Judge, Jury, and Executioner - Over

[DoomYoshi]

I don't understand why Thor got lynched. I'm willing to run up anyone who placed two votes on him to push that through.

Thank you for yet another voluminous contribution.

Let me explain the Thor wagon in rapid fire condensed quotes:

"Thor, why are your votes placed?"
"I don't have to have reasons, they are RVS votes"
"so why don't you change them"
"because I have reasons for them"
"and those reasons are..."
"I don't have to have reasons, they are RVS votes"

Basically, Thor took set panda on a circular logic tour. Some of us took great exception to this.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yea, like I said, I don't understand why Thor got lynched. I ISO'd him and you're completely full of shit. Pretty happy with my votes on you right now.

[Nocmen]

Thanks for the opportunity thor, but I am tending towards belief with the shadow, based mainly on his claim, which I see as a realistic claim. Nocmen ignored my last response. Does that mean you are conceding the point?

No, I'm not going to place a hammer vote on someone just because it's that close to a lynch. How else will wagons start if someone doesn't place the first vote?

As for voting people I've placed no suspicon on...how is that different from you actions?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Nocmen you should vote DoomYoshi with me. Do it for great justice!

[Thor665]

"Thor, why are your votes placed?"
"I don't have to have reasons, they are RVS votes"
"so why don't you change them"
"because I have reasons for them"
"and those reasons are..."
"I don't have to have reasons, they are RVS votes"

Basically, Thor took set panda on a circular logic tour. Some of us took great exception to this.

Not so much...

Here's my take;

"Thor, why did you question my vote when I'm voting the way you are voting? It's scummy!"
"Why can't I do that, and how is it scummy?"
"It is, you once said that you found him scummy, what was the reason!?"
"It was RVS reasoning."
"But that's unpossible! RVS must be absolutely and totally random!"
"Okay, by that logic it wasn't RVS reasoning."

Somewhere in there I got lynched and also accused by a couple people of having conflicting reads. i got Arugula to reverse his call and go into hiding, and the other guy (WrathChild) hasn't been back to quote the contradiction.

Want to quote where I said I didn't need to have reasons for my vote? I'll happily endorse you as obv. town if you can. I'm mildly suspicious you'll find me saying it was an RVS vote, but that I found him scummy...but, y'know, that might make sense and drive the entire wagon into a further wreck than it already was.
C'mon, back up the case on me and prove it wasn't total derp - SOMEONE ought to be able to do that...right?

@MoS - I appreciate the backup and buddying of the obv. town who got speed wagoned - that said, you're voting what appears to be the most likely town person who helped lynch me, so...whut? How is Ser Panda possibly worse than the others?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Thank you for yet another voluminous contribution.

Oh, and for the record, this shit is ScumYoshi going out of his way to do anything he can to quiet and discredit dissenting opinions. There is no logical reason to make such a statement except as a mudslinging attempt at anyone who would dare question the Thor lynch. The game thread opened on Friday, and anyone who was paying even remote attention would know that I've been V/LA basically every weekend for the last two months, and that this one was no different. Even taking that general knowledge out of the equation, there was the fact that my account itself was labeled as V/LA for 3 days (handy, ain't it?), and the fact that despite having had no more than 20 minutes to spend on the site since coming back to town, I've still managed to post twice in this game. ScumYoshi's attack on me is a subtle OMGUS at best and at worst it's a deliberate attempt to imply that because I do not have as much time to spend spamming up this thread as everyone else that somehow my posts should be cast aside and disregarded simply because I kept them concise and to the point.

tldr - DoomYoshi is scum, let's lynch him and move on, please.

[Mastermind of Sin]

@MoS - I appreciate the backup and buddying of the obv. town who got speed wagoned - that said, you're voting what appears to be the most likely town person who helped lynch me, so...whut? How is Ser Panda possibly worse than the others?

Of the 5 people who placed 2 votes on you, one of them is already lynched and I have two votes on another one. That leaves Quilford, Knight of Cydonia, and Ser Panda. KoC currently has no votes, so I flipped a coin between the other two. I'm more than willing to move my free vote to either of the others should there be interest, but really I'm mostly interested in lynching obvScumYoshi right now. Why did you choose to focus on my Ser Panda vote and not on the guy who I put 2 of my 3 votes on?

[Thor665]

I agree with the Yoshi read.

But at that stage...the Ser votes are getting even MORE questionable. I'm as full of myself as the next guy on MS, but even I don't think it took 3 scum hard nailing me to get me lynched. there had to be a fair shake of derp town helping the wagon along. So I definitely don't support trying to lynch up two more people in addition to Arugula (who, with his hammer post 3 posts after a vote count really has basically claimed) and, as I already said in thread, I see Ser Panda as the most likely of the derp town in my opinion, so I don't particularly care for that vote.

What's your take on Shadow, by the by?

[Mastermind of Sin]

We can't lynch 2 more people, Thor. You and Arugula are already strung up, there's only one more lynch for today. I'd obviously prefer it to be DoomYoshi, but I figured I'd put my third vote on a possible alternative. I'm not really holding myself to it, though. That third vote is basically in flux atm.

I have no take on Shadow at this time.

[Thor665]

You have no take on Shadow?

Have you read the thread?

[Nero Cain]

Nero, why are you afraid to hammer Shadow if you think he's scum, and what's a vote on Gullie gonna do, with only 1 lynch left?

Which head am I talking to? I wanna know which one is a moron.

I only have 1 vote left (since my first two are locked on Arg) I've

NEVER

voted Guille and I unvoted vijay a long long time ago.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I skimmed it. I don't recall seeing anything Shadow has said so far.

[Nero Cain]

Don't you think that if you can't remember his posting it should be cause for concern?

[Gooner]

I lean no. Thor's at least making some attempt to engage with people which Sir Bastion is not doing.

So are you planning on making every active person town? Nice strategy.

I don't think I said that. My point was that when it was tough to decide between them, the amount of engagement and activity does help to me decide. In that category Thor wins.

[Gooner]

Also, I think Judge should claim - discuss.

maybe

later but not yet

.

Explain. Why is it a bad idea for the Judge to claim

today

?

not exactly what I said.

When I get around to changing votes I have one slot reserved for ya. Congrats.

Ummm... I think it is and if it's not then I presume that it is only a minor deviation from what you meant.

And you didn't answer my question. Explain why "later but not yet".

Day 1 is gonna last for what 3 weeks? Quite frankly I think its silly that he should claim TODAY, NOW. I also find it rather strange that you don't want him to claim and yet

you

(apparently) find it scummy for me to suggest that he shouldn't claim.

Arg's reaction to vijays RVS in 53 seems rather off.

I never said I found it scummy. I was just questioning it because it might lead to a scum doing something scummy.

As it is your position is now clear to me although I am still curious as to why it's better for him to claim later than it is for him to claim now.

[Gooner]

forgot to point his out earlier.

1. Judge should automatically execute if he reveals. Otherwise it just becomes a continuous game of WIFOM. If he doesn't reveal, I think Judge should execute most of the time unless he has serious misgivings about a lynch. I trust the Judge at the moment to make good decisions.

Hm, this is such a brilliant idea...NOT.

All this does is make sure that the mafia will send a townperson to the judge. This just adds more wifom to The game. That isn't something we need at the moment...or ever...

Which is exactly why I'm against the Judge revealing. From there it just becomes a game of WIFOM so it just makes things almost impossible for the Judge whatever policy we tell him to pursue. Him killing always at least gives us information and a solid alignment to use later instead of the confusion that not doing so would cause in the Town.

That is my reasoning.

[Gooner]

Now, the Shadow claim. The first time I read it it seemed like a townie role to me.

But then Thor pointed out that it was very unlikely to be useful over the course of the game and even then it may lead to a scum double bluff.

So we have a virtually useless role and a very scummy player for multiple reasons.

I still favour the Shadow lynch.

[Ser Panda]

Oh, unless your theory is I'm a potent scum PR and Arugula isn't. That might work though you may still want to explain why he didn't give his potent PR scumbuddy a shot at claiming first.

no the theory is scum control the judicial system and that just because you got hammered doesn't mean you're dead. and when arugula flips scum, it gives you a mountain of town-cred.

you don't think this is a possibility?

[Ser Panda]

I'm for a judge claim, since it gives us a confirmed town. But don't claim unless you're close to hammer.

SC

help me understand this.

Isn't what shadow said common sense?

My stated reason for voting you is because you acted like Thor should not care about what other people think, which is patently false. If you think the "shenanigans" are scummy, then you think the "shenanigans" are scummy. Disagreeing with me is a null tell and I can understand how people who either are unfamiliar with or do not care about Thor's meta thinks what he has done is scummy.

And about this.

Thor's tone in asking me that came across as someone expecting a sir bastion town flip and then trying to pile up shit on me to use tomorrow which is why I jumped on that.

[Ser Panda]

What purpose would town have in knowing who the mafia selected?

Mafia control the judicial system.

and they control who gets tried where.

and if scum gets sent to the executioner and gets pardoned, then the role seems very useful to catch that executioner. its like a modified tracker.

[Ser Panda]

lol. If anyone is getting worked up its ya'll. My attack is NOT based on you guys thinkin' that Arg/Thor are scum (though I think its scummy fencesitting) The attack is based on one of your heads deflecting Thor's question. Sayin' "OH BUT LOOK I'M ON THE OTHER WAGON TOO!!!." is extremly cheeky. Its minimal and derpy. Then was the time to say "oh I think they are both scum so I'm happy with Thor as a defendent." Saying "I'm on the other wagon." is NOT.

You should actually read properly.
but yeah I forgive you.
your school-girl crush on thor is the problem.

Thor's question was dumb considering I think arugula is scum.

And you're actually sheeping the reason I used to vote for arugula.

So thats pretty funny also.

[Ser Panda]

"Thor, why did you question my vote when I'm voting the way you are voting? It's scummy!"
"Why can't I do that, and how is it scummy?"
"It is, you once said that you found him scummy, what was the reason!?"
"It was RVS reasoning."
"But that's unpossible! RVS must be absolutely and totally random!"
"Okay, by that logic it wasn't RVS reasoning."

Here's how I saw it.

Thor's voting for sir bastion expecting him to flip scum.
When I vote for him, he asks me in a tone which tells me hes expecting bastion to flip town and asks me for my case.
I find that scummy yes.
I tell thor this.
Thor now tells me its RVS reasoning.
I show him proof that its not.
but thor keeps calling it RVS reasoning.
keeps waffling on a sir bastion read.
still keeps both of his votes on him all the while when sir bastion was L-2.

And thor

Do you have scumreads on any of the top five wagons? (those with 6+ votes)

Let's see - I moved a vote to Arugula.
I'm double voting Sir Bastion.

Nah, clearly I think both are obv. town and am just playing badly. What of it?[/b]

I'm doing it for RVS, I was curious why you were doing it.

I see a contradiction.

can you help me understand the bolded?

Your high and mighty attitude fails pretty bad if you can't be rational.

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

TheShadow (10): DCLXVI, Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner, Nocmen, Axelrod, Thor665, Nero Cain, Sir Bastion, Nocmen

Sir Bastion (6): Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, Gooner, StrangerCoug, guille2015, Scott Brosius
DoomYoshi (4): guille2015, DCLXVI, Mastermind of Sin, Mastermind of Sin
vijay2vasandani (3): Nero Cain, guille2015, Nocmen, Arugula
guille2015 (3): Scott Brosius, Scott Brosius, Nero Cain
Ser Panda (3): StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug, Mastermind of Sin
Quilford (2): Sir Bastion, Sir Bastion
Nocmen (2): Knight of Cydonia, Thor665
Nero Cain (1): whispersilk
DCLXVI (1): whispersilk

8

votes are currently not on a player.

Arugula (11): Quilford, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, DoomYoshi, Ser Panda, Nero Cain, Nero Cain, TheShadow
Thor665 (11): Ser Panda, Ser Panda, Knight of Cydonia, Knight of Cydonia, Quilford, Quilford, DoomYoshi, DoomYoshi, whispersilk, Arugula, Arugula

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

22

of which are frozen, leaving

41

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

[Ser Panda]

Nero, why are you afraid to hammer Shadow if you think he's scum, and what's a vote on Gullie gonna do, with only 1 lynch left?

Which head am I talking to? I wanna know which one is a moron.

I only have 1 vote left (since my first two are locked on Arg) I've

NEVER

voted Guille and I unvoted vijay a long long time ago.

Geez.. that was supposed to be Nocmen.

"Nocmen, why are you afraid to hammer Shadow if you think he's scum, and what's a vote on Gullie gonna do, with only 1 lynch left?"

[WrathChild]

I'm done with work for today but I noticed something that I'll throw out there before I go:

"The Executioner is like the Judge, except chosen by the Mafia every night. They can be of any alignment, but not a defendant, and will not flip as such."

Why would knowing who the executioner was be helpful to the town? Since it does not dictate alignment in anyway, town should 100% claim if they were the Executioner the previous night and take responsibility for their decision.

I still think this is important. No one commented on it, so I'm bumping it.