Judge, Jury, and Executioner - Over

[Sir Bastion]

A lot of people seemed to have ducked out after the thor/arugala hammers.

I would be suspect of Hippo and v2v needing prods already, except neither of them were on the thor wagon and arugala hasnt done anything to improve his image (in fact some of his post hammer posts are pretty dreadful)

But where's Quilford?

I had questions needing answering and I'd also like to hear how he feels about thor now.

[Nocmen]

I don't get the run up on DoomYoshi. Reading him back he followed Ser Panda a bit, and maybe fixated on Thor a bit, but that was about it. He's

hardly

the most scummy person out there.

Meanwhile, TheShadow is doing everything he possibly can to save his own ass, voting for

anyone

else, while still contributing precisely nothing to the thread. The votes on DoomYoshi (the post after saying he'd hammer himself) are god-awful. I am stunned so many people appear willing to let him slide based on nothing more than an unprovable and easily fakeable role-claim. Seriously:

This, Shadow is so scummy anymore and I wish I could drop a third vote on him.

Doom is a bit, but I like a few more candidates over him anyways who I'd rather see lynched first. I'm reminded a lot of my own play style through the posts.

[TheShadow]

Eh, screw it.

UNVOTE: DoomYoshi
UNVOTE: DoomYoshi

Thor is town.
Arugula is scum.

I'm town but not enough people believe it.

VOTE: TheShadow
VOTE: TheShadow

[Mastermind of Sin]

wtf shadow...we only need 2 more votes for ScumYoshi...he's the leading wagon and not even making an attempt to defend himself because he knows he's been caught. Get your votes back before some hopeless idiot (or scum) decides your self-vote is a scum claim and hammers.

[TheShadow]

Agreed. Just trying to prove a point.

UNVOTE: TheShadow
UNVOTE: TheShadow

VOTE: DoomYoshi
VOTE: DoomYoshi

[Thor665]

All you prove by self voting is the point that, even if you are town, now you need to die before we get to lylo.
That will work out perfectly though, because odds are your power will become useless before then too - so we can both be happy.

[TheShadow]

All you prove by self voting is the point that, even if you are town, now you need to die before we get to lylo.
That will work out perfectly though, because odds are your power will become useless before then too - so we can both be happy.

Exactly. The point was to draw out a quickhammer, but that didn't happen.

My votes will stay where they are now..

[Thor665]

If the point was to draw out a quickhammer you messed it up by;

1. Only giving them about 10 minutes of a window to do it in...call it a hunch, but not too many players here saw the window while it was open.
2. Now discussing it removing any chance it ever would have had to work if you tried it again, even thinking it would work considering what went down with Arugula and half the ruddy people on the last flash wagon in this game.

So...yeah, after this maybe go get into a newbie with me as the IC and we'll get you remedial lessons.
Unless you're scum - in which case...actually, do the same, because town or scum your play is not optimal for your team.
In highly related news you still need death prior to lylo.
But I don't think you're the best wagon today, too much of the case is based on you being a derp and not enough is based on you being scummy - and we already have the information of who would lynch you now, so we don't need the flip at this moment.

[Thor665]

I would also like to say, Thor should be earning some type of RUDDY SAINTHOOD for how relaxed I'm treating some of the play this game.
Dear gawd, I can't even tell if I should be feeling sorry for the town or the scum team yet.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

AV is semi out. I'll catch up tomorrow.

~P

[vijay2vasandani]

Don't replace meeeee. Sorry busy with visa issues. But as of where I was (page 5 XD), Thor, Arugula and SB are good defendants. This should be sorted by tonight, will post by tomorrow.

[Thor665]

That was kind of eerie synchronicity.

I say that with the full awareness that it isn't a scumtell and that they must have been prodded at some point prior to this.
It's just eerie as Smurf.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Hell of a coincidence, haha

[Mastermind of Sin]

BTW, I'm V/LA Friday through Monday.

[Ser Panda]

What am I failing to address?

that I believed thor was lining up lynches and expecting a ser bastion town flip.

but anyway thats old news. I'm just getting bored talking to you.

[Ser Panda]

KoC

Whats wrong?

why are you people letting this guy slide?

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Okay so it's been a fucken age since I last read this game and I see that we derp hammered Thor and win hammered Arugula.

RE: Thor, that's the sort of case I would use to get my knickers in an uppity twist about and wagon full-steam on. And 9 times out of 10, those cases were on town. It's entirely possible to vote scum during RVS for the "lulz" (i.e. for the sake of wagonning). If voting someone for no reason other than to vote them was proScum, we'd never get out of RVS.

Okay so that's page 7. Only 11 more pages to go. BRB.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

^AV btw

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

No of course not.

But I'm curious that (and this is not just you) people putting multiple votes on someone on in rvs seemed odd, risky too.

Considering you've said little else so far I thought this might be a good starting point...

...Why wouldn't you put 2 votes at RVS? It's protown to build wagons to the point where RVS is left behind. And NEITHER of the two lynches were RVS accidents - there were cases there (even if they were wrong: see Thor). I don't like this post. It screams "trying to look concerned."

---

I buy theShadow's claim. It's a way to ensure scum can't just pick their buddies every night as Executioners. At it's best, where scum use the Execute as a substitute NK, this role acts like a Cop. If they don't, then happy days still, since we control the scum's only way to guarantee they control a kill each night, and the role still acts like a Tracker if targeted successfully. Since we can't know (independently) whether it's the former or the latter, any successful results should be treated like a track result, and players should have to justify why they Executed or otherwise. With this role in play, the idea of always executing should not be implemented, so that if a player who has expressed a townread on another player is caught executing them, they won't be able to fall back on that as an excuse.

TheShadow (7): Sir Bastion, DCLXVI, Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner, Nocmen, Axelrod
Sir Bastion (6): Thor665, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, DCLXVI, Gooner

And now to get the other scumread.

VOTE: Sir Bastion
VOTE: Sir Bastion

other scumread? or the one person you can vote in order to save your ass? You hadn't mentioned any scumread of bastion prior to those votes.

Duhr. This is a good point though <_>
Probably a mod-provided fakeclaim.

[There was once a Shadow vote here, but a whole new wagon has sprung up in pages I've not read. I won't put Shadow in the range of a hammer until I've looked at DarkYoshi]

---

I hammered Thor? Sorry, buddy. I should've been more careful with my vote.

And this is why I overreacted to Vijay's mod-confirmed scum statement. Now you guys hammered a townie because of it.

Kill this with extreme prejudice.

"Oh noes, I did done quickhammer a townie?!"
Why the fuck did you double vote him if you're sorry to see him hammered?

"Lookie you lynched me becaz Vijay sed I woz modconfirmed scumm!!"
NO. We lynched you because you reacted TERRIBLY to a BLATANTLY OBVIOUSLY RIDICULOUSLY FAKE COMMENT about you being MCS. You reacted in such a way because you are blatantly obviously ridiculously really scum.

---

Why would knowing who the executioner was be helpful to the town? Since it does not dictate alignment in anyway, town should 100% claim if they were the Executioner the previous night and take responsibility for their decision.

This a thousand times over.

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

DoomYoshi (9): guille2015, DCLXVI, Mastermind of Sin, Mastermind of Sin, StrangerCoug, Knight of Cydonia, TheShadow, TheShadow, DCLXVI

TheShadow (8): Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner, Nocmen, Axelrod, Nero Cain, Sir Bastion, Nocmen
Sir Bastion (5): Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, Gooner, Scott Brosius, DCLXVI
guille2015 (3): Scott Brosius, Scott Brosius, Nocmen
Quilford (3): Sir Bastion, Sir Bastion, Mastermind of Sin
vijay2vasandani (2): guille2015, Arugula
Ser Panda (2): StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug
Nocmen (1): Thor665
Nero Cain (1): whispersilk
DCLXVI (1): whispersilk
Knight of Cydonia (1): Thor665

5

votes are currently not on a player.

Arugula (11): Quilford, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, DoomYoshi, Ser Panda, Nero Cain, Nero Cain, TheShadow
Thor665 (11): Ser Panda, Ser Panda, Knight of Cydonia, Knight of Cydonia, Quilford, Quilford, DoomYoshi, DoomYoshi, whispersilk, Arugula, Arugula

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

22

of which are frozen, leaving

41

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

[Gooner]

I never said I found it scummy. I was just questioning it because it might lead to a scum doing something scummy.

As it is your position is now clear to me although I am still curious as to why it's better for him to claim later than it is for him to claim now.

You don't think it was scummy but it might lead to scum doing something scummy? What the, how does that work?

I may not want him to claim at all. Hence the maybe part. Call it fence sitting, whatever you like.

1. Yes. It's called questioning someone. It's how you play Mafia. You question people and you hope that the scum slip up somewhere along the line.

2. You have never stated that this has ever factored into your reasoning.

Your previous logic has always been:

He should definitely not claim now. Maybe later but certainly when he's about to be lynched

Then your sudden shift to include you may not want him to claim at all worries me.

Firstly it is fence sitting.

Secondly it shows that you're not really trying to think about what the best solution to the Judge claim is.

So, what is your position on the Judge claim? Should he or shouldn't he claim?

[Gooner]

I disagree. Why would we, on Day 1, eliminate what is potentially (for all we know) the only role that exists as a deterrent to all Executioners being scum?

Let me explain why:

If I were scum The Shadow's role would not put me off picking a scum Executioner. Not at all. It just wouldn't. The reward from picking a scum Executioner far outweighs the slim possibility that the Shadow will pick the Executioner.

[Mastermind of Sin]

And yet you still fail to acknowledge that the existence of TheShadow's role explains why the scum even need to choose in the first place.

[Ser Panda]

If Shadow is telling the truth, you know how stupid it was to claim the role and give the mafia knowledge of that role? Whereas before, they would've been most likely chosen one of their members as the Exe, now it is pretty much WIFOM.

What could've actually been a a bit of a useful role is rendered useless with the mafia knowing of it's existence.

[DoomYoshi]

I understand what you mean gooner, but a smart scum team can still get away with town based executioner. For instance, if they chose me as the ex and Arugula as my target, I would kill him for sure. So, if we mislynch, but don't regret the mislynch (for instance we are regretting Thor's lynch) then the Maf can try for an extra kill. Also, say ser panda was lynched. I don't think ser panda is scum, sofas executioner, I would probably let him live. This then creates doubt for both me and ser panda and could send town down a WIFOM road where both of us end up dying in any case. Which fully proves the point that perhaps the policy should be always kill.