Judge, Jury, and Executioner - Over

[Ser Panda]

And can someone explain to me why people prefer to lynch doomyoshi over KoC?

At least dommyoshi's taking responsibility for thor's lynch.

Feel free to show where I've tried to avoid responsibility for Thor's lynch any more than you, the person who started the lynch with pretty much the same reasoning as I had; as opposed to late wagonhoppers like Doom and Arugula

Whats your read on thor now?

[Gooner]

Hmmm.... MoS is starting to convince me.

I'll need to think about events so far and hopefully I'll come up with something.

[Gooner]

Although I still don't like that Shadow has disappeared when the pressure on him has disappeared.

Trying to fly under the radar once the threat of a lynch has disappeared?

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

DoomYoshi (9): guille2015, DCLXVI, Mastermind of Sin, Mastermind of Sin, StrangerCoug, Knight of Cydonia, TheShadow, TheShadow, DCLXVI

TheShadow (6): Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner, Axelrod, Nero Cain, Sir Bastion
Sir Bastion (5): Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, Gooner, Scott Brosius, DCLXVI
guille2015 (3): Scott Brosius, Scott Brosius, Nocmen
Quilford (3): Sir Bastion, Sir Bastion, Mastermind of Sin
Ser Panda (3): StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug, Nocmen
vijay2vasandani (2): guille2015, Arugula
Nocmen (1): Thor665
Nero Cain (1): whispersilk
DCLXVI (1): whispersilk
Knight of Cydonia (1): Thor665
Teleporting Speed Hippos (1): Nocmen

5

votes are currently not on a player.

Arugula (11): Quilford, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, DoomYoshi, Ser Panda, Nero Cain, Nero Cain, TheShadow
Thor665 (11): Ser Panda, Ser Panda, Knight of Cydonia, Knight of Cydonia, Quilford, Quilford, DoomYoshi, DoomYoshi, whispersilk, Arugula, Arugula

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

22

of which are frozen, leaving

41

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

whispersilk has been prodded.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Shadow's claim: I see it as a plausible role, albeit useless. Making it a pretty good fake claim

@DCL, why didn't you go after this line in the same way you went after mine?

---

Alright..
UNVOTE: SirBastion
UNVOTE: SirBastion

TheShadow fails to explain his double votes on SB, which - after the point raised earlier re: him latching on to the next-biggest wagon - is very scummy.

Put simply: I think TheShadow is scum with a fakeclaim.

Vote: TheShadow

---

Because I like where the conversation is going today and I am in no means ready for day to end yet.

And one more, in reply to Ser:

I can't really hammer Shadow when I already have two votes on him.

ATTENTION

These two posts show Nocmen giving

fake excuses

for his voting record.

Vote: Nocmen

Why hasn't this wagon happened yet?

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

DoomYoshi (9): guille2015, DCLXVI, Mastermind of Sin, Mastermind of Sin, StrangerCoug, Knight of Cydonia, TheShadow, TheShadow, DCLXVI

TheShadow (7): Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner, Axelrod, Nero Cain, Sir Bastion, Teleporting Speed Hippos
Sir Bastion (5): Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, Gooner, Scott Brosius, DCLXVI
guille2015 (3): Scott Brosius, Scott Brosius, Nocmen
Quilford (3): Sir Bastion, Sir Bastion, Mastermind of Sin
Ser Panda (3): StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug, Nocmen
vijay2vasandani (2): guille2015, Arugula
Nocmen (1): Thor665
Nero Cain (1): whispersilk
DCLXVI (1): whispersilk
Knight of Cydonia (1): Thor665
Teleporting Speed Hippos (1): Nocmen

5

votes are currently not on a player.

Arugula (11): Quilford, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, DoomYoshi, Ser Panda, Nero Cain, Nero Cain, TheShadow
Thor665 (11): Ser Panda, Ser Panda, Knight of Cydonia, Knight of Cydonia, Quilford, Quilford, DoomYoshi, DoomYoshi, whispersilk, Arugula, Arugula

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

22

of which are frozen, leaving

41

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

Vote: Nocmen

You only have three votes. Ignored.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

@MoS;

Don't you think that if you can't remember his posting it should be cause for concern?

Not really. I could say the same for you and about 10 other people in this thread.

That said, I just went back and looked at TheShadow's ISO. I think his claim is probably legit and I think it's hilariously stupid to want to lynch him Day 1 of all things.

Anyone who has read TheShadow's claim and thinks it's a good idea to kill him

today

is either scum or an idiot.

Take your pick.

The decision whether to lynch him or not should be based on his play, not his claim, since the claim could easily be faked. Like you, I believe the claim sounds legit. But his play has been so awful that I can only conclude it is a (mod-provided?) fakeclaim. Anyway, we can demand the executioner claims each night as WC suggested.

Okay I've seen enough.

VOTE: DoomYoshi
VOTE: DoomYoshi

FFFFFFUUUUUU-

@MoS, here is another example of Shadow's scummy play. Fine, it's on DY who you think is scum, but JUST LIKE his Bastion vote, it's latching onto the next-biggest wagon other than himself. Both of his votes have been self-preservationist and have not shown any degree of reasoning.

I haven't read his posts in depth, DCLXVI. I find absolutely no need to do so given the fact that his very role justifies the setup's existence and pulls it all together. What would be the point of having an Executioner who could never be identified be appointed by scum when you could just say that the scum get to execute/save a person of their choice and then send the other two to the judge and jury? The mere fact that the Executioner *could* be town justifies the existence of a role that forces the scum to think about whether they want to nominate one of their own to be Executioner. Otherwise it would be a no-brainer and the setup itself would be rather bland.

Hmm. But couldn't it be argued that "Execute" is simply the flavour for the scum's modified NK? I don't see why the opportunity to select town means that there has to be a role to pick up on potential false positives. The potential for town Executioners allows scum to WIFOM; if someone claims to be an Executioner, do we think they are town? Couldn't scum claim they were made Executioner for towncred? Couldn't scum make us lynch a claimed (town) Executioner because of those concerns? I don't think that the presence or otherwise of Shadow's role makes the Execute mechanic any more or less bland.

On page 18, going to make lunch.

PS @Mod:

Unvote: Shadow; Vote: Nocmen

Didn't realise it was necessary to unvote when we only have one vote active - sorry~

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

DoomYoshi (9): guille2015, DCLXVI, Mastermind of Sin, Mastermind of Sin, StrangerCoug, Knight of Cydonia, TheShadow, TheShadow, DCLXVI

TheShadow (6): Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner, Axelrod, Nero Cain, Sir Bastion
Sir Bastion (5): Teleporting Speed Hippos, vijay2vasandani, Gooner, Scott Brosius, DCLXVI
guille2015 (3): Scott Brosius, Scott Brosius, Nocmen
Quilford (3): Sir Bastion, Sir Bastion, Mastermind of Sin
Ser Panda (3): StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug, Nocmen
vijay2vasandani (2): guille2015, Arugula
Nocmen (2): Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos
Nero Cain (1): whispersilk
DCLXVI (1): whispersilk
Knight of Cydonia (1): Thor665
Teleporting Speed Hippos (1): Nocmen

4

votes are currently not on a player.

Arugula (11): Quilford, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, DoomYoshi, Ser Panda, Nero Cain, Nero Cain, TheShadow
Thor665 (11): Ser Panda, Ser Panda, Knight of Cydonia, Knight of Cydonia, Quilford, Quilford, DoomYoshi, DoomYoshi, whispersilk, Arugula, Arugula

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

22

of which are frozen, leaving

41

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Oh hey, I caught up to my first catch-up post. I'm not convinced that the DY wagon is the be all and end all. I'd much rather a Nocmen or Shadow lynch before that.

PS all of these have been AV.

@mod, is it possible to see who those 5 votes "that are currently not on a player" belong to? I know we could probably figure it out ourselves, but =3

[IceGuy]

@mod, is it possible to see who those 5 votes "that are currently not on a player" belong to? I know we could probably figure it out ourselves, but =3

It's actually just four votes: all three votes of WrathChild and one vote from guille2015.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

But TSH for believing in the gambit's results...is obviously brilliant fething obv. town.

Uh, Thor...

Because he obviously doesn't have it mod-confirmed that you are scum.

We lynched you because you reacted TERRIBLY to a BLATANTLY OBVIOUSLY RIDICULOUSLY FAKE COMMENT about you being MCS.

I agree with Arugoogaa being scum, but there's no way I agree with the sentiment of it being mod-confirmed.

---

@WrathChild; why no votes?

[Axelrod]

I am out of town for the next two weeks (vacation, Yay!) There will be some kind of internet where I am going, but posting will be more intermittent.

I'm still stunned Shadow is skating away free here. He is by almost any metric the scummiest poster. Yes, he has a plausible claim, sure, but it is also one which is easily fakable and also incredibly weak on top of that.

If not him, I don't even know who. I am not feeling DoomYoshi. I might favor just jumping on the lurkiest player (not named Shadow).

[Knight of Cydonia]

And can someone explain to me why people prefer to lynch doomyoshi over KoC?

At least dommyoshi's taking responsibility for thor's lynch.

Feel free to show where I've tried to avoid responsibility for Thor's lynch any more than you, the person who started the lynch with pretty much the same reasoning as I had; as opposed to late wagonhoppers like Doom and Arugula

Whats your read on thor now?

Stop changing the question. Show me where I have tried to avoid responsibility for Thor's lynch; or just, y'know, admit that you can't, because no such thing has happened.

[StrangerCoug]

if you had no knowledge of his playstyle.
would you still that wasn't circular logic?

Yes, in which case the "you outsmarted him" scenario would hold.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

I can get back on Shadow but Nocmen needs a serious look first.
~AV

[Thor665]

if you had no knowledge of his playstyle.
would you still that wasn't circular logic?

I'll also note that, besides *calling* it circular logic - you actually haven't shown me using circular logic.
Because I...y'know...didn't.

But TSH for believing in the gambit's results...is obviously brilliant fething obv. town.

Uh, Thor...
[snip]
I agree with Arugoogaa being scum, but there's no way I agree with the sentiment of it being mod-confirmed.

That's what I said (or at least meant).
The comment is that 'you believed in the results gleaned from the fairly obvious reaction test'
The guy belieiving in the reaction test is, in Arugula's mind - obv. fething town.
The guy performing the reaction test is obv. scum

There's a disconnect there unless Arugula wants me to believe that a certain player *did* believe he was mod confirmed scum, in which case...whut!?!

Make sense?

Also, thank you for a Nocmen vote.

[DoomYoshi]

I old like to post a grand post before I go to the cottage until Thursday. I don't really have much more to say though. I'm not sure what else I can do to not be the largest wagon.

Yes, I am focusing on a small player base, but I just try to sort through all the chaffosts and find some wheat posts to help in scumhunting.

KoC, the reason people are saying you aren't taking responsibility for Thor's lynch is because you are trying to lynch me based on my Thor case. You haven't explained why we shouldn't lynch you based on your Thor case. It really is starting to look like scum who is afraid to say too much in order to avoid slipping up. Your Thor case was one line, and your case on me was one lengthy joke.

TSH seems to be the best, most active scumhunter on this page, finding Nocmen is great material, but I am not as sold on his pushing of the shadow. Does ice guy usually give fakeclaims? This game doesn't seem like it would need one, since the mafia aren't going to be caught in the act.

[Thor665]

[TSH] finding Nocmen is great material

Hate you so much...

[DoomYoshi]

I know you had a vote there too, but I also was on Nocmen's case earlier. Not sure why you hate me for it, but I think TSH explained it in a good way.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Okay, MoS, given that you appear to be "clearing" Shadow based solely on this assumption, let me ask you a purely hypothetical question.

Hypothetically

, if there were another, and different role that had the ability to determine who the Executioner was in a given night, would this change your attitude about Shadow?

That would be tantamount to a counterclaim, so of course I'd reconsider to see who I'd believe at that point.

What reasons are you voting me for?

I don't buy that "Thor took set panda on a circular logic tour."

wow.

SC. wow.

Explain to me how you don't think that?

Because frankly you're looking pathetic to me right now.

you're using pathetic reasons to place your vote.

The fact that you actually think SC is wrong is what's really pathetic, Ser Panda. Stop being stupid and wise up. Thor didn't do anything scummy and you fucked up by being an idiot about it.

The decision whether to lynch him or not should be based on his play, not his claim, since the claim could easily be faked. Like you, I believe the claim sounds legit. But his play has been so awful that I can only conclude it is a (mod-provided?) fakeclaim. Anyway, we can demand the executioner claims each night as WC suggested.

I completely disagree. It's incredibly naive to think that claims should not be factored into the decision to lynch someone.

@MoS, here is another example of Shadow's scummy play. Fine, it's on DY who you think is scum, but JUST LIKE his Bastion vote, it's latching onto the next-biggest wagon other than himself. Both of his votes have been self-preservationist and have not shown any degree of reasoning.

Self-preservation is not a predominantly scum trait, it's actually relatively common for both alignments imo and really depends on the player. Shadow's voting pattern holds consistent with his claim timing as well, so I'm inclined to think that's part of his playstyle.

Hmm. But couldn't it be argued that "Execute" is simply the flavour for the scum's modified NK? I don't see why the opportunity to select town means that there has to be a role to pick up on potential false positives. The potential for town Executioners allows scum to WIFOM; if someone claims to be an Executioner, do we think they are town? Couldn't scum claim they were made Executioner for towncred? Couldn't scum make us lynch a claimed (town) Executioner because of those concerns? I don't think that the presence or otherwise of Shadow's role makes the Execute mechanic any more or less bland.

I don't see what you could possibly be trying to argue here. The executioner may be a replacement for the scum's NK (we won't know until the first night), but it's NOT an automatic kill. So I don't see at all why you're trying to claim that it's just flavor, when we CLEARLY know it's not.

Both judge and executioner can freely decide to convict or acquit

'nuff said.

[Nocmen]

Shadow's claim: I see it as a plausible role, albeit useless. Making it a pretty good fake claim

@DCL, why didn't you go after this line in the same way you went after mine?

---

Alright..
UNVOTE: SirBastion
UNVOTE: SirBastion

TheShadow fails to explain his double votes on SB, which - after the point raised earlier re: him latching on to the next-biggest wagon - is very scummy.

Put simply: I think TheShadow is scum with a fakeclaim.

Vote: TheShadow

---

Because I like where the conversation is going today and I am in no means ready for day to end yet.

And one more, in reply to Ser:

I can't really hammer Shadow when I already have two votes on him.

ATTENTION

These two posts show Nocmen giving

fake excuses

for his voting record.

Vote: Nocmen

Why hasn't this wagon happened yet?

And do those two "excuses" need to be mutually exclusive?

I know you had a vote there too, but I also was on Nocmen's case earlier. Not sure why you hate me for it, but I think TSH explained it in a good way.

Except it seems your reasons were different than mine - your criticism of me boiled down to me voting for people with few votes on them and not the major wagons.

[Arugula]

That's it?
UNVOTE: Vijay
VOTE: Nocmen

[Mastermind of Sin]

Arugula, why are you not voting ScumYoshi?

WrathChild, why do you have no votes placed currently?

[Sir Bastion]

I'm sorry but my VLA appears to be starting earlier then I planned (lots of things to do)

So I'm VLA til next monday evening (6th of august) sorry.


btw where do I get one of those lovely VLA stickers?

[Sir Bastion]

no matter I found it.