History Mafia Mini Theme - 1358 Game Over!

[Staeg]

Also the fuck I'm on the same level as DV. Where did CO go to?

It's not same level, it's in descending order of need-of-death; bitmap's there at the bottom cause I don't want that thing anywhere near my eventual LyLos; CO said words and removed himself from the list. You're there mainly because of your predecessor and the over-the-top stretching stuff in your first posts.

[Jarvis]

Wait what. You thought scooby was scum? That's new.

Also I'm still wtf-ing that you have Bitmap above CO in your list. Like what. That one post? I don't get it.

@ChaosOmega:

DCL is not going through. Join onto DV please.

[DeasVail]

Chaos:

-Yeah, I wasn't supporting McStab's lynch.

-The first quote from the Quil thing is really just me mucking around.

-I didn't mean to be aggressive in the second one, and I didn't actually mean to colour his name, but I didn't think it would have been a big deal if I had meant to vote McStab there (because I was thinking of voting). Also, it went on for so long, because Quil kept pushing it.

-Regarding DCL, I read over things and changed my mind.

-I don't really care whether I had the same reasoning as Matt or not, but for the sake of helping you better understand my position, I don't find the miller claim particularly town like Matt did. Instead, I didn't think it particularly scummy or townish, and my weak townread is based on the rest of his play.

[DeasVail]

Also, I'd like Bitmap's theory about my scumslip.

[Bitmap]

Also, I'd like Bitmap's theory about my scumslip.

I don't understand your reaction.

[DeasVail]

I don't understand your reaction.

Ok. What is it though?

[Bitmap]

I don't understand your reaction.

Ok. What is it though?

How you like a theory against you...

[Bitmap]

Usually the reaction is:

"Lol, that's funny. You suck."

or

"No, your theory is bogus."

[DeasVail]

Oh, I meant, I would (I'd) like your theory, as in I want to know it.

And I can't exactly say your theory is

completely

bogus until I see it.

Well, obviously (since I'm town teehee) it will be bogus to some degree, but it could actually be a decent theory except for the fact that it's wrong.

[Shamrock]

Here I am! Sorry I haven't been able to post as much as I'd hoped. I will still be V/LA for a few days more, so this post will mostly just be a series of responses to arguments others are making.

@DCL: See, you kept saying "read my ISO it's in there" and I was interpreting that as you having a single post that explained your case on IceGuy succinctly. But apparently not. Anyway, I'm still not really buying what you're saying there.

It is good to see ChaosOmega contributing positively to the game. His latest posts feel a lot more townish to me than his previous ones.

I still think Michel is just coming under scrutiny for having an unusually careful posting style. I don't have a strong read on him, so I'm open to arguments that he is scum if there are any new ones, but nothing he or anyone else has said/done has really pushed me from my original opinion.

@MattP: Echoing the requests for your scumreads.

@Bitmap: I'd (I would) also like your theory on DV's scumslip because I have no idea what you're referring to.

Something about Jarvis rubs me the wrong way, but I can't point to anything specific. In any case, he's pushing a DeasVail lynch so I'm inclined to cut him some slack, as I do still find DV's behavior (particularly at the end of D1) super scummy. This, in particular...

I'll be frank, your whole reaction around the lynch there reads as scum taken aback by his buddy getting quicklynched and not sure how to react. Caught halfway between bussing and defending, with your almost-vote and wagon commentating and your complaint of all the CO-wagoners jumping to McStab.

... is my thinking exactly.

As for DCL, I am still uncertain/leaning scummy on him and would take a lynch on him if DeasVail lynch isn't happening. I don't think tunneling itself is scummy, but at this point it feels like he's afraid to STOP tunneling lest he be hit for inconsistency, and that is scummy. Also, claiming miller D2 is bizarre and clearly anti-town for the reasons everyone has been raising. Yes, it is clearly an unusual play from a scum POV too, and I understand what Matt said earlier about that, but I think sometimes it is too easy to get caught up in the WIFOM games and miss a scum just pushing blatantly anti-town actions. And this argument...

While it would of been beneficial for the miller to claim day 1, 666 might have just wanted to last longer than a day in order to help catch scum... or some shtick.

... neglects the fact that waiting to claim simply makes no sense for a town player, and indeed, DCL hasn't really been able to come up with a sane explanation for his delay. Actually, the more I write/think about it, the better I feel about a DCL lynch.

But for now I'll put my vote where my heart and gut are.

VOTE: DeasVail

Aaaand okay I was piecing this post together while reading the thread and had already put this vote in before making it to the latest page but...

I didn't mean to be aggressive in the second one, and I didn't actually mean to colour his name, but I didn't think it would have been a big deal if I had meant to vote McStab there (because I was thinking of voting). Also, it went on for so long, because Quil kept pushing it.

... I originally rolled my eyes and skimmed over your exchange with Quilford, but this prompted me to reread it. What you're saying here doesn't feel like an accurate representation of what happened to me (I recommend everyone who can't remember it go reread it, it's on page 23-24). It went on for so long because you kept responding, even to posts which clearly didn't necessitate a response, like Quilford's "I think you're lying". It feels defensive in a scummy way to me, like you were inordinately worried about potentially gathering a "liar" stink around your name. I feel like the town response to seeing that post of Quil's below your own is to roll your eyes and close the thread without bothering to respond - not to get into a nervous-looking page-long shoving match.

[Jarvis]

Shamrock, why have you been avoiding the thread?

[DeasVail]

... I originally rolled my eyes and skimmed over your exchange with Quilford, but this prompted me to reread it. What you're saying here doesn't feel like an accurate representation of what happened to me (I recommend everyone who can't remember it go reread it, it's on page 23-24). It went on for so long because you kept responding, even to posts which clearly didn't necessitate a response, like Quilford's "I think you're lying". It feels defensive in a scummy way to me, like you were inordinately worried about potentially gathering a "liar" stink around your name. I feel like the town response to seeing that post of Quil's below your own is to roll your eyes and close the thread without bothering to respond - not to get into a nervous-looking page-long shoving match.

Sorry, I take back what I said about it going on for so long because of Quil pushing it.

[MattP]

@MattP: Echoing the requests for your scumreads.

Yep, I'll have time tomorrow to actually do shit. Hold me to that.

[Shamrock]

@Mod: V/LA from tomorrow until 8/11 but I think I should be able to at least post a couple times

[IceGuy]

Thank you for posting that you aren't posting. We couldn't guess that.

[Shamrock]

Well, Jarvis didn't seem to!

[Staeg]

My vote stays

[MattP]

Claiming at the beginning just ends up in a quick auto-death a day-1 lynch or night 1 kill in which I end up not really doing much and being useless.

Why wouldn't you want to die again? Miller is a negative utility role.

Your goal should have been to have been so pro-town, scum was forced to kill you N1 and hit a role that isn't helping town any.

Instead, you claim it day 2, and right at the start of day 2. That was good timing for you. Worried someone investigated you overnight? I see no town benefit to claiming miller D2, but I do see scum benefit for doing so.

Why the fuck would scum NK a claimed miller?

[Jarvis]

^ the point

@Mod: V/LA from tomorrow until 8/11 but I think I should be able to at least post a couple times

No. You've been avoiding this game. Why?.

[MattP]

^ the point

Waht?

[Jarvis]

Claiming at the beginning just ends up in a quick auto-death

a day-1 lynch

or night 1 kill

in which I end up not really doing much and being useless.

Why the fuck would scum NK a claimed miller?

CO's point, as far as I can tell, was that a miller has two plays open to them - be really fucking protown and get killed night 1, or much easier and much more sensible, claim first thing day 1. (not claim day 2)

More reads please.

[MattP]

Yeah except a miller no matter how protown they are will never be NKd by scum because Millers don't make it to lylo, that's the rule, and why would being a miller be any more incentive to be protown?

I'll give more reads when I'm done with this. Bitmap, IceGuy, and Staeg are obvtown. DCL is probtown, as are you. DV I haven't read the case on yet. CO is slinging mud at DCL in your shadow.

[Jarvis]

To clarify, miller doesn't claim for the first option. It's a really bad idea anyway and no-one should ever do it because it's almost guaranteed to not work and fire shit back in your face, but it's there for illustration.

Claiming miller day 2 is something I just cannot fathom whatever. Unless maybe SK. Or gambiting scum. But still.

[MattP]

Point is that DCL is going to be lynched before lylo, no matter how towny he is.

[Staeg]

Yeah except a miller no matter how protown they are will never be NKd by scum because Millers don't make it to lylo, that's the rule, and why would being a miller be any more incentive to be protown?

For one, the rule shouldn't be this, and for two, it isn't. I can present exhibits A and B that I know of, and can probably search for more if necessary. A miller claim on day 1 should be counted as a slight scumtell (and I'm not sure what level of death claiming it on d2 requires, but).