Open 428 - Double Day Unlimited

[CryMeARiver]

@Voidedmafia: Why are you voting me? Have I done you any harm?

Not. The goddamn. Point.

You aren't doing anything. You haven't said anything. The only reason you aren't dead is because Loran was an stupid asshole that needed to die and Shadow happened to get into the chair before you did. You have provided NOTHING to this game. NOTHING.

Begin to prove otherwise, or gtfo. Practically every single lynch available fmpov except Absta is essentially on the basis of "no content and/or variying negative degrees of lurkiness", and it's fucking annoying.

This is good reasoning for a D1 mislynch. But for what is essentially a D3 lynch, you should be looking for scumtells. Not another mislynch to drive the town into.

[CryMeARiver]

GNR: That works. You're off the lynch pool for now.

Here we go...

PM

ISO is full of AtE and trying to show proof of being town. I didn't notice anything that tried to pin someone as being scum (except for post below) and has been active enough to try

ok. Um, works. If TheShadow is town, Absta is obv scum.

VOTE: TheShadow

This post was made near the end of Day 1, and day 2 started, no vote on "obvscum Absta" @Whiskers, what made you change your mind?

CMR

I liked CMRs opening post, but there hasn't been enough game content in the rest to pull any useful information out of

Venrob

His posts make me confused. His posts seem genuine, but something about them seems off. I'd have to go back and spend some time to analyze it better.

Absta

Very town, imo. All his posts are actively involved in the game, trying to figure out scum is.

Voided

Again, very town. Pretty much the town leader at this point. Posts are activiley scum hunting and trying to get others involved in the discussion.

So, in other words,

PM
Ven/CMR
Absta
Voided

That would be my prefferred order to investigate further and then lynch. I don't know who is scummier between ven and CMR, I need more time to decided between those two.

VOTE:PMysterious

You call these reads? This is the most half-hearted bullshit I have ever seen and I could have told you all of this after spending 2 minutes looking at the game. He has developed no scumtells or anything. Everyone is just hopping on PM because he doesn't know how to play this game it seems like, but I haven't seen any scumtells from him. In fact, only town tells. The only reason Voided is okay with GNR's post is because he a) Refers to Voided as the most town and b) Hops on his mislynch wagon. I don't see this as GNRscum as much as Voided scum.

As long as absta isn't pulling an epic bus with Voided right now (and if he is, he deserves to win because I got stuck with like 6 mislynches of a town), Ven-Voided is the scumteam I am pretty sure.

Vote: Voided

[absta101]

VOTE: CMAR

[CryMeARiver]

VOTE: CMAR

Be a dear and explain what of my posts you do not like. Then tell me what of what I posted deserves a vote.

[Voidedmafia]

Loran deserved the rope. While hindsight is 20-20 and there are some signals that might show a TownLoran, the guy was so screwed up in his posting ways it was ridiculous. Hell, even if I had perhaps believed the guy was town, I still would have lynched him just based on his awful awful play.

He attacked things like Voided's way of posting (which actually makes much more sense than Loran's) and he entered the game saying he was town because he had a bored reaction compared to PM who seemed excited to play the game which must mean he got a scum PM. These kinds of things are just bad play and certainly lynchable. Though I suppose there may have been a few town signs like him hinting towards town PRs in the setup, whereas scum would know the setup for sure, and what Voided put aside as AtE (which really wasn't as I don't think he was trying to convince you he was town with that statement, it was really just a *sigh, again?* comment*) seemed to be tired VT. And, the fact that he was actually trying (though badly) and getting into an early fight with Voided (which I feel scum would avoid), sort of hint towards town. However, the bad play...hell the scummy play...outweighed the town signs for sure and I also would have been on that bandwagon.

I suppose that, looking back with a more "neutral" standpoint (though I don't think I'll ever be able to look at him without some kind of negative light), the town things you've pointed out make sense. I highly doubt I would've been able to see it at the time, though, that's true.

Venrob is actual scum. Like I would bet my head that this guy is 100% mafia.

How so?

I really don't think PM is scum at all. Lack of caring for the game, plus his early play practically begging the town to keep him alive, plus the way his claim happened as if claiming Vanilla Townie would clear him meaning he doesn't have a firm grasp of the setup, all hints towards bad play as town. And I understand this as a mislynch, kind of similar to the Loran situation above, but we really can't afford anymore mislynches. We got stuck with 3 bad playing town, but we can't lynch them all.

His complete lack (or rather, complete inability) to do anything OTHER than AtE in almost every single post he makes effectively cuts out any pluses he may have gotten from the townpoints you're giving him. If he was at least being somewhat active in regards to scumhunting and the AtE was severely cut down I may very well agree with you, but as it stands I see him as nothing other than a liability that needs to be removed in the near future.

Absta appears to be town to me. The way he came in, tried to slow down the Loran lynch (he kind of hit on the town signals I posted above) to explore, and also placed votes on the powerful town-appearing players of Voided and Whiskers, does not feel like scum in the least to me.

Do you know that while Absta did try to slow the Loran lynch he was practically incognito and didn't really slow it down at all? And that he seriously delayed answering both Whisky's and my requests to respond to our replies while at the same time acting like I never did and Whisky didn't really do good in replying?

Lynch him first. If he does not flip scum, you can lynch PM with the second lynch but I am pretty damn sure this guy is scum. And if he is, the second is between GNR and Voided.

Plausible, but I still want to know why he's scum to you.

[Voidedmafia]

I actually hate the relationship between Ven and Voided.

Voided keeps giving Ven a pass.

Ven was V/LA most of D1, which is practically the only reason I ignored him (there was also Loran and then Shadow that took up space, but yeah).

Ven voted Shadow without any reasoning, the same reason Voided was voting Shadow in the first place, yet Voided generally ignored it.

IIRC Ven actually gave some sort of reasoning for voting Shadow--which a look into his ISO reveals is untrue. However, Shadow just voted PM and practically said nothing else; while Ven's reasoning is rather shitty, at least he explained himself in some way. To me, voting without explanation is worse than voting with a shitty explanation (unless it's unbelievably stupid), so while Ven's vote is BAD, Shadow was worse.

Ven's play has actually been quite similar to that of PM in regard to caring about this game. Yet Voided has ignored it while jumping all over PM.

Maybe I'm missing something, but Ven doesn't give me the "blaaargh don't lynch me blarrrgh why u want me lynch u b bad" vibe I get from PM. The lack of rampant AtE in Ven's ISO compared to PM's helps him, too.

The only time Voided has really even mentioned Ven is to give him a pass (multiple times) for being VLA. For being the "leader of a town", the idea that he has completely ignored an entire player slot is hard to believe. And actually it just hit me. That's because Voided has "leaded" by tunneling a mislynch (even if the player was playing awfully) into the ground, and then started a new one.

Heh. Possible. Though now Ven is out of V/LA and I completely expect him to get into this game and get into it good. If not, assuming GNR or PM somehow do better, I'll happily join you in lynching Venrob.

And, Voided and Ven have had pretty much the same exact votes (Lera and Shadow) thus far other than Ven randomly voting GNR for lurking. I wouldn't be surprised if Ven came in and hopped on the PM wagon.

This honestly sounds more like coincidence than some form of sheeping on Ven's part.

[quote="In post 375, CryMeARiver
This is good reasoning for a D1 mislynch. But for what is essentially a D3 lynch, you should be looking for scumtells. Not another mislynch to drive the town into.[/quote]
But CMAR, the complete lack of any sort of scumhunting from PM is KILLING ME. Just as much as you saying that what you quoted here doesn't work as reason for lynching on "D3", your tells for PM don't really fly as a reason to call him town when he's done nothing this entire game.

[Voidedmafia]

You call these reads? This is the most half-hearted bullshit I have ever seen and I could have told you all of this after spending 2 minutes looking at the game. He has developed no scumtells or anything. Everyone is just hopping on PM because he doesn't know how to play this game it seems like, but I haven't seen any scumtells from him. In fact, only town tells. The only reason Voided is okay with GNR's post is because he a) Refers to Voided as the most town and b) Hops on his mislynch wagon. I don't see this as GNRscum as much as Voided scum.

The strength of the reads is of secondary importance. What I wanted is

activity

.

participation

.

Something

that indicates you're trying to scumhunt. GNR provided that (even if in a very watered-down way, satisfying my original demands, but the onus is entirely on him to actually continue to participate, as I can and will bear down on him as much as possible if he doesn't try to sustain it, just like I can and will do for you, PM, Ven, or Absta. Calling me most town and hopping onto PM are completely irrelevant. Sure, you can say I never said such, but if you read my first few posts in the day you'd know that such wasn't my focus at all.

As long as absta isn't pulling an epic bus with Voided right now (and if he is, he deserves to win because I got stuck with like 6 mislynches of a town), Ven-Voided is the scumteam I am pretty sure.

Maybe we are.

[Voidedmafia]

VOTE: CMAR

Why? (yes, I know CMAR already asked, but I JUST went through with this shit with Shadow; what the hell makes you think I'll let you slide?)

[CryMeARiver]

We lynch him for a lack of scumhunting.

We're not actually scumhunting ourselves by doing so, it's once again just another lack of activity things. He hasn't shown scumtells, we're just getting by with another mislynch. We're practically lynching him because he doesn't make sense, not because he's scummy.

His AtE's really aren't scummy though. Noobtells are different, I believe he is showing noobtown personally, even if he is a liability to the town. But we can't keep just cutting off liabilities is my point. We cut off two and both were town.

Voided, besides lack of activity of 3 slots and lack of sense of another, do you have any tells you could show? You might be due for a reread...

As far as Ven goes, I'll comb thru his ISO and give a case. He actually seems to be scummy because he is going through the game sheeping and wagoning while he knows what is going on though.

[Voidedmafia]

We lynch him for a lack of scumhunting.

We're not actually scumhunting ourselves by doing so, it's once again just another lack of activity things. He hasn't shown scumtells, we're just getting by with another mislynch. We're practically lynching him because he doesn't make sense, not because he's scummy.

His AtE's really aren't scummy though. Noobtells are different, I believe he is showing noobtown personally, even if he is a liability to the town. But we can't keep just cutting off liabilities is my point. We cut off two and both were town.

...*sigh* you have a point, I admit (and I also admit that, taken altogether, I don't really have a "scum"read on PM). But PM has had MULTIPLE chances to try and produce some content or prove himself to be useful, and each and every time they've come up he has completely failed to act, and he didn't have Ven's excuse of being V/LA to explain his inability to do so, and I'm extremely worried that if he isn't pressured enough he's not going to do anything at all (then again, that's pretty much my sentiment about everyone else that isn't you or Absta at this point).

As far as Ven goes, I'll comb thru his ISO and give a case. He actually seems to be scummy because he is going through the game sheeping and wagoning while he knows what is going on though.

Post 310 (ISO 15) from him isn't any sort of wagoning as I'm fairly sure no one had actually overly suspected GNR at that point, nor was he wagoned in any way.

You may be right in that I'm due for some rereads (which shouldn't be too hard, lol), but Ven is probably the only read out of the "other 3" that would be best moved by a good case. (or maybe I'm just hoping this game will be as easily wrapped up as the first iteration of this setup)

[CryMeARiver]

We can't change PM's play or his alignment...

But our goal is to lynch scum, not to force people to play the game.

As far as my thing for Venrob goes, a lot of it is based on this:

Basic scumhunting explanation: In my experiene, the key to finding scum, or at least one of them, is to catch them at the time they are most likely to act like scum. Common sense would dictate that these times would include: the very beginning of the game (scum have not yet fully taken on their role as pretending to be town and are too focused on trying too hard to pretend to be town) and directly after a night (this is less useful usually then the prior, but sometimes it's fruitful because scum returned to being scum at night and have to come back during the day to their town disguise and sometimes slip up). The longer a day goes on, the more a player can fall into their town disguise, even if they have a scum role PM. As the game goes on, scummy players will even start sounding like town. Therefore, yes, I find early reads to be important. While they shouldn't necessarily be the premise of a case, they are great supporting evidence.

And then go read Venrob the first 2 pages.

[absta101]

My vote was a combination of weak tells and paranoia. I've watched CMAR as scum and he's very convincing.
Anyway, my vote has conjured up some reactions that have helped me strengthen my reads. I'll elaborate later.
For now.

unvote: CMAR

[Voidedmafia]

We can't change PM's play or his alignment...

But our goal is to lynch scum, not to force people to play the game.

But you can't deny that him sitting there on his hands like this is fucking annoying.

And then go read Venrob

then

first 2 pages.

Fix'd?

P-EDIT: Hell no. Elaborate now.

[CryMeARiver]

We can't change PM's play or his alignment...

But our goal is to lynch scum, not to force people to play the game.

But you can't deny that him sitting there on his hands like this is fucking annoying.

And then go read Venrob

then

first 2 pages.

Fix'd?

P-EDIT: Hell no. Elaborate now.

No, go read his posts in the first two pages.

And absolutely. I'd imagine most of us were awfully annoying as noobs. A PM-Lera scumteam would have been hilarious.

And I assume absta is referring to Saw Mafia...but I got away with that one because of my charms and good looks, none of which I have displayed here (yet )

[Voidedmafia]

Ik, right? Its like the RVS on drugs

And whatever happened to simple hellos!!

VOTE: pmysterious
VOTE: voidedmafia
Just to say hello back.

Nothing to really say here, just RVS votes.

I checked the rules, it just said no using red.
Also wtf ur second last confirm not third!
Also ive been in a game with… no one here

And this is onlythe second game ive played on this forum
Lol for stupid pointless annoying reverse-text!

And btw it can be read normally so i dont count it as a hidden message, mod tell me if you do and i wont do it again lol

This post was confusing at first because of the reverse text, but beyond being annoying I don't see much of a problem.

Post 19 gives nothing.

I dont, but i hate RVS. And sorry, but i MIGHT just be a tad OCD at times, so i correct people. Sorry.

Gives me slight pause, as it does feel like overapologizing (and what the hell does being OCD have to do with things?

Your not, your L-2. 5 to lynch. Except for this:
UNVOTE: PMysterious
UNVOTE: Voidedmafia

Unvotes to put PM at L-3. Possibly could be read as being overly careful.

PMys, lor unvoted.

Whiskers, i never defended lor i just corrected you. I actually do have a type of autism so dobt blame me for being picky and correcting you.

Despite our argument with Loran about autism, I honestly dislike using autism (or any related ASDs) as an excuse for anything. Nothing against those with the disorders, but it annoys me when people try to use it as a crutch.

VOTE: shadow
VOTE: lor

Stop being so scummy!

lol

Seems to be the first post you have a problem with, CMAR. You do have a point in that it's awful (the "lol" separated by lines doesn't help), but compared to Shadow's vote it's better. Without that comparison, I definitely agree that it's one of his worst posts.

or maybe "im busy so i didnt go specifically out of my way to know what is RVS and what is not, sry" would be more accurate

This was an attempt to elaborate on one of xof's posts, which is the same thing I got out of that post. Not really alignment-indicative, imo.

The worst I've found is his vote onto Shadow with shitty reasoning so far, though I think that Post 310 mitigates this as it is rather expansive in it's reasoning.

... If i've counted right absta just hammered.
I'm keeping this in mind.

Just saying, and also i came back to find the thread 3 PAGES LONGER than last time i read. WOW.

This...I have no idea what he's going need to keep this in mind for. Sure, Loran flipped town, but I think it's generally agreed that he just needed to go regardless of who hammered him.

Last bit looks more like fluff than anything.

Well, he's not a townread anymore, at least, but at most he's nullscum to me. The later parts about his Shadow-gut don't read as sheeping, but I can't really wrap my mind around them enough to make anything out of them.

[CryMeARiver]

The backwards text thing is a plea for attention. Noob mafia, in my opinion, often want the game to start right away and want to act town right way and thus post a lot early in the game.

[Voidedmafia]

The backwards text thing is a plea for attention. Noob mafia, in my opinion, often want the game to start right away and want to act town right way and thus post a lot early in the game.

I guess I can agree to the plea for attention, but for the latter Ven certainly didn't post a lot early game. In fact, after post 70 he doesn't post again until 162 (partially due to V/LA, but still). Could've been his intention, sure, but considering it didn't really happen I'm not sure.

[CryMeARiver]

The backwards text thing is a plea for attention. Noob mafia, in my opinion, often want the game to start right away and want to act town right way and thus post a lot early in the game.

I guess I can agree to the plea for attention, but for the latter Ven certainly didn't post a lot early game. In fact, after post 70 he doesn't post again until 162 (partially due to V/LA, but still). Could've been his intention, sure, but considering it didn't really happen I'm not sure.

The first page he did for sure.

[CryMeARiver]

5 days since he posted, mod can we get something done here?

[Voidedmafia]

5 days since he posted, mod can we get something done here?

Actually, he's V/LA until the 12th. He should probably be replaced (temp. or otherwise).

[CryMeARiver]

5 days since he posted, mod can we get something done here?

Actually, he's V/LA until the 12th. He should probably be replaced (temp. or otherwise).

Oh gosh -___- Yeah, replace him or lynch him. I support the latter as he has already exhibited scumminess whereas PM hasn't.

[Voidedmafia]

Oh gosh -___- Yeah, replace him or lynch him. I support the latter as he has already exhibited scumminess whereas PM hasn't.

I suppose you have a point there.

Vote: Venrob

[absta101]

Don't lynch someone who is V/LA wtf.
I'm certain there is scum in you two.

Mod can you replace Venrob please. He's V/LA all the time.

[Voidedmafia]

Don't lynch someone who is V/LA wtf.
I'm certain there is scum in you two.

Mod can you replace Venrob please. He's V/LA all the time.

I thought we abandoned that line of reasoning, eh?

[absta101]

Voided is scum because he easily attaches himself to the "alpha males" of the town.

CMAR is scum because my gut is screaming it. I've had experience with him as scum and he seems to playing "dumb" deliberately. He knows we're in a situation where we could lose after TODAY yet he still wants to lynch someone who's V/LA.
VOTE: CMAR
--

Voided needs to get lynched. PM get in here please.