, Arugula, Arugula
Teleporting Speed Hippos (2): Nero Cain, Axelrod
Axelrod (2): Quilford, Quilford
Nocmen (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
Scott Brosius (2): Sir Bastion, Knight of Cydonia
DoomYoshi (2): guille2015, DCLXVI
Ser Panda (1): Axelrod
WrathChild (1): Nero Cain
Knight of Cydonia (1): guille2015
Nero Cain (1): Nocmen
StrangerCoug (1): Ser Panda
guille2015 (1): DoomYoshi

12

votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

0

of which are frozen, leaving

63

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

[Thor665]

@Ser Panda - what's your Bastion case again, I forgot?

[Ser Panda]

@Ser Panda - what's your Bastion case again, I forgot?

Oh?

You're double voting the guy.

Why should you care about my reasons for voting the guy?

Unvote Strangercoug

Vote Thor

[Ser Panda]

Unvote Sir Bastion

Vote Thor.

Thor's last post tells me that he's expecting a Sir Bastion town flip.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Unvote: The Shadow
Unvote: Scott Brosius
Vote: Thor
Vote: Thor

Looks a hell of a lot like scum lining up for an "I TOLD YOU SO, THAT WHOLE WAGON WAS SCUM DRIVEN, GET THEM ALL"

[Thor665]

@Ser - You were about to double vote the guy - I'm doing it for RVS, I was curious why you were doing it.

[Ser Panda]

Bastion needs to stop cheerleading and start scumhunting.

Because I agreed with this.



But tell me Why were you so curious?

[Ser Panda]

Do you have scumreads on any of the top five wagons? (those with 6+ votes)

Let's see - I moved a vote to Arugula.
I'm double voting Sir Bastion.

Nah, clearly I think both are obv. town and am just playing badly. What of it?

I'm doing it for RVS, I was curious why you were doing it.

I see a contradiction.