History Mafia Mini Theme - 1358 Game Over!

[MattP]

It IS the rule, millers are ALWAYS lynched before lylo, end of story. Look at Spartacus Mini Theme for reference.

[Staeg]

Which spartacus mini theme?

And, anyway, I've been burned by not lynching millers before - and I don't regret it, because they played one of the best scumgames I've seen. If the miller is playing a good towngame, I wouldn't lynch him just for being a miller (BUT IF THEY ARE PLAYING LIKE TEXTBOOK SCUM . . .); but this is mafia theory and let's not go there, we both agree that 666 doesn't make it to lylo

[MattP]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22472

The "miller" was scum with me and I bussed for his death the entire game. A lot of miller theory was discussed in the game and almost all players agreed millers don't make it to lylo. You can look through it.

[DeasVail]

Point is that DCL is going to be lynched before lylo, no matter how towny he is.

I disagree.

[Shamrock]

^ the point

@Mod: V/LA from tomorrow until 8/11 but I think I should be able to at least post a couple times

No. You've been avoiding this game. Why?.

Are you referring to the fact that I've posted in other games without posting in this one? I had limited time and was not able to post in all of my games. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[ChaosOmega]

unvote, vote: DeasVail

DCL is probtown

DCL is going to be lynched before lylo, no matter how towny he is.

You know you wanna lynch people that you think are scum, right?

It IS the rule, millers are ALWAYS lynched before lylo, end of story.

It's gonna be ok, just try to calm down and show me on the doll where the miller touched you.

And I don't know where this rule is, but no. I mean, I wanna lynch DCLXVI, but because he claimed miller in a sketchy spot, not because he claimed it at all.

If you want DCLXVI lynched, why didn't you get on his wagon when it had steam?

I don't really care whether I had the same reasoning as Matt or not

I do. It makes your scumhunting look less genuine.

I don't find the miller claim particularly town like Matt did. Instead, I didn't think it particularly scummy or townish

Yeah, you derive a different conclusion, but you steal from MattP to get there. MattP says his claim is "not calculating enough" and after that you say his play has been free and if he was scum, he would have talked it over with his partner, i.e., it wasn't calculating enough to come from scum.

And you have DCLXVI as a weak townread. You wouldn't list both your partners like that, would you?

[DeasVail]

Interesting stuff:

-No one really expressed suspicion of me Day 1 (Scooby was the only one I think?)
-Beginning of Day 2, Shamrock mentions my weak stance on McStab without really trying to push it or attack me. It's merely "Does this look sketchy as fuck to anyone else?" and that's it for his next few posts. No actual effort to try and read me and an example of his cautious (likely) scum play.
-This doesn't actually stick, and it's not until Jarvis comes in that people actually start expressing suspicion of me.

I don't really know what to make of everyone suddenly suspecting me. I feel like there's something significant to learn from it, but I really don't know.

Also, I'm Otto Von Bismark, VT

[DeasVail]

Oh, and if I do get lynched, consider this:

If staeg is town, then shamrock is likely scum, because if he was town, he would be a pretty easy target for scum to attack throughout these days because of his somewhat low activity and cautious posting. However, Day 1, Amrun and I were the only ones really wanting a shamrock lynch and today it's Staeg and me. I find this weird if staeg is town, because for someone like shamrock there shouldn't be so much resistance to lynching him.

I don't think this is conclusive or anything, but in my opinion it slightly supports Shamrock-scum.

[Jarvis]

Is that L-1 yet or what?

Are you referring to the fact that I've posted in other games without posting in this one? I had limited time and was not able to post in all of my games. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Very limited. Limited enough that you could only make one post at a time - and damn, this game was right at the bottom of the pecking order. Because surely if you had limited time you'd post in each of your games, rather than multiple times in one, right?

But in any case, why is this game lower priority to post in than any others?

then shamrock is likely scum, because if he was town, he would be a pretty easy target for scum to attack throughout these days because of his somewhat low activity and cautious posting.

VOTE: Shamrock

wink wink nudge nudge

[MichelSableheart]

@Jarvis: I was under the impression that players simply waited to hammer 666 because they wanted to see more discussion. Why not try to get players to hammer rather then switch? Really, what's up with towns failing to lynch the most suspicious players? A wagon gets to L-1, players are willing to hammer but ask for more time to read and discuss, and then the wagon simply pewters out.

DV's reactions at the end of day 1 seem typical discussing a compromise lynch that he's not entirely happy with. I could see scum giving that behaviour towards a partner, but I could very easily see that behaviour come from town as well. Something similar is true for the quilford nightkill. Though Quilford was suspicious of DV, he was a good nightkill target for any scumteam. DV could be scum, but I'm not convinced. 666 is a far better lynch.

@Staeg: Let's see if I understand your point about Bitmap correct. Basically, you don't necessarily believe he's scum, but feel that as town he's very likely to cause a mislynch in Lylo, so you would like to lynch him before that?

[Staeg]

Michel, no, not lynch - t's just that if there was a vig so good as to shoot him, I wouldn't complain.

[Jarvis]

@Jarvis: I was under the impression that players simply waited to hammer 666 because they wanted to see more discussion. Why not try to get players to hammer rather then switch? Really, what's up with towns failing to lynch the most suspicious players? A wagon gets to L-1, players are willing to hammer but ask for more time to read and discuss, and then the wagon simply pewters out.

I wasn't under that impression. Who was willing to hammer?

Also DV is the most suspicious player. DCL was a compromise.

(but i'll give you a clue - I don't care which of these gets lynched today as long as it's one of them and the other dies at some point too)

Also what who said Quilford dying meant DVscum? Not me. And yeeeaaaah you're gonna have to elaborate more on that first point more.

[Shamrock]

@Michel: The only time DCL was ever even at L-1 was <2 pages into D2, and at that point Staeg immediately unvoted him. Do you really think lynching him that quickly would have been a good idea?

Quilford was obvtown and was, as you say, a clearly solid choice for any scum to kill. I think you're the only person who's been seriously speculating about nightkill motives anyway.

@Jarvis: Still not sure what you're on about - looking at my post history, there was only one day in which I posted in another game without posting in this one, and only one post I made there was substantive.

And yes, DV is L-1 now.

[MattP]

Point is that DCL is going to be lynched before lylo, no matter how towny he is.

I disagree.

I don't see what that has to do with anything

[DeasVail]

I don't see what that has to do with anything

Me neither

[Bitmap]

Actually, forget I said about DV scumslip.

[Nexus]

DCLXVI has been prodded.

[Jarvis]

@Jarvis: Still not sure what you're on about - looking at my post history, there was only one day in which I posted in another game without posting in this one, and only one post I made there was substantive.

What about that one day? Why didn't you think the ~2 pages since you last posted were worth comment?

[MichelSableheart]

Michel, no, not lynch - t's just that if there was a vig so good as to shoot him, I wouldn't complain.

Ah, ok, that explains.

I wasn't under that impression. Who was willing to hammer?

Staeg voted. Bitmap voted. I voted. Iceguy voted. CO voted. Then immediately afterwards, Shamrock expressed suspicion, which would be enough for a hammer. Dv requested more time, so Staeg unvoted to prevent a quickhammer. When you brought him to L-1 again, Bitmap unvoted to prevent a quickhammer. The fact that the reasoning for unvoting was "to prevent a quickhammer" twice was what gave me the impression. I must admit haven't thoroughly analysed the current stance of each player towards the 666 wagon, though. But other then 666 himself, I don't remember anyone vehemently opposing the lynch, which indicates that getting a hammer if you want to isn't really that difficult. That you believe the DV lynch to be better is fine. But that you're depicting the 666 wagon as "never going to happen" in the process is dubious, and could be a very sneaky way of defending a scumbuddy. Could you give your thought process as to why the 666 lynch was unobtainable at the time?

Also what who said Quilford dying meant DVscum? Not me. And yeeeaaaah you're gonna have to elaborate more on that first point more.

Quilford dying is the only other argument I can see against DV other then his reactions immediately prior to the McStab lynch. So it's me who sees it as a mild scumtell. Don't understand the second line. Which point should I elaborate on?

[DeasVail]

Hey, just letting you know I'm having internet problems, so very limited time right now. This should be fixed within a day or two, but I'll try to let you know if otherwise.

[DCLXVI]

I'm against a DeasVail lynch. I'm not seeing him as scum and I can't tell why he has been run up like this.

vote:shamrock

this is a much better wagon.

I'll have more to say later today, I'm catching up on all my games now after a busy last few days.

[Jarvis]

@Michel

- Again, DCL was not my preferred choice of lynch. He was a compromise because nobody seemed keen on DV. And yes, I'll explain my thought process. It has a lot to do with the fact that each time DCL got to L-1, someone would get cold feet and hop off. When people unvote at L-1 before intent to hammer has been declared, they clearly aren't interested in seeing the lynch go through. The fact that neither of these players has rejoined or made any motion to do so only cements this.

And anyway, he's better left to a vig. What do we gain from a lynch on him if he flips town? Oh look, it was pretty much a policy lynch so very little, if anything, can be gathered from it.

Also, expressing suspicion =/= willing to hammer.

DV's reactions at the end of day 1 seem typical discussing a compromise lynch that he's not entirely happy with. I could see scum giving that behaviour towards a partner, but I could very easily see that behaviour come from town as well.

Please elaborate on that.

Quilford dying is the only other argument I can see against DV other then his reactions immediately prior to the McStab lynch. So it's me who sees it as a mild scumtell.

lol

"I think this could be interpreted as a scumtell but this is why it isn't so the case on DV has no merit"

Nice strawman.  Nobody has even tried to use that argument, and there's a reason why. You debunking scumtells that don't exist doesn't make him any more town.

[Nexus]

'That's history. I say history because it happened in the past.' - Murray Walker

Votecount 2.3:

DeasVail (4): Bitmap, Jarvis, Shamrock, ChaosOmega
Shamrock (3): Staeg, DeasVail, DCLXVI
DCLXVI (2): MichelSableheart, IceGuy

Not voting (1): MattP

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is 10pm (BST) on the 14th August 2012

Shamrock is v/la until the 11th August.

IceGuy has been prodded.

[DeasVail]

More Shamrock votes please.

[DCLXVI]

Ok reads.

Bitmap is town for the whole sig thing.
Staeg is town due to his response to my miller claim.
MattP is town, this is more of a gut read, I just can't see him as a bussing Vash, and if there is an SK it doesn't seem as likely that he would have been as vocal of a scumhunter.


DeasVail is leaning town. The speed of his wagon along with the fact that there doesn't seem to be much reason behind it leads me to think that he is town.

Michael is null, his posting style is consistent with his meta.
Jarvis is nullish, His predecessor scooby seemed to be playing to his town meta, but I'm less certain of Jarvis.

By PoE that leaves scum as.

ChaosOmega
Shamrock
ICEguy