Mini 1350: Spartacus Blood and Sand Mafia Day 2

[Messiah]

Messiah, you mention a wagon on Pine, but say nothing after 10C about him. After thinking he was "this awful," why did you ignore him. As of now, what is your read on him?

FYI, I have Pine meta from NY 152 (4-4-8 Nightless, Pine was town, I was Red Scum). Lots of people found him as scum until he was lynched D12.

Page 10 contained his last post. I didn't ignore him, he flaked. MattP is in his slot and seems incredibly townie to me.

[D3f3nd3r]

Fail...

I suck.

[ActionDan]

Post tomorrow. But you guys can chew on this in the mean time.

I was shot last night

Combined with the Inte kill, when ~half the thread was eyeing him uneasily, I'm pretty sure Inte was a vig shot, and highly doubt any vig shot me over other targets, but if anyone is willing to come forward claiming the shot on me, now is the chance, otherwise I'm assuming it was a scum shot.

[Apple Jack]

how do you know you were shot? I have never ever seen a game on mafiascum where a person is told they were shot and lived to tell about it. (not that I could recall anyway)

that being said, in the back of my mind I wondered if this would be a 2 mafia setup based on the name, but when there was only 1 kill last night I assumed I was wrong.

[havingfitz]

There was no need for PerV to claim so I am of the opinion he is telling the truth. That, plus iirc (it's hard to say with that long a gap between yesterday's lynch and D2 starting!!!!)....I had a townish lean towards PerV yesterday as well.

mafia-noob...what reason did PerVscum have to claim anything?

Messiah...I look forward to you substantiating your non-concrete dislike of me.

@MattP....what looks like confirmation bias?

@Derpy...what do you mean when you tell PerV "it makes sense if you wanted to prevent the power to be used?" What makes sense?

@Derpy in Post 644...funny you giving MattP crap for his "case" on Gunny calling it "gut and meta" when that is basically your "case" on me (from D1). Followed by a vote on me fooooooooor what? NK speculation sheeping of inte? Nice. I'm sure compounded by your D1 suspicions of me. BTW...since inte's death and suspicions seem to carry weight with you...what about his suspicions of noob, you and Pine/MattP?

Messiah....how can you state there were at least two scum on Phil's wagon as if it were fact when we don't even know if there are more than two scum in the game? Don't the odds favor a two person scum team?

@MattP...how the hell did PerV's claim look "emotionally charged?" And while I'm leaning town on PerV...though I do agree that while his claim had no town motivation.

That's me caught up.

As for my vote's today...the main reason I voted D3f yesterday was because his was the most viable wagon that wasn't mine. I did suspect him to a degree and his play today has been more of the same (ie rubbish) but I got a town feel from him towards the end of the day. He seems like more of a Vi lynch than a scummy lynch. Don't care for D3f, drmy or PerV at this time as vote options.

Action Dan has been a bit of a ? mark for me this game. Looking back at his post 511 after MattP (iirc) made a big deal about it allowed me to notice a bit of a discrepancy in that Action was unsure of me and fine with keeping me around until D2 (how magnanimous of you ) but then he {Action} prompts D3f to vote for me.

VOTE: 1 ActionDan (until we know more about his claim at least) VOTE: 2 Derpy for his continued push on town (moi) for crap reasoning

[MattP]

Vote1: Code_X

Pietros was my lover (not the mafia definition, but the gladiator one).

We were neighbors to me, masons to him.

Together we had power, now we have none.

Vote2: Defender

For killing my lover and being scum.

Bolded reads emotional to me.

You've got to be kidding. You're in way too deep to make pseudo-useful comments like this and have anyone fall for it.

Here Messiah is just trying to find reasons to confirm his scumread on d3f.

[Messiah]

Messiah....how can you state there were at least two scum on Phil's wagon as if it were fact when we don't even know if there are more than two scum in the game? Don't the odds favor a two person scum team?

A 2:11 setup? No, the odds don't favor that at all. It's

possible

, but we should definitely work on the assumption that it's 3:10 until we have any evidence to the contrary. Minis almost always have a three person scum team, you should know that. As for the two scum being on Phil's wagon, it's a reasonable assumption to make in an attempt to help with scum hunting in light of the small amount of information we currently have. If strong evidence comes out against that theory don't expect me to ignore it(the evidence) or anything like that.

[PeregrineV]

Back later.

[Apple Jack]

@Fitz -

@Derpy...what do you mean when you tell PerV "it makes sense if you wanted to prevent the power to be used?" What makes sense?

I guess i didn't type that clearly, I am doubting his claim that he is town WITH Inte since my expereience with neighbors (especially ones where they have a joint ability, is that there is usually one scum) So what I meant when I said it made sense, is if peregine is actually scum and his group killed Inte to prevent the use of the action

@Derpy in Post 644...funny you giving MattP crap for his "case" on Gunny calling it "gut and meta" when that is basically your "case" on me (from D1). Followed by a vote on me fooooooooor what? NK speculation sheeping of inte? Nice. I'm sure compounded by your D1 suspicions of me. BTW...since inte's death and suspicions seem to carry weight with you...what about his suspicions of noob, you and Pine/MattP?

my case on you is certainly different because I was first suspicious of you THIS GAME because you were lurking and not scum hunting. You backed off your vote on mafia-n00b for no damn reason and iirc, you still have not explained why you backed off. (this all is perfectly valid reasons alone)

AFTER THIS - I thought to myself "hmm, I have played a game where I saw fitz as town and he didn't do the same things that he is doing here, so I think his meta supports my scum read on him"


in my opinion of Matt's case he came in out of the gate and gunned for shotty because of who he is AND because he doesn't believe the miller claim.

I am sure you are too narrowminded to see the difference but YOUR play THIS game is why I thought you were scum.

I guess you can call it NK speculation, I personally use it as way to compare my reads with a confirmed townie. Inte thought you were scum and his reads are the same as mine. And did we forget the new aspect to my case on you? The accidental hammer... I have only ever accidental hammers come from from scum (once I saw it done by Diety Kabuto as town, but he is a troll) and since you aren't a troll like DK it's yet another reason to suspect you, especially since Phil flipped town.

it is way to easy for scum to say "oops i had no idea" to take some suspicion off you, but I am not buying it. Your accidental hammer is inexcusable.

out of everyone in the game, you are the most visible scummy person to me, if you are actually town well I guess i will apologize post game but I can't see town motivation behind your play. The fact that you continue to vote me just because I am voting you doesn't make me want to change my vote either...


@ Fitz this question you directed at Messaih

how can you state there were at least two scum on Phil's wagon as if it were fact when we don't even know if there are more than two scum in the game? Don't the odds favor a two person scum team?

if you were a n00b, I could actually expect someone to ask this question, but considering you aren't AND the fact that you have actually modded a 13 player game that had a 3 man mafia team AND an SK

not to mention I have just checked

EVERY SINGLE mini theme game you have played and not a single game had 2 scum,

every game had at least 3 mafia and there was at least 2 or 3 where there was 3 scum AND a SK. so now you want us to think that this game only has 2 scum?

ROFL HA HA HA HA OMG YOU ARE SO SCUM because there is no way you as town would be so fucking naive to think there are only 2 scum when ALL OF YOUR EXPERIENCES ON SITE have had a minimum of 3.

god please lynch havingfitz now?



now, I really have issues with Dan's claim so i am waiting for him to explain it better but we are definitely lynching fitz today.

[havingfitz]

Re: Messiah's VCA...without knowing what D3f's alignment is, what does it matter who was on his wagon (or both wagons for that matter)?

Here's a slightly less "worthless" VCA FMPOV based on two wagons on town. And the FMPOV means I get to be green....so deal with it.

Phillamon

:

havingfitz

, ActionDan, drmyshotgun, Code_X (NPIAU), Matias (Messiah), D3f3nd3r,

inte

havingfitz

: Matias (Messiah), Derpy, D3f3nd3r

So FMPOV, there are two players who supported Phillamon's mislynch and were supporting mine: Matias (Messiah) and D3f3nd3r. At least one of these would be a good candidate as scum.

Now looking over Phillamon combined with D3f3nd3r from both the town and scum perspective for D3f3nd3r:

Phillamon

:

havingfitz

, ActionDan, drmyshotgun, Code_X (NPIAU), Matias (Messiah), D3f3nd3r,

inte

D3f3nd3r

:

havingfitz

, ActionDan, drmyshotgun, mafia-noob, whispersilk, MattP,

inte

Phillamon

:

havingfitz

, ActionDan, drmyshotgun, Code_X (NPIAU), Matias (Messiah), D3f3nd3r,

inte

D3f3nd3r

:

havingfitz

, ActionDan, drmyshotgun, mafia-noob, whispersilk, MattP,

inte

If D3f3nd3r is town then the two town wagons from D1 would point to a decent chance of scum within

havingfitz

, ActionDan and drmyshotgun based on them being on both wagons....or more specifically FMPOV, ActionDan and drmyshotgun.

If D3f3nd3r is scum then the wagons from D1 would point to a decent chance of scum within Code_X (NPIAU) and Matias (Messiah) as they were both on Phillamon's and off D3f3nd3r's D1 wagons. The only other player not on the D3f3nd3r D1 wagon who would warrant consideration if D3f3nd3r flipped scum would be PerV.

As I am leaning towards there only being 2 scum in this game I think it highly unlikely that there would be any bussing going on. translation....if D3f3nd3r were to flip scum it would go a long way in clearing those on his D1 wagon. Especially when there was a very viable alternative (at least in probablility of reaching lynch) in my wagon. I.e. scum had no need to bus and would have been unlikely to in a 2 person team.

So anyone who does think D3f3nd3r is scum (Derpy?) should be looking off the D3f3nd3r D1 wagon for their 2nd suspect.

I'd like to know more about Action's claim...but after looking these wagons over I think a D3f3nd3r flip would be a good thing. 1...if he's scum...great! We get rid of a scum and go a long way towards clearing several people. Or 2...if he's town, we get some more wagon analysis and clarity on possible suspects and we lose a non-productive ~Vi.

[havingfitz]

@Messiah (and all)...disregard the 2 scum comments. I thought we were in an 11 player game when I made it. Yes I assume 3...not 2.

WTF Derpy? Overreact much? And get over yourself with the "we're lynching fitz today" bs. When you have 6 votes to lay down or a case that has a shred of merit then you can talk your shit.

How about you reply to how if you think D3f is scum why I am as well.

[mafia-n00b]

UNVOTE: 1. PeregrineV for now.

Decent points raised about what his scum-motivation for claiming would be, and his responses so far don't feel too much like caught scum.

@havingfitz
You point out the dubiousness of VCA at this stage and then engage in it? While you're at it, what about the fact that I intended to hammer Phil?

VOTE: 1. drmyshotgun

Still don't like his play.

[Apple Jack]

why do you think there are only 2 scum this game when ALL OF YOUR PREVIOUS mini theme games have had a minimum of 3?

what makes this game different than all of those besides the special lynch mechanic?

have you EVER seen a 13P game with only 2 scum? I have only seen 1 and everyone at end game was like WTF only 2 SCUM? BECAUSE 2 SCUM IN a 13 P game MAKES NO SENSE. It's too town sided and mafia has no chance to win and no reviewer worth a damn would approve such a lopsided setup.

the only time I see 2 scum is in smaller games (aka newbie or smaller games like a 9P game)


p.edit -

1. i don't believe you thought we were in a 11P game - considering your expereince in playing mini-themes and none of them were 11P games

2. I have made a case, it has merit. (funny that yoo criticize my case when your vote on phil was one of the worst reasons in the game, not to mention the only vote you made this game that had a valid reason before you walk away from it with almost no reason why...)

3. why does me thinking defender is scum mean you aren't? Why can't you both be scum?

[ActionDan]

how do you know you were shot? I have never ever seen a game on mafiascum where a person is told they were shot and lived to tell about it. (not that I could recall anyway)

that being said, in the back of my mind I wondered if this would be a 2 mafia setup based on the name, but when there was only 1 kill last night I assumed I was wrong.

Um. I'm X-shot BP (obviously flavor is different from this wording). I was surprised too that the mod pm'd me a message that an attempt was made on my life, and that I lost a charge as a result. It's uncommon, but not rare, that BPs are told that they got shot. Considering this is limited reveal, such indulgences might be the Mod's way of giving back, so to speak.

There's also another reason I'm keeping hidden for the moment that would make it sensible to tell me, as otherwise the consequences could be severe to town

what are the problems you have with the claim?

As for my vote's today...the main reason I voted D3f yesterday was because his was the most viable wagon that wasn't mine. I did suspect him to a degree and his play today has been more of the same (ie rubbish) but I got a town feel from him towards the end of the day. He seems like more of a Vi lynch than a scummy lynch. Don't care for D3f, drmy or PerV at this time as vote options.

Action Dan has been a bit of a ? mark for me this game. Looking back at his post 511 after MattP (iirc) made a big deal about it allowed me to notice a bit of a discrepancy in that Action was unsure of me and fine with keeping me around until D2 (how magnanimous of you ) but then he {Action} prompts D3f to vote for me.

VOTE: 1 ActionDan (until we know more about his claim at least) VOTE: 2 Derpy for his continued push on town (moi) for crap reasoning

I prompted Def to vote for you because in theory it's correct play. If Def is town he should be voting his counter-wagon. What exactly did you think I was trying to accomplish?

I'll answer Messiah later when I get off from work. Then I can scum-hunt properly

[Apple Jack]

my case on you

1. lurking towards the beginning of the game and not scum hunting
2. promising content and failing to deliver (you claim you were on v/la yet you posted in the game during that time period and never indicated as such, which means I don't believe you)
3. abandoning a very valid vote on mafia-n00b for essentially no reason (not sure you ever did provide a reason, which means there is a possible fitz/n00b connection)
4. voting Phil for a very horrible reason, especially since you were guilty of the exact same things you were accusing him of and the fact that it was an hammer of him, which you claim was "accidental" and using VCA like you just tried to do, the odds are there was at least 1 scum on Phil's wagon so what better person to look at that the one who voted for a bad reason (which scum usually do) and you hammered without a claim and claimed it was an accident (which is hands down scummy, town would have paid closer attention and made sure they weren't going to hammer)
5. my interpretation of your game meta supports

all of these reasons add up to valid reasons to vote you.


now where is your case on me?

[Messiah]

While we're outlining cases, how about a drmyshotgun case from mafia-n00b?

[PeregrineV]

third - unless I missed it, I don't see where you explain why Code, Matias, and Defender are your scum reads. Can you please explain this?

Sure. Will do tomorrow. Kid stuff first.

In Post 374 I explained why all three. In 214 is detail on Matias case.

[Apple Jack]

third - unless I missed it, I don't see where you explain why Code, Matias, and Defender are your scum reads. Can you please explain this?

Sure. Will do tomorrow. Kid stuff first.

In Post 374 I explained why all three. In 214 is detail on Matias case.

ok I will look at this later.

I want to talk about fitz'z lulzy VCA.


fitz posts

Here's a slightly less "worthless" VCA FMPOV based on two wagons on town. And the FMPOV means I get to be green....so deal with it.

Phillamon

:

havingfitz

, ActionDan, drmyshotgun, Code_X (NPIAU), Matias (Messiah), D3f3nd3r,

inte

havingfitz

: Matias (Messiah), Derpy, D3f3nd3r

So FMPOV, there are two players who supported Phillamon's mislynch and were supporting mine: Matias (Messiah) and D3f3nd3r. At least one of these would be a good candidate as scum.

so by your own VCA, you say Matias and defender are good candidates for scum cause they are on both town wagons (assuming you are town of course) yet you vote me instead of them? This is YOUR reasoning, why are you not following it?

As I am leaning towards there only being 2 scum in this game I think it highly unlikely that there would be any bussing going on. translation....if D3f3nd3r were to flip scum it would go a long way in clearing those on his D1 wagon. Especially when there was a very viable alternative (at least in probablility of reaching lynch) in my wagon. I.e. scum had no need to bus and would have been unlikely to in a 2 person team.

I find it hard to believe you would take the time to do a VCA and not know this is a 13P setup.

But have you ever done a Day 2 VCA before in any of your games? (has anyone for that matter?) I know VCAs are useful later in the game as we are nearing lylo but can't recall ever seeing a D2 vca before, especially when it is used to try and clear yourself...

but since you have now indicated that you didn't know this was a 13P game (don't believe you) what say you now regarding the wagons and bussing? who could be bussing now?

So anyone who does think D3f3nd3r is scum (Derpy?) should be looking off the D3f3nd3r D1 wagon for their 2nd suspect

I realize you will of course rule out that you and he are scum together, because you are trying to convince people you are town, but it's still possible that you and he could both be scum depending on the setup. I mean just because you voted him to save yourself doesn't mean that it wasn't bussing.

Actually if I had to pick out of the 2 of you, my gut says you are more likely to flip scum over him but you both going into a duel would do WONDERS for a D3 VCA....

now on to Action Dan's claim.

I ran a game that got ate by tigers and in that game I am almost positive it had a BP townie - 2 shot. (or maybe I was thinking about it during setup either way I know I had this discussion with the reviewers.)

and I was told specifically I am not allowed to tell the BP townie if he was shot. Just like you are not allowed to tell someone a doctor saved you, or you were JK'd or RB'd, etc, etc. this is something not typically done on MS. (there may be an exception, but if it is than it is so rare.)

so I don't believe his claim but before I move my vote to him I have a couple of questions for you.

note this first question will be completely speculative but I am asking because he isn't the person I would suspect to be NK'd either.

1. why do you think you were targeted by mafia?
2. who do you think is scum on the Phil wagon?
3. who is your top 2 scum suspects right now?


thanks

[MattP]

ActionDan's claim sucks but he is staying alive.

If he is scum lying then he'll be caught as soon as we see there is only one kill a night

This is good because if there are two killers then AD will be confirmed as targeted which means we know his claim is correct, unless scum purposely didn't target anyone last night to stick to his claim

If there is only one NK then he will be caught immediately.

If there are two NKs but scum wants to frame AD by not killing then it's a win win because we can keep AD alive for several nights to circumvent a scum NK

[PeregrineV]

Hey PV has like no mention of dr ever and has him as a null read

This fits perfectly into my theory

----------------------

Peregrine you going to elaborate or sit there in silence?

Well, the interactions between the three of you. Matias bad posting, you liking it, and Defender following up with it.

[PeregrineV]

@PeregrineV:

If you believed there was a chance that Phil was a traitor, but knew that he considered the two of you masons, why would you give him a null read, when doing so could tip him off (assuming that he was a traitor)?

I don't understand this question.

I didn't tip him off that I thought he was a traitor. I straight up told him in the QT. He said no, he was town. We talked about how we could use the QT. Then the QT was closed.

[Messiah]

@PeregrineV - Do you really not have anything more substantial than that at this point? Could you at least analyze Matias' post for us so we know what scum tells you're picking out?

[PeregrineV]

Vote1: Code_X

Pietros was my lover (not the mafia definition, but the gladiator one).

We were neighbors to me, masons to him.

Together we had power, now we have none.

Vote2: Defender

For killing my lover and being scum.

Bolded reads emotional to me.

Just a brief pause to point out that calling posts emotional generally means emotion from the player, not the theme character that is your role in the game.
For the record, I am not really Barca, the Beast of Carthage, and I've never had a relationship, homosexual or otherwise, with Pietros.
But my character is/was, and would be upset over his death.
Back to your regularly scheduled mafia game.

[PeregrineV]

@Fitz -

@Derpy...what do you mean when you tell PerV "it makes sense if you wanted to prevent the power to be used?" What makes sense?

I guess i didn't type that clearly, I am doubting his claim that he is town WITH Inte since my expereience with neighbors (especially ones where they have a joint ability, is that there is usually one scum) So what I meant when I said it made sense, is if peregine is actually scum and his group killed Inte to prevent the use of the action.

Just to clear up apparent confusion.
I was neighbor-masons with Pietros (Phillamon), not Spartacus (inte).

[havingfitz]

Action's claim sounds plausible to me and I can't see scum being given a BP ability that let's them know they have been targetted.

UNVOTE: 1 ActionDan

VOTE: 1 D3f3nd3r for reasoning provided in my previous post.

@Derpy...you apparently believe what you want to believe. It's a very annoying aspect of your game/~scumhunting. Not everyone is you (thank gawd) and to use your imagination or mental telepathy skills as a basis for coming to conclusions is assinine.

As for your Post 687 points:

1. Ummm....I have completed a mini theme with 11 players (that had 2 scum) and I am in an ongoing game with 11 players in it. So STFU.

2. To be addressed later.

3. Seriously? Assuming we were both scum...why would I bus my partner placing him at 4 votes when I could have just as easily put him in a 3 vote tie with Code? Which D3f3nd3r could have easily brought to 4 votes if necessary. If D3f3nd3r and I are the same alignment it's town.

I'll address your case points later. Until then...other than the two games we have going on at the moment are you aware of any games we have played in together other than games I have played with Beck?

@Action...it seemed contradictory to me when you were on the one hand uncertain enough about me to stop voting me only to encourage the person you eventually voted to put a vote on me. Whether it was he "right move" or not for him...your encouragement of it didn't make sense IMO.