Mini 1353 - Dr. Who Mafia - The End of Time (Game Over)

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 3.1 - As of post 675

Greenknight (1) - GreyICE
Acosmist (4) - CryMeARiver, T-Bone, Greenknight, triangle123
T-Bone (1) - Acosmist

Not Voting (2) - Starbuck, Zang

The Current deadline is August 6, 2012 at 4:00pm EDT. Countdown is (expired on 2012-08-06 16:00:00).

With 8 active votes - 5 are required to lynch.

Activity Check - All currently good.

[T-Bone]

It was the way he did it Triangle. Obviously as scum he wants two things from this lynch. He wants to lynch the SK, and he wants the day to end with as little discussion as possible. His quick check in to vote and check out accomplishes that. No one else did that as blatantly as he did, and that's why his vote was the worst on the wagon.

Also Triangle, I tend to generalize when making arguements. Sure he 'did eventually' justify his reads. But, it's easy for scum to come back later and justify why they are calling someone town or scum. Plus there was my whole discussion as to the coincidence that he suspected the top two wagons, which in my mind, the cases on both of them were so distinct and opposite of each other. I know in my mind because I read GK as town, that he couldn't be scum with Jason. But this goes back to some of my discussion as to why I find him scummy.

[GreyICE]

It was the way he did it Triangle. Obviously as scum he wants two things from this lynch. He wants to lynch the SK, and he wants the day to end with as little discussion as possible. His quick check in to vote and check out accomplishes that. No one else did that as blatantly as he did, and that's why his vote was the worst on the wagon.

Also Triangle, I tend to generalize when making arguements. Sure he 'did eventually' justify his reads. But, it's easy for scum to come back later and justify why they are calling someone town or scum. Plus there was my whole discussion as to the coincidence that he suspected the top two wagons, which in my mind, the cases on both of them were so distinct and opposite of each other. I know in my mind because I read GK as town, that he couldn't be scum with Jason. But this goes back to some of my discussion as to why I find him scummy.

See T-Bone, what I don't see is a reason why voting the Serial Killer was a bad thing.

Obviously we were going to lynch Iecerint. It goes without saying. But now you're trying to make hay out of the fact that we speed lynched a serial killer.

In any case, reaction test was AWESOME. Greenknight is confirmed town. Zang is town.

Starbuck? I'll give someone mondo town credit if they see what's wrong with her post.

Vote: Starbuck

She's fucking scummy scum, and gets to die today.

Acosmist is a stupid wagon, and T-Bone is... yeah, at least 80% likely to be scum. Or playing Polite Mafia T-Boner, which, well... T-Bone are you playing the way you did in Polite Mafia?

[GreyICE]

Seriously Grey? You were calling all my d1 attackers scum yesterday and now you vote me for no reason?

Speaking of which I still suspect starbuck and acos for previously covered reasons, but not so much triangle because after rereading Tierce she looked to be actively attempting to discredit triangle at 2 points - first by agreeing with triangle's reasoning regarding me (knowing I would flip town) then the attack on triangle's meta arguments late in the day.

It's funny Acos quoted his own post just now, as I think acos is in fact the one who's mad about being called out by T-bone as scum for the wrong reasons here. which is why he's using this factual error = deliberate lying = scum argument.

vote: Acosmist

Also don't really believe that starbuck as town would get super excited and claim immediately without reading the 2 pages posted so far on day 2, whereas I can see scum having a fakeclaim prepared and ready to go should there be unexpected night results.

CMAR, what other strong reads do you have at this point?

Green... You're terrible town.

Acosmist is town too.

Now get your fucking vote up or I'll hose you. Starbuck, CryMeARiver, or T-Boner are the wagons of the day.

[CryMeARiver]

Seriously Grey? You were calling all my d1 attackers scum yesterday and now you vote me for no reason?

Speaking of which I still suspect starbuck and acos for previously covered reasons, but not so much triangle because after rereading Tierce she looked to be actively attempting to discredit triangle at 2 points - first by agreeing with triangle's reasoning regarding me (knowing I would flip town) then the attack on triangle's meta arguments late in the day.

It's funny Acos quoted his own post just now, as I think acos is in fact the one who's mad about being called out by T-bone as scum for the wrong reasons here. which is why he's using this factual error = deliberate lying = scum argument.

vote: Acosmist

Also don't really believe that starbuck as town would get super excited and claim immediately without reading the 2 pages posted so far on day 2, whereas I can see scum having a fakeclaim prepared and ready to go should there be unexpected night results.

CMAR, what other strong reads do you have at this point?

Green... You're terrible town.

Acosmist is town too.

Now get your fucking vote up or I'll hose you. Starbuck, CryMeARiver, or T-Boner are the wagons of the day.

Nah, I was planning on making it at least one more day. Til the massclaim at the very least.

4. GreyICE - Town
5. Greenknight - Town
8. Acosmist *
9. Starbuck
10. T-Bone *
11. Zang - Town
12. triangle123 - Regretfully town
13. CryMeARiver * - Town

Once these three die, town wins.

[GreyICE]

You're not just the least posts in the thread CMAR. You're so far behind that you'd have to spam like Chesskid to get back in the post count.

Oh, but they've all been really great content-filled outings?

Happy 4th to everyone! Just got my ND roomate assignment but I'm pretty much free up until my V/LA next week after today.

Tell all post tomorrow, just been super busy working and everything.

Back from my V/LA, deadline is fast approaching and we need a lynch.

Also, sorry for the triple post, but the idea of a doctor targeting the person you target sort of breaks down that entire role.

Hey, you remember who else soft-claimed a power role to try and push lynches off of them?

TIERCE.

You claim like scum, you are scum. You claiming like scum, CMAR?

[GreyICE]

It's currently 6:2. Tomorrow it's 4:2 MyLo.

You planning on claiming a guilty tomorrow, CMAR? Because I'll auto-lynch you.

[CryMeARiver]

Eh, once again, there is method to my madness.

I mean, I guess I could be the lynch today. But I was, once again h,oping for a mass claim before I'm lynched at least.

[CryMeARiver]

It's currently 6:2. Tomorrow it's 4:2 MyLo.

You planning on claiming a guilty tomorrow, CMAR? Because I'll auto-lynch you.

Yeah, and for this reason I think it directly helps the town to lynch me tomorrow before today but I suppose it's your call.

[CryMeARiver]

It's currently 6:2. Tomorrow it's 4:2 MyLo.

You planning on claiming a guilty tomorrow, CMAR? Because I'll auto-lynch you.

Oh and I'm vengeful by the way.

I wasn't going to claim since mafia would probably kill me, but because of my purposely bad (well not bad, but lurkerish) play, if they kill me I'll be saving a pro-town player from dying.

But tomorrow would be better because we get two chances at getting the lynch right (in case you guys don't trust I'm town, which you have no reason to do so even though I haven't been anti-town, just lurked).

[greenknight]

vote: Starbuck

for now I don't want the day to end yet but grey, exactly why is acos town?

As for Starbuck's claim, I do agree that the timing of it feels off and it's scummy that she would be so convinced that Kortul must have hid behind her. That said, I just don't see her Tierce-vote in Day 1 as a bus because at the time, there wasn't much of a Tierce wagon to speak of. It doesn't make sense that she would try to sacrifice a competent buddy like that. For now, she remains a town read of mine.

Well tierce wasn't deep cover anymore by that point, not only had grey been attacking her for a while but she'd also look bad after Jason flipped town. I think it makes sense for someone to distance in this situation since Jason was playing badly and likely to be lynched anyway (Remember we had Acos and t-bone both sitting off the wagon but claiming the other was scum with Jason, so no matter their alignment those were effectively Jason votes in reserve.)

CMAR: so your plan was to be lynched? Sure that works if we have an even number of players going into the endgame as it's a free town kill, but what if we had an odd number?

[Starbuck]

Okay, sorry about that, I'm back now. Finals are officially over. Let me catch up.

[Starbuck]

jasonT1981 (LYNCH) -

Tierce

,

Iecerint

, CryMeARiver,

kortul

,

Korlash

, triangle123, greenknight
Iecerint (LYNCH) - GreyICE,

Korlash

, CryMeARiver, Acosmist, Zang,

Starbuck

There's scum on that Jason lynch. I need to read over the connections between Tierce and triangle, greenknight and CMAR.

The only person that's the same on Day 2 is CMAR. Without ISOing him yet, I see him going on the jason wagon because he's a Tierce buddy, then when he sees the results going, "I need town cred" and thus voting the SK.

Greenknight was voting Acosmist and then T-Bone and triangle didn't even place votes. Greenknight, what was so important about voting Acosmist over voting someone who was proven scum/SK? I mean, you make a point to point it out to me in #627 when you, again, assume that I am scum. If you were town, you'd be lynching obvscum with fire, but you were not.

The part that I refer to there is this:

Iec's claim marking him as probable SK

Also don't really believe that starbuck as town would get super excited and claim immediately without reading the 2 pages posted so far on day 2, whereas I can see scum having a fakeclaim prepared and ready to go should there be unexpected night results.

She can and she did. She's much more careful as scum, I've been doing finals since about this time last week. I thought I had something when I saw that kortul died, obviously, I didn't. I can understand the reactions of my fellow town, but I am not scum. The scum is in another timeline.

[GreyICE]

Starbuck, wagon analysis. You are doing it wrong. There's several important facts to note.

1) Tierce claimed an 'unknown power role.' That scares inexperienced townies who don't like lynching power claims off her. Yes, she claimed like scum and Jason claimed like town. So?

2) Jason's play was... less than entirely stellar. Tierce was playing a much better game than him, in the abstract. Just she was playing a much better SCUM game than he was playing a TOWN game.

3) Deadline hit.

Why Greenknight is virtually confirmed town

What makes you think that GreyICE would make that list as scum? You were trying for a reaction from Zang and have this whole elaborate argument for it... but can't see GreyICE doing the same, and instead jump on it as if it makes him scum?

Because the list looks like he is just trying to agree with as many people as possible.

Hint: it's a reaction test, and you're failing it badly.

Oh, so you don't think a player who rode a joke claim through the RVS should post some actual reasoning once the joke is done?

Tell me, how am I "failing" this so-called reaction test?

Greenknight is new at this game. You're telling me a new player faked this level of pissed at his scumbuddy?

I dun see it.

His reaction today to me voting him was pretty much the same as his reaction to Tierce. Similar reactions to both TOWN and SCUM attacking him?

That's the ideal. Greenknight isn't part of the elite capable of the highly rarified levels of idealized scumplay - or if he is, I'll officially compliment him after this game. Not worried that he is, the list of people who are are vanishingly short.

So we continue.

[GreyICE]

CMAR

Vengeful claim here means that he most likely will be lynched. Probably tomorrow, to normalize the 4:2 into either a 3:1 (he flips scum) or a (hopefully) 2:1.

But what if a protective role or something makes it 5:2 tomorrow?

Well that's fine, free lynch. Do not lynch CMAR. Instead, lynch him in 2:1 LyLo.

He flips scum? Cash. He flips town? 50:50 on Cash. Scum kill him rather than an investigative role? Cash.

So, he can be town for now.

P.S. Having approximately zero posts in the thread is actually fairly scummy, yes.

[GreyICE]

Triangle123

After reviewing the ISO, my god, why aren't we lynching him?

Honestly, I have no idea.


Soft defense of Tierce?

Wait, wait, whoa. I think I might have missed something here, so let me try to clarify my original intentions. Someone mentioned that Tierce may be scummy for reasons including her relative lack of content in this game. Maybe I misinterpreted this, but I took this to mean they were implying Tierce could possibly not be posting on purpose. This is a strategy that is generally frowned upon, and from what I know of Tierce, she's a well-respected player and wouldn't purposefully just not post in games. So I was just trying to say that the fact that she fell behind a little bit in the game and needed time to catch up and thus wasn't posting much content for a while is likely for a legitimate reason and not something I interpret as scummy. I am NOT drawing this from any on-going games; that wasn't even in my mind when I wrote my post. This has nothing to do with a trust tell, and I don't really see how it could.

Tierce, I'm not sure what kinds of links you want me to post. I never read any games where you as either town or scum purposefully refrained from posting and that's why I said it seems like a null tell to me. Should I just post the links of the games I've read where you were a player?

Check.


Then says Tierce is null, Jason is townie, votes Jason anyway?

Argh. I don't like a Jason lynch nor a Tierce lynch. I've had a town read on Jason this whole day, and though I have a basically null read on Tierce because I still wanted to hear more from her about her thoughts on players other than Jason, I'm definitely not up for lynching a claimed power role. But I know it's too late for a GK or T-Bone lynch to go through, so:

Unvote

Vote: Jason

It's preferable to a no-lynch. Jason is now at L-1.

Check.


Fucking what are we doing, folks?

Vote: Triangle123

[Zang]

Despite his almost complete lack of content, I think CMAR may be town. I like how he is willing to lynch himself and his vengeful claim is also good.

I think it's wierd how yesterday, it seemed like everybody was calling for starbuck's lynch today and now only one person is voting for her.

See T-Bone, what I don't see is a reason why voting the Serial Killer was a bad thing.

Mafia want the SK lynched just as much as town if not more.

Also, Why is Acosmist Town?

vote: Starbuck for now I don't want the day to end yet but grey, exactly why is acos town?

Are you unvoting just because GreyICE said he was town?

[GreyICE]

vote: Starbuck

for now I don't want the day to end yet but grey, exactly why is acos town?

As for Starbuck's claim, I do agree that the timing of it feels off and it's scummy that she would be so convinced that Kortul must have hid behind her. That said, I just don't see her Tierce-vote in Day 1 as a bus because at the time, there wasn't much of a Tierce wagon to speak of. It doesn't make sense that she would try to sacrifice a competent buddy like that. For now, she remains a town read of mine.

Well tierce wasn't deep cover anymore by that point, not only had grey been attacking her for a while but she'd also look bad after Jason flipped town. I think it makes sense for someone to distance in this situation since Jason was playing badly and likely to be lynched anyway (Remember we had Acos and t-bone both sitting off the wagon but claiming the other was scum with Jason, so no matter their alignment those were effectively Jason votes in reserve.)

CMAR: so your plan was to be lynched? Sure that works if we have an even number of players going into the endgame as it's a free town kill, but what if we had an odd number?

The wagon on Acosmist is just so mediocre. Day 2 started Thursday morning, and ended Saturday afternoon, meaning it lasted barely over 48 hours. In that time we very rapidly discovered a Hider guilty on a player. Hider. Guilty. It makes a cop guilty look like a weak and flimsy thing. There's not even 'what if the cop is fakeclaiming' because the hider is confirmed town.

Acosmist did pretty much what I've done to hider guilties (LOL VOTE TARGET LOL). I mean why bother justifying vote? Money in bank.

And he's been generally hostile and combative, which is something Tierce would have commented on if he was scumbuddies with her - she would at least want to guide the town's opinion, either for his benefit or hers. As a townie, she'd be like 'heh he'll get himself wagonned soon enough.' I mean why is he really being wagonned? For being scummy, or for being annoying?

Triangle

actually bothered to do a role analysis of the serial killer's claim, complete with bells and whistles, to explain why he was voting for... someone a hider died from hiding behind. Hello trying to hard. Throw in the defense of Tierce (while exclaiming she was a null read, and backing up her 'softclaim power role' stuff) and my god why wouldn't you kill him?

Starbuck

? Why would she claim after the incredibly obvious breadcrumb? Why does it appear she didn't even read the thread?

HER FIRST POST DAY 2 WAS THAT CLAIM. The claim shows no evidence that she read anything past the flip. NOTHING.

Who opens the thread, reads the flips, panics, leaves the 'post reply' window open for 24 hours while thinking up a role claim to explain how a hider could die if they hid behind you?

Yeah, not-town.

[Starbuck]

Because I didn't read the thread and it was a dumb noob mistake.

[GreyICE]

I'm not disagreeing with that Starbuck, but it doesn't seem like a TOWN dumb noob mistake.

[Starbuck]

It's a definite town noob mistake and I regret it now.

I was trying to help explain what happened.

[T-Bone]

Fine. Whatever. Acosmist vote on the SK really is no indication of his alignment. I wasn't saying it was. I was adding it along with his Day 1 play as a reason to call him scum. His poor Day 1 play however is an indication of his alignment in my opinion. Since you pointed this out Grey, you say Tierce would have tried to deflect on Acosmist is they were scum together. In that same vein, why did Acomist ignore Tierce completely? If you do a quick CTRL + F of Acomist's ISO, Tierce doesn't show up at all. His only interactions of any meaning were with Starbuck and Kortul. So since Acosmist wasn't interacting with anyone, and with Jason close to a lynch, what makes you draw the conclusion that Tierce ignoring Acosmist rules him as town? We can play the WIFOM game all day here. If Acosmist is scum, than Tierce did a great job of convincing you he's town. Mission accomplished for Tierce. Personally I can't hold any stock in what another player did when what Acomist has done (or rather hasn't done) is all on him. His low content doesn't include any scum hunting. It includes a lot of hostility which reads "I got caught for the wrong reasons". Which I can understand. One of my original reasons was that he was playing like I did in a previous game. Everything Acosmist has done since, all the insults, the hostility, the lurking, and the non-content tell me he's upset because he thinks he's getting called scum for the wrong reasons. I'd expect a townie to explain why they aren't scum rather than attack their accuser.

Did he vote the SK? Sure. But everyone wants to get rid of the SK so that doesn't make him town either.

Bottom line, Acosmist is the best lynch today. His scum (or town) flip opens up more possibilities, because of the selectiveness he has shown with his interactions with other players this game. I think a scum-Acosmist says a lot about Starbuck for example.

Admittedly Starbuck, coming out and roleclaiming to explain kortul's death, that seemed a little panically to me. Starbuck, why does town-Starbuck panic in this situation? So what if he hid behind you. If you are town, why does that matter? I could understand if everyone was like "kortul hid behind Starbuck" but no one made that assertion.

[Starbuck]

Because I'm always afraid that if I don't come out with something like that immediately that it will fuck things up further down the line. My usual place to play mafia was the View Askew Board (which is now shutdown) and all the mafia players moved to a site called Mafiastache. When something like that happens, it is considered scummy to withhold the information. It's been awhile since I've played here and sometimes I forget how much the playstyles differ.

[GreyICE]

Fine. Whatever. Acosmist vote on the SK really is no indication of his alignment. I wasn't saying it was. I was adding it along with his Day 1 play as a reason to call him scum. His poor Day 1 play however is an indication of his alignment in my opinion. Since you pointed this out Grey, you say Tierce would have tried to deflect on Acosmist is they were scum together. In that same vein, why did Acomist ignore Tierce completely? If you do a quick CTRL + F of Acomist's ISO, Tierce doesn't show up at all. His only interactions of any meaning were with Starbuck and Kortul. So since Acosmist wasn't interacting with anyone, and with Jason close to a lynch, what makes you draw the conclusion that Tierce ignoring Acosmist rules him as town? We can play the WIFOM game all day here. If Acosmist is scum, than Tierce did a great job of convincing you he's town. Mission accomplished for Tierce. Personally I can't hold any stock in what another player did when what Acomist has done (or rather hasn't done) is all on him. His low content doesn't include any scum hunting. It includes a lot of hostility which reads "I got caught for the wrong reasons". Which I can understand. One of my original reasons was that he was playing like I did in a previous game. Everything Acosmist has done since, all the insults, the hostility, the lurking, and the non-content tell me he's upset because he thinks he's getting called scum for the wrong reasons. I'd expect a townie to explain why they aren't scum rather than attack their accuser.

Did he vote the SK? Sure. But everyone wants to get rid of the SK so that doesn't make him town either.

Bottom line, Acosmist is the best lynch today. His scum (or town) flip opens up more possibilities, because of the selectiveness he has shown with his interactions with other players this game. I think a scum-Acosmist says a lot about Starbuck for example.

Admittedly Starbuck, coming out and roleclaiming to explain kortul's death, that seemed a little panically to me. Starbuck, why does town-Starbuck panic in this situation? So what if he hid behind you. If you are town, why does that matter? I could understand if everyone was like "kortul hid behind Starbuck" but no one made that assertion.

Talk to me about Triangle, T-Boner.

Because I'm thinking CMAR and Starbuck might both be town. And GK is town, and Zang is most definitely town, so that leaves me running low on Triangle buddies. And triangle is definitely scum.

[Acosmist]

His poor Day 1 play however is an indication of his alignment in my opinion.

Full meta on me, now.