[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[saulres]

I was looking at the Medical Mafia setup, and wondering if something similar would be playable for cops. So I threw this together.

It's my first time even touching on designing a setup, be gentle.

Precinct Madness

Setup:
1 Mafia Framer
1 Mafia Godfather
2 Sane Cops
2 Insane Cops
1 Paranoid Cop
1 Naive Cop
1 Results Cop (gets "Innocent" if target is the Godfather or a townie who got correct results, "Guilty" if target is the Framer or a townie who got incorrect results)

Every player who is a Cop is not told which version they are, and will be revealed as "Cop".
Scum will flip as "scum" but not reveal which role they had.

I didn't get very far into thinking out breaking strategies, or if the results could even be used. But I wanted to throw it out there.

[Staeg]

That sounds like dethy on steroids.

[izakthegoomba]

That sounds like dethy on steroids.

This is exactly what I thought.

[callforjudgement]

The Godfather means it's not breakable the same way as Dethy, at least.

However, I think it may be breakable the same way most Opens with lots of different roles are; after a couple of days of elimination of who does what, you're beginning to get into 1v1 territory. (It's probably in the town's interest for everyone to scan the same person; and it may be in the Mafia's interest to not use the Framer at all, or at least to randomize whether to use it. The main disadvantage for town is that Naive and Sane cops look much the same unless they actually scan scum, and with only one investigates-guilty player in the setup, that's going to be awkward. The Results Cop helps town quite a bit, but only in determining one cop's sanity at a time; and they're probably the #1 target for the scum nightkill. (However, both town and scum will have issues figuring out who they are.)

This one might need a computer search to find the best strategy…

[animorpherv1]

zoraster, your setup reminds me of Max's Always lylo mafia, or whatever it's called. It's not the same thing, but it's sort of similar.

[gorckat]

If only there were a Micro Queue where such a game could be run with no regard for balance and to see how it plays

[saulres]

^Nice one.

I hadn't heard of dethy before; I tried searching the wiki for a similar setup but hadn't found it.

[animorpherv1]

I hadn't heard of dethy before; I tried searching the wiki for a similar setup but hadn't found it.

Five people. 1 mafia, 4 cops are varying sanities. Has an incredibly high town win rate, and I believe it's either broken or essentially broken.

[saulres]

Yeah, I found that on the wiki after the name was mentioned. Wanted to see why mine was the same but on steroids.

Might be fun to try running it, though, if it's okay to try that somewhere/when.

[T-Bone]

I'd play it.

[saulres]

Which one, dethy or mine?

[T-Bone]

Yours. I happen to like dethy so dethy on steroids is interesting to me.

[GreyICE]

I was looking at the Medical Mafia setup, and wondering if something similar would be playable for cops. So I threw this together.

It's my first time even touching on designing a setup, be gentle.

Precinct Madness

Setup:
1 Mafia Framer
1 Mafia Godfather
2 Sane Cops
2 Insane Cops
1 Paranoid Cop
1 Naive Cop
1 Results Cop (gets "Innocent" if target is the Godfather or a townie who got correct results, "Guilty" if target is the Framer or a townie who got incorrect results)

Every player who is a Cop is not told which version they are, and will be revealed as "Cop".
Scum will flip as "scum" but not reveal which role they had.

I didn't get very far into thinking out breaking strategies, or if the results could even be used. But I wanted to throw it out there.

How will town flip?

[callforjudgement]

Wrt the Dethy discussion, there's no known way to get a 100% town win rate, but the town win rate in practice is very very high (you can get a pretty high win rate just with setup-breaking strategies, and then there's scumhunting on

top

of that).

[callforjudgement]

Intense Mafia

• 5 1-shot Killproof Townies
  
• 2 1-shot Killproof Mafia

I think there's a hole for a small setup that takes a long time to play. The scum aren't allowed to shoot each other (I think the ability to do so would make the game much more scumsided, as shooting townies would no longer confirm them due to the amount of WIFOM involved, even if the scum always aimed at town).

(And clarification: whether the killproof shot has been used is public knowledge.)

With an appropriate queue for running this in, I'm beginning to seriously consider running it. Do people have balance/fun suggestions for me before I take it to Hoopla?

[quadz08]

You could run that in the open queue before (and now, for that matter). >_>

What's the point of making the mafia killproof? Do you mean lynchproof as well?

[saulres]

If I'm reading right, the setup could be described thusly:

5 Townies
2 Mafia

On N1 the mafia get no kill.
On subsequent nights, in addition to their kill, mafia select one player to be turned into an Innocent Child.

That's the same thing, yah?

[Snowy]

You could run that in the open queue before (and now, for that matter). >_>

What's the point of making the mafia killproof?

Do you mean lynchproof as well?

[BK201]

So I ran 13-player variant of Donner Party on another site recently. Same thing, just +1 VT. (link if interested; http://forums.station.sony.com/strategy ... c_id=85586


The final five were 2 VTs, Vig, SK with NK immune shield intact, and a Goon.
For the majority of the game there were no NK reveals, until they lynched the SK who had killed one of the Goons. Unfortunately for town, that goon did not perform any kills.

The goon that made it to endgame played a really great game and really nobody alive suspected him. Town stayed dedicated even without alignment flips. SK fake-claimed the Dietician late-game (gunsmith) which he had consumed on the first night. Town was hesitant, but they did not buy the claim. (pretty smart considering this was the first time something like Donner Party was hosted on this site)

Turned out to be a popular game.

tl:dr Donner Party is awesome.

Though next time I'm going to use lighter flavor, maybe candy zombiez?

[Hoopla]

Nice review. I agree it's a good setup.

[callforjudgement]

Killproof was meant to include lynches.

Thinking about it, it's a little broken, though; I can't see any reason for scum not to use the strategy of never shooting the same player as the lynch, and just targeting the same townie twice. Town don't have much of a reason not to just lynch everyone twice (in fact, spreading around is worse), which basically makes it 2:5 mountainous where town know scum's next NK in advance but only once they've already decided who to lynch.

So the whole thing can be collapsed into 2:5 mountainous with final words, which is not a balanced setup (it's scumsided, probably not gamebreakingly so, but still not that fun to play), and also misses the point of the setup.

Perhaps it could be fixed by barring scum from NKing the same person twice in a row?

[vijay2vasandani]

Then it'd basically be 2:5 mountainous with an Innocent Child every night? And no night kills (because they can't shoot the person again) for the first two nights.

[IceGuy]

No-kill

X Mafia Goons
Y Vanilla Townies

There are no lynches or NKs. Every day, the town votes to give an extra vote to a player, or to remove a vote from a player. At night, scum does the same thing.

Wincon for town is "Mafia controls no votes", wincon for scum is "Mafia controls at least half of votes".

[callforjudgement]

Scum can force at least a draw by giving votes to each other. You should probably allow scum to remove only.

[IceGuy]

Scum can force at least a draw by giving votes to each other. You should probably allow scum to remove only.

That's a good point.

On second thought, it might be a good idea to allow town to remove only, and scum to give only.

Because as it currently stands it would probably be optimal strategy for town to only remove, turning it into Mountainous.