Judge, Jury, and Executioner - Over

[Sir Bastion]

unvote: Scott unvote: Nocmen

vote quilford vote quilford

Ser is town cause he's owning the lynch proudly. Don't like that quil is already excusing himself.

[Quilford]

Oh, please. Claim scum harder.

You don't like that I'm telling the truth? I have zero motivation to draw attention to my lack of posting as scum.

[Sir Bastion]

Why did you vote someone twice in a rvs?

[Quilford]

VOTE: Axelrod, VOTE: Arugula, and VOTE: Sir Bastion for being the last three in the player list.

VOTE: Axelrod
VOTE: Axelrod
VOTE: Arugula

Three, two, one!

Three votes on Axelrod, two votes on Arugula, one vote on you. Hence "Three, two, one!"

Why are you asking me about my random voting of all things?

[Sir Bastion]

Cause that was where you *forgot* your vote on aruga.

[Quilford]

Which is relevant how? Do you think I somehow predicted the Arugula wagon two posts into the game?

[Sir Bastion]

No of course not.

But I'm curious that (and this is not just you) people putting multiple votes on someone on in rvs seemed odd, risky too.


Considering you've said little else so far I thought this might be a good starting point...

[Quilford]

Can anyone else hear that squeaking noise? I'm pretty sure it's Sir Bastion furiously backpedaling

[Axelrod]

Unvote: Ser Panda

Despite my inherrent dislike of Hydra's, I like the way he's talking.

Unvote: FlyingTeleportingPinkHippos or whatever your name really is

This is not because I think he's town. He hasn't really posted enough to get a feeling.

I like my Vote on TheShadow. He's rubbing me the wrong way for a couple of posts, particularly the Argula hammer. In fact:

Vote: The Shadow

I'll try to look up the others in a bit.

I am definitely not in love with how fast Thor and Argula were hammered. I also think the way Argula double voted Thor at the end probably means they are not scum together. So one might be right, but not both. Of the two, I might lean somewhat more towards Thor based on his general attitide displayed so far, but I'm not at all confident in that. He is very hard to read because of the bulldog style.

Up next: looking at Sir Bastion!

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

TheShadow (7): Sir Bastion, DCLXVI, Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner, Nocmen, Axelrod

Sir Bastion (6): Thor665, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, DCLXVI, Gooner
DCLXVI (4): WrathChild, WrathChild, StrangerCoug, whispersilk
vijay2vasandani (4): Nero Cain, guille2015, Nocmen, Arugula
DoomYoshi (4): guille2015, DCLXVI, Mastermind of Sin, Mastermind of Sin
Ser Panda (2): StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug
Quilford (2): Sir Bastion, Sir Bastion
Nero Cain (2): Nocmen, whispersilk
Nocmen (1): Knight of Cydonia
Knight of Cydonia (1): guille2015
Gooner (1): Nero Cain

10

votes are currently not on a player.

Arugula (11): Quilford, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, DoomYoshi, Ser Panda, Nero Cain, Nero Cain, TheShadow
Thor665 (11): Ser Panda, Ser Panda, Knight of Cydonia, Knight of Cydonia, Quilford, Quilford, DoomYoshi, DoomYoshi, whispersilk, Arugula, Arugula

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

22

of which are frozen, leaving

41

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

[Sir Bastion]

My bike is a well oilled machine. Since your vote was an rvs do you agree with the hammer?

[Sir Bastion]

Oh and one more!!!


If you had a vote left would you be voting me now?

[Axelrod]

But scum might have power roles that can affect judge...So a claim could be bad until we know more

Hypothetically, what type of roles are you imagining here. I'm curious.

@Sir Bastion - what sort of more do you expect us to learn?

Dont know, I doubt there would be a need for traditional power roles since as hippos point out there is no factional NK, so scum might have powers that affect the judge or the jury or something. I think having the judge claim day 1 before we see one cycle of the system at least is too hasty.

This is not entirely correct, in as much as the Mafia have control over who is the Executioner and the Executioner can execute all by himself, it can serve as the functional equivilent of the scum factional NK.

If the scum use it this way, then the people being sent to the Judge and the Jury potentially become freebies for the Mafia, and yet, these are the only ways the Town is ever going to be able to kill a scum. This was part of the driving ideas behind the possible policy of having Jury and Judge (and Executioner) always convict. If there is even one scum in the group of three we send, then we at least get one (OR, the Mafia elect to save the scum by sending him to the Executioner and not convicting, which at least identifies that person as very likely scum, and we can at least keep sending him back.

There may be many flaws with this idea so I'm not saying we should definitely do this, but I'm still thinking about it.

Secondly, it is possible for someone to get to 11 votes with only 6-7 people voting for them. Do we want to put ourselves in a situation where we want to automatically kill someone when only 33% of the players want that guy dead?

that's a good argument against the automatically lynch every defendent policy suggested earlier.

This might be a better argument for a "don't use your votes to double vote someone" policy. At least bringing back the number of people needed to lynch to a majority again. That could also avoid speed lynching like we just saw.

Maybe we just implement this when there is only one person left to be lynched?

Unvote: TheShadow

No of course not.

But I'm curious that (and this is not just you) people putting multiple votes on someone on in rvs seemed odd, risky too.

Considering you've said little else so far I thought this might be a good starting point...

How risky do you

really

think it was?

[TheShadow]

And now to get the other scumread.

VOTE: Sir Bastion
VOTE: Sir Bastion

[Sir Bastion]

How risky do you really think it was?

Dcl is third highest wagon and 2 of his 3 voters voted him in rvs...


Also a few of the votes for Thor were rvs too (such as whispers)

[Axelrod]

Or maybe I could forget what I just said and vote TheShadow!

Vote: TheShadow

5 posts. None of which is more than a sentence, but still managed to make this somewhat contradictory statement:

I'm for a judge claim, since it gives us a confirmed town. But don't claim unless you're close to hammer.

Throwing lots of votes around with zero explanation beyond unspecified "scumread". Hammered Argula after announcing intention to do so. Now pushing hard on the leading wagon, again with zero actual content.

Please explain your "scumreads" on Argula and Sir Bastion.

[Scott Brosius]

Oye forgot about this, will read up.

[Thor665]

Unvote: Sir Bastion
Vote: The Shadow

I'm also amazed that people are acting like my being hammered was remotely close to just considering it was 6 people who decided it - wake up derp heads.

Shadow should probably be third over Sir Bastion.

[DoomYoshi]

@Nocmen, I never said you had to be on a main wagon. But you did say that you are happy with your votes. I am trying to figure out why you are happy with votes on players that you have expressed no suspicion over and which have close to 0% chance of getting lynched today.

High five

[Sir Bastion]

Who own the 10 votes not voting?

[TheShadow]

And I was going to save this for L-1, but with the double-vote system I'm in danger of being hammered at L-2.

RoleClaim: Bloodhound

I can target someone at night, and am told if they were named Executioner that night.

[Nero Cain]

lol considering that the mafia is the ones that pick the Exex this very much seems like a fake claim.

[WrathChild]

@ Axelrod: It doesn't quite do nothing for us. It gives the Town a confirmed townie whose opinion we can certainly trust and who can become a figurehead for the town during the course of the game. It also narrows down the pool of suspects for us.

Representing it as doing nothing is frankly, wrong. Although I do agree with your conclusion that a Judge claim at the moment is not the right move.

Leaving my other vote on Axelrod for now. Although we have discussed the drawbacks of the judge claiming immediately (what I've mainly seen is that it enables the scum to manipulate the judge), it does give us a confirmed townie, and dead judges are replaced by new judges. It's a misrepresentation that it does nothing for us. It does, but at a cost.

If we had a Town role, and his role was essentially he could claim and be mod-confirmed as Town immediately, it would be an incredibly poor use of that role to claim it immediately. It would have almost no beneficial effect. This is what I am saying. Not that it

literally

does nothing.

Yes, we would have one person whose opinion we could "trust." Big deal. His opinion is not going to be any better founded than my opinion, or anyone else's - certainly not at this point. It is so much better for this person to wait and come out if he's about to get nominated, so we have stuff to analyze about how he got in that position.

Commenting as I go...

Basically what Axelrod said. Early Day 1 is the absolute worst time to pull a confirmed town card out (CTC from here on). A CTC is best used when there are less players. When revealed at the right time a CTC can drastically narrow down the scum pool. As the game proceeds, we will gather more and more information, much of which will give us a good idea of who is scum and who is town. Pulling out a CTC at the right time can potentially cement a scum-lynch. However, I do agree that upon threat of hammer or even L-2, Judge should claim. The ideal situation is that the Judge tries not to rely on an easy claim to save themselves and play in a way that doesn't put them in the position to be forced to claim before the ideal opportunity.

[Sir Bastion]

unvote theshadow

[Thor665]

@Sir Bastion - why the unvote? (to clarify - what makes you both believe the claim *and* think it's a PR worth saving)