Judge, Jury, and Executioner - Over

[vijay2vasandani]

UNVOTE:

Okay, let's do this right.

Sorry for not posting, I've just started a new project and it's been a nightmare.

Just to clarify, we're killing both Arugula and Thor.

Reading Wraith's post about Shadow's role (because I missed it the first time) I believe it.

Any questions for me? I'm going back slowly and then I'll do magic stuffs.

[TheShadow]

I have said multiple times that I won't have much to contribute until Day 2 anyway cause of my style. If people don't like it, then just lynch me. While I am a (admittedly weak) PR, it's one town could live without if we have to.

Thor is town.
MoS is town.
KoC strikes me as town, though I do not like his twisting of my words in post 578

Arugula is still scummy, but I'm not as confident in that read now as I was when I hammered his wagon.

p-edit: Someone tell me why there isn't any pressure on v2v for lurking? post #600 was only his 5th all game. He's been lurking a lot worse than I.

[Thor665]

@Shadow - Because lurking isn't inherently scummy and as town who openly claims he lurks you should know this, so either stop being a hypocrite and stop attacking him or continue attacking him but become more active.
I'm game for either.

@v2v - Nocmen read, na0w!

[vijay2vasandani]

Awks because idk who he is. ISO timeeee. Pew pew.

[TheShadow]

@Thor: I agree that a claimed town PR should be more active than I have been. I promise that I will attempt to do so, once I get over the psychological hump that is my RL birthday on Wednesday.

[vijay2vasandani]

I didn't want to do this but tis rather interesting so I may as well point it out. Sorry if it has been raised.

Thanks for the opportunity thor, but I am tending towards belief with the shadow, based mainly on his claim, which I see as a realistic claim. Nocmen ignored my last response. Does that mean you are conceding the point?

No, I'm not going to place a hammer vote on someone just because it's that close to a lynch. How else will wagons start if someone doesn't place the first vote?

As for voting people I've placed no suspicon on...how is that different from you actions?

so at this point in time he admits he is voting people he has no suspicion, just like DoomYoshi. (shadow)

Nero, why are you afraid to hammer Shadow if you think he's scum, and what's a vote on Gullie gonna do, with only 1 lynch left?

Which head am I talking to? I wanna know which one is a moron.

I only have 1 vote left (since my first two are locked on Arg) I've

NEVER

voted Guille and I unvoted vijay a long long time ago.

Geez.. that was supposed to be Nocmen.

"Nocmen, why are you afraid to hammer Shadow if you think he's scum, and what's a vote on Gullie gonna do, with only 1 lynch left?"

Because I like where the conversation is going today and I am in no means ready for day to end yet.

But this on the other hand implies he actually suspects Shadow and only doesn't want to hammer because he likes where the conversation is headed.

And one more, in reply to Ser:

I can't really hammer Shadow when I already have two votes on him.

And I just put this in because if he was actually suspicious he'd know where his votes were.

I don't get the run up on DoomYoshi. Reading him back he followed Ser Panda a bit, and maybe fixated on Thor a bit, but that was about it. He's

hardly

the most scummy person out there.

Meanwhile, TheShadow is doing everything he possibly can to save his own ass, voting for

anyone

else, while still contributing precisely nothing to the thread. The votes on DoomYoshi (the post after saying he'd hammer himself) are god-awful. I am stunned so many people appear willing to let him slide based on nothing more than an unprovable and easily fakeable role-claim. Seriously:

This, Shadow is so scummy anymore and I wish I could drop a third vote on him.

Doom is a bit, but I like a few more candidates over him anyways who I'd rather see lynched first. I'm reminded a lot of my own play style through the posts.

And this post is just a continuation of that.

So yes Thor, I'd put him at scummy.

VOTE: Nocmen

Will read Shadow, Doom and Bastion next.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

@MoS, I'm trying to argue that if scum have no other NK then the Execute is

like

their NK ability (I should have said that the first time; I can see why it wouldn't be mere "flavour")

Nocmen case is that he said he wasn't voting Shadow because he didn't want the day to end. But then it turns out that wasn't true because he couldn't vote him anyway, due to already having 2 votes there.

I.e. he was making up a reason to cover his lack of hammer when there was no reason there. He's trying to be too smart by appealing to protown "allow the conversation to flow", whilst really he just doesn't want to hammer (a buddy? a town PR? --> the lack of hammer is null). If the real reason was because he had two votes placed, then he wouldn't have had to make up the stuff about not wanting the day to end.

He later goes on to say he'd put a third vote there if he could - what happened to wanting conversation?

Nope.jpg - it was all hot air after all.

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

DoomYoshi (8): guille2015, DCLXVI, Mastermind of Sin, Mastermind of Sin, StrangerCoug, TheShadow, TheShadow, DCLXVI

TheShadow (6): Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner, Axelrod, Nero Cain, Sir Bastion
Nocmen (5): Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Arugula, Knight of Cydonia, vijay2vasandani
Sir Bastion (4): Teleporting Speed Hippos, Gooner, Scott Brosius, DCLXVI
guille2015 (4): Scott Brosius, Scott Brosius, Nocmen, Nocmen
Quilford (3): Sir Bastion, Sir Bastion, Mastermind of Sin
Ser Panda (2): StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug
vijay2vasandani (1): guille2015
Nero Cain (1): whispersilk
DCLXVI (1): whispersilk
Knight of Cydonia (1): Thor665
Teleporting Speed Hippos (1): Nocmen

4

votes are currently not on a player.

Arugula (11): Quilford, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani, Thor665, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, DoomYoshi, Ser Panda, Nero Cain, Nero Cain, TheShadow
Thor665 (11): Ser Panda, Ser Panda, Knight of Cydonia, Knight of Cydonia, Quilford, Quilford, DoomYoshi, DoomYoshi, whispersilk, Arugula, WrathChild

Every player has

3

votes.
With

21

alive, it's

11

to hammer.
There are

63

votes in play,

22

of which are frozen, leaving

41

votes active.

Deadline is August 11th, 3 a.m. CEST.

[DoomYoshi]

Sigh. Read up to here. I see I am still the main wagon, but a Nocmen lynch is gaining steam. Glad to see v2v is back.

The shadow doesn't seem like he is a very strong player. I know a good player on my home site who likes to lurk until day 3 so that nobody kills him in the meantime and he can be alive near the end when it matters (and there is more info). I am not so sure shadow has the same day 3 and beyond quality. Even if he makes the decision totally randomly, and plays awful as many expect, I wouldn't support lynching someone who I think has a town PR. Even if some players do, he is unlikely to be killed overnight, so it would prob be a wasted lynch. The suicide and BWing me seems like badtown, not scum.

Thor, just because I am voting arugula doesn't clear me - I never read who my scum mates are until N1 if I get a scum role.

DCL, you have one vote on me for a shitty case I made today and another because you like the wagon.
TheShadow is voting me for self-preservation purposes.
MoS is voting me for making a shitty case (a second one).
Not quite sure why SC or Guille are voting for me - Guille in particular is hardcore lurking though.

Speaking of lurkers, where the fuck is quilford? He is the only absent member of the high five club.

[IceGuy]

Quilford has been prodded.

Replacing whispersilk.

[guille2015]

Finally got some time to get some ISOs in. I apologize for my lack of contribution this day. It will improve for certain. The other games have received a slightly larger priority than this one, and as I read today's day, I don't see much that has caught my eye. My best chance of getting something in is to ISO, and that is basically a hassle. Here goes though.

There are questions in the notes, go ahead and answer if you are inclined to.

Nocmen

:
#155: I don't see why you think TSH and Ser Panda are ObvTown. I think it's to early and to dangerous to think like that.
#291: On shadows claim, that seems to be the consensus. This seems like fence sitting. "guille seems trying a bit too hard to make Shadow's claim not useless." Because it's not useless. I was among the first to mention this, and the sentiment has been echoed by others afterwards.
#330: Clearly you want to hammer Shadow. But you said you wanted the day to carry on. Actually, I think you want to make a point with this, and not actually lay your intent to hammer.
#467: Did your opinion change on Shadow? Can you elaborate?
#521: I agree with you here, this doesn't look like fence sitting to me.
#592: That is true, and I have to apologize. However, I have contributed early on, just slacked of in the last 5 days or so. It will improve. Now, why does #120 make Gooner town? I don't see it. V2V lurking, well, he's not the only one.
That's all there is to Nocmen.

DoomYoshi

: One of my votes is on him. At first it was a RVS, reading through, made me think that I should keep it there. I owe him a read to value if I should keep it there.
#80: Good, I sorta agree. I don't think this is evident in my posts, but I now believe that the Judge should not claim. I am currently wondering if he should claim when close to lynch, or as a defendant, or not at all.
#300: What is your opinion on Thor?
#608: Fluff on the shadow. Good on the rest of this post though, need to check if they do have valid reasons for voting for you.
The rest is hard to follow on an ISO. It's mostly defensive posting giving how close to a Lynch you are. Your mayor contribution has been thinking that Thor is at fault for the RVS thing with Ser Panda. You are defending your position of why you had votes on Thor. The main question is what is your current position?
My vote stays.

V2V

: My other Vote.
#51: Why all this mod confirmed thing? I thought it was a joke.
#605: "

so at this point in time he admits he is voting people he has no suspicion

" this is a Strawman. Later you are grasping at nothing really. Nocman's comments are consistent with his actions and you say they are not. I disagree.
Since you don't have much, I don't have much. Your worst post, IMO, is the last one, and that's pretty much the only one you are contributing. I would like to hear what your opinions are of Shadow, Bastion and Doom. You should probably include me there too.
My Vote stays, for all the good it would do.

Nero Cain

:
#142: I am in agreement with this post.
Although I disagree with your position on Shadow, I have nothing on you. You are leaning town to me. Your ISO has motivated me into reading Gooner and Wrathchild.

Will continue after lunch.

[Axelrod]

Posting from the Beach!

I've been having a debate with myself about whether I should say anything about my role this game day, but ultimately I think it's more beneficial to throw it out there now

I have an ability that can, under certain circumstances, identify who was appointed to be the Executioner in a given night. My role is NOT, I repeat, NOT, the same as what Shadow claimed. It works differently. How I am not saying because I want the scum to always be uncertain whether they are at risk or not.

I would say that it is not impossible for Shadow's role to exist in addition to my role in this game. But I also still believe it is very possible Shadow has completely made his role up, or got given it as some kind of "safe" claim. His play thusfar is what's led me to vote him, and I've still seen nothing that would make me want to unvote. So there's that.

Other than Shadow, I'm probably slightly more interested in Nocmen than the other people who have votes. The way he unvoted Shadow like he had initially misread Shadow's ability was off. I need to re-read him.

KoC's extremely hostile attitude is bugging me, though I get that he is going through some tough real life stuff right now.

Finally, for great hypocrisy:

Someone tell me why there isn't any pressure on v2v for lurking?

[StrangerCoug]

You have a role like TheShadow's... but you think his role and yours can co-exist... *brain fries*

UNVOTE: DoomYoshi
UNVOTE: Ser Panda
UNVOTE: Ser Panda

I need time to think about the claim and its circumstances.

[Mastermind of Sin]

You have a role like TheShadow's... but you think his role and yours can co-exist... *brain fries*

UNVOTE: DoomYoshi
UNVOTE: Ser Panda
UNVOTE: Ser Panda

I need time to think about the claim and its circumstances.

This. I'm incredibly leery about a claim that essentially counterclaims Shadow but also tries to couch itself so that if he dies and comes up town we don't automatically revenge lynch it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

The shadow doesn't seem like he is a very strong player. I know a good player on my home site who likes to lurk until day 3 so that nobody kills him in the meantime and he can be alive near the end when it matters (and there is more info). I am not so sure shadow has the same day 3 and beyond quality. Even if he makes the decision totally randomly, and plays awful as many expect, I wouldn't support lynching someone who I think has a town PR. Even if some players do, he is unlikely to be killed overnight, so it would prob be a wasted lynch. The suicide and BWing me seems like badtown, not scum.

All of this is 100% correct and is why I don't give any credence to the people who actually think TheShadow's play itself is scummy. It's also thoughtful enough to make me rethink my DoomYoshi vote.

Unvote: DoomYoshi, Vote: Quilford

(joining my third vote and he still needs to stop lurking and contribute)

Unvote: DoomYoshi, Vote: Nocmen

(counterwagoning against TheShadow's wagon)

[StrangerCoug]

You have a role like TheShadow's... but you think his role and yours can co-exist... *brain fries*

UNVOTE: DoomYoshi
UNVOTE: Ser Panda
UNVOTE: Ser Panda

I need time to think about the claim and its circumstances.

This. I'm incredibly leery about a claim that essentially counterclaims Shadow but also tries to couch itself so that if he dies and comes up town we don't automatically revenge lynch it.

...Yeah. I'm thinking

ONE

of them is scum, but the problem I'm having right now is which one. Why counterclaim TheShadow under practically no pressure?

[Arugula]

Oh I have another vote?
VOTE: Nocmen

[Knight of Cydonia]

KoC's extremely hostile attitude is bugging me, though I get that he is going through some tough real life stuff right now.

I feel like you haven't read my last few posts. And should probably do that.

[StrangerCoug]

As of right now, I'm suspicious of Axelrod giving himself a cushion in case TheShadow dies and turns up town, so I believe the latter over the former at this point.

VOTE: Axelrod
VOTE: Axelrod

[Knight of Cydonia]

...Okay.

I'm willing to bet at least one of Axel and TheShadow is scum with a smart fakeclaim following that post. The fact that Shadow's claim came under an (entirely justified) amount of pressure and is (as I've previously noted) extremely unviable until lategame makes me think that it could easily be a hastily brought together claim; but the fact that Axel's claim basically deals with all the issues I have with Shadow's role whilst giving himself a get out of jail free card also makes me leery; but the fact it came under no pressure and Axel's lack of posting makes me think it might be a PR who has re-read, noticed Shadow's claim and thought "hey... that ain't right."

@Axel: am I right in assuming that your role action would basically be to PM IceGuy with "Was Player X the Executioner on Night Y"?

[Mastermind of Sin]

KoC, Axel was explicitly saying his role does NOT work like that...

[Thor665]

@MoS - actually - no, it isn't.

Indifferent on KoC's question.

Let's speed wagon Nocmen for lulz and debate the PR stuff tomorrow, that sounds awesome!

[Mastermind of Sin]

@MoS - actually - no, it isn't.

Huh?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I have an ability that can, under certain circumstances, identify who was appointed to be the Executioner in a given night. My role is NOT, I repeat, NOT, the same as what Shadow claimed.

Unless these "certain circumstances" are a really odd limitation on how/when he can identify who was Executioner on a given night, then I don't see how he "explicitly stated" what I asked to not be the case, MoS.
It seems like Shadow's roleclaim is "is Player X the Executioner tonight" and Axel's claim is... well, I thought it might be "was Player X the Executioner on Night Y" but given that "certain circumstances" qualifier it might be something else. I dunno, hence asking Axel the question to try and clear it up. Ain't gonna learn anything about it otherwise.

[TheShadow]

As of right now, I'm suspicious of Axelrod giving himself a cushion in case TheShadow dies and turns up town, so I believe the latter over the former at this point.

VOTE: Axelrod
VOTE: Axelrod

This.
UNVOTE: DoomYoshi
UNVOTE: DoomYoshi

VOTE: Axelrod
VOTE: Axelrod