Judge, Jury, and Executioner - Over

[Mastermind of Sin]

WrathChild and Defender look especially bad from that transcript, but I don't know why WC would incriminate himself on purpose like this.

[DCLXVI]

I thought we were not allowed copy/paste the qt here?

It's all paraphrased so I think it should be fine.

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

D3f3nd3r (7): Nocmen, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Nocmen, Mastermind of Sin, Mastermind of Sin, Ser Panda

vijay2vasandani (6): DoomYoshi, DCLXVI, Knight of Cydonia, DoomYoshi, guille2015, Nocmen
Knight of Cydonia (6): WrathChild, WrathChild, TheShadow, Nero Cain, Axelrod, Nero Cain
Nero Cain (6): Teleporting Speed Hippos, guille2015, guille2015, Mastermind of Sin, TheShadow, TheShadow
TheShadow (4): Quilford, Quilford, DCLXVI, DCLXVI
Nocmen (3): D3f3nd3r, Quilford, vijay2vasandani
WrathChild (3): StrangerCoug, Knight of Cydonia, Knight of Cydonia
StrangerCoug (2): Ser Panda, Nero Cain
Axelrod (2): vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani
DoomYoshi (2): StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug
whispersilk (1): Ser Panda
Mastermind of Sin (1): Axelrod
guille2015 (1): DoomYoshi

13

votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has

3

votes.
With

19

alive, it's

10

to hammer.
There are

57

votes in play,

0

of which are frozen, leaving

57

votes active.

Deadline is August 31st, noon CEST.

[Nero Cain]

As I said yesterday, while I was on the early wagon (2nd person to vote him) a) That wagon was pushed

really quickly

which made me feel off about the people who leapt on it and b) Thor's play throughout the day redeemed him in my eyes.

So its not like I'm the first one to use this "wagon is fast so prob town" logic. Why you find this scummy from me but not from KOC is confusing. + KOC using this logic to defend Thor and to lightly attack me over it is lol fail.

And its served me fairly well in the past.

There are two differences there. One is the inclusion of the word: Probable.

What are you talking about? There's no "probable" there. You must be referring to an earlier post. And even then it reeks of playing it safe. Do you really think that someone saying "player X is

probable

town." is a town tell? I don't think there's a difference there at all.

vijay wagon stinks.

yoshi is all like "well he might be scum"

MOS says he's ok with it (but doesn't vote)

DC is like "yeah, he's lurking scum"

KOC votes for missing Shadows roleclaim.

Nocmen is just like "yay a v2v wagon"

You voted him since you didn't like his vote on Ax and his switch on nocmen.

some great arguments there.

If the v2v wagon goes through and flips town there is no fucking way that its a pure town wagon.

[Knight of Cydonia]

KOC votes for missing Shadows roleclaim.

Things I find believable:
You being convinced that against all logic, I am really scum playing some huge elaborate gambit
Things I find less believable:
That you could "forget" two role claims of near identical roles that took up several pages of discussion each yesterday having commented on one of those claims.

What about I think you're scum do you want me to explain Axel? I don't remember what or why I said what I said though. I think I have some form of amnesia. Will read again.

There comes a point where you go beyond "not paying attention to the game" and into "why can't I keep track of all these people I threw shit at."
I think vijay just reached that point.

I didn't vote him for "forgetting Shadow's roleclaim" at all. I voted him because I believe he didn't "forget" it, he just ignored it for the sake of pushing on any old wagon. I think he's been throwing so much shit at any wagon in the hope it'll stick that he's not actually got a case on anyone: see his #921 when asked for a reason for his Axel vote - "I think you're scum" is not a valid case on it's own by D2, sorry bro.
Look at his initial jump on my wagon: after Iceguy posted this

Do we have nightkills mod?

Everything I'm telling you about the set-up is either in the first posts or in your role PM. I'm not giving out further information.

which clearly states "I'm not telling you any more about the setup", vijay chose to misinterpret that as "I have told you everything about the setup" and doublevoted me. And now you're misinterpreting the case on him in the biggest chainsaw I've seen since I finished Lollipop Chainsaw.

[Mastermind of Sin]

If the v2v wagon goes through and flips town there is no fucking way that its a pure town wagon.

That's really insightful considering that I've seen like one pure town on town wagon in my entire history on mafiascum (~140 games), and it was in a 50 player game where we only need 10 to lynch. (and there was only like 7 mafia).

Way to say something without really saying anything, Nero Cain.

[WrathChild]

I thought we were not allowed copy/paste the qt here?

It's paraphrased.

[Nero Cain]

fair enough KOK. Mind answering my question?

You should read the rest of my post MOS. Context is everything.

[WrathChild]

WrathChild and Defender look especially bad from that transcript, but I don't know why WC would incriminate himself on purpose like this.

I posted it because I'm not afraid to take blame for it. I made good points. Even Arugula himself says he played badly.

I find it interesting that you're willing to jump out and say I look bad for taking a strong stance against him. I was actually starting to wonder about the people that were taking light stances on him like Whisper and Axel. Arugula played poorly. Why would anyone think he was town unless they knew he was town to start off with?

[Mastermind of Sin]

@Nero Cain: I did read the rest of your post. It was your closing argument that was the weakest link and betrayed that you didn't actually have any important conclusions to make after all that setup.

P-Edit @WrathChild: Because your arguments are (and were) terrible. No one in their right minds would think that was a legitimate argument for scum. Playing poorly != being scum, and in fact by the general site definition of "playing poorly", that person is much more likely to be town. That's a relatively simple conclusion to make, so I am having a hard time deciding if you are just stupid or were willfully ignorant.

[WrathChild]

@Nero Cain: I did read the rest of your post. It was your closing argument that was the weakest link and betrayed that you didn't actually have any important conclusions to make after all that setup.

P-Edit @WrathChild: Because your arguments are (and were) terrible. No one in their right minds would think that was a legitimate argument for scum. Playing poorly != being scum, and in fact by the general site definition of "playing poorly", that person is much more likely to be town. That's a relatively simple conclusion to make, so I am having a hard time deciding if you are just stupid or were willfully ignorant.

So it's a town read when players are playing stupid? So by your offensive definition, I'm town. Stop contradicting yourself. You're saying that I'm stupid, but playing stupid is site-meta for town, but you can't decide if I'm town or scum. Do me a favor and never ever use the playing poorly != scum argument. I'm in another game at the moment where a player playing stupidly flipped scum Day 1. So stop being an ass-hat and actually discuss what you think is so scummy about my argument in light of the fact that you think being stupid = town.

My arguments:
1. Arugula wanted confirmed town judge to claim. Please explain how thinking that is scummy is stupid by me?
2. Arugula over-reacts to a fake-guilty. Please explain how thinking that is scummy is stupid by me?
3. Arugula backtracks on his play. This is not even my point, this is 666's. You can explain how that is stupid to him.
4. Arugula panics at L-1 and quick hammers Thor. Please explain how thinking that is scummy is stupid by me?
5. Arugula doesn't feel sincere when calling himself a townie. I admitted this was weak from the get go.
6. Arugula goes from apologizing to Thor to calling him scum, when in fact the trend was quite the opposite as Thor continued to participate at high levels while Arugula lurked into shadows. Please explain how thinking that is scummy is stupid by me?

ADDITIONALLY,
Please explain why you think that the people pushing for Arugula's (who you apparently thought was obv-town) Guilty are scummier than the people who took soft/fence-sitting positions on him?

[WrathChild]

Wow, this just in. Not once during the course of Day 1 did Mastermind express his stance on Arugula being OBV-Town. It's not until after the flip that he comes in to tell us how stupid we were for lynching him... AFTER THE FLIP.

[Sir Bastion]

are we just repeating the same discussion I had with MOS 5 pages ago?

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug Avoids leading wagons like the plague.

Avoiding the leading wagons is not a scumtell at this stage of the game, and I didn't find any of the vote leaders all that scummy at the time you made the accusation. Nero Cain I can get on, though.

StrangerCoug uses weak attacks on everybody.

Demonstrate.

and yeah his latest votes on Doomyoshi. nice one there StrangerCoug.

Unless DoomYoshi is masons with you or you have an innocent on you, my voting DoomYoshi is not a tell.

TL;DR: Sorry. Try again.

wow. I don't even need to read the last few pages to tell you that v2v is town. This wagon is fast as fuck.

I'd really, really love to know where this "all fast wagons are scummy" fallacy came from so I can choke the person responsible.
You

do

need to read, because this is Mafia. It is about reading people, and that requires you to read posts. Pages of them sometimes. I know, it's HORRIBLE.

oh stop rushing me scum.

This is an awfully ironic exchange, Nero Cain.

This doesn't even make sense. Whats ironic about it?[/quote]
Never mind—I managed to get myself mixed up.

Coug, am I supposed to respond to your case against me? It was a joke, taken the wrong way... what do you mean going for the easy lynch? I was second on the vijay wagon, (technically first, but nocmen had already unvoted but is now back). What makes you think that vijay is town.

The vote is cheap, which is what I mean by "going for the easy lynch". And I already answered why vijay2vasandani is town: I believe him to have townslipped by forgetting that the Mafia can choose which defendant goes to whom, which is something I expect the Mafia to remember.

[Nocmen]

Holy crap, scum chooses where defendants go? What the fuck. Am I reading the same thing? Okay, fuck this. I'm going to reread tonight and then see what I think.

So you pretty much just admitted you haven't been reading much of this game at all. But again, as mentioned right in the previous post , scum would know that. So I'm tempted to say youre town for this...

??? nocmen wasnt in jury duty

He wasn't? DERP ME!!! On the bright side it free's up that vote.

unvote:Nocmen
vote:KOC

[/quote]

Wait, what crazy mistake had you made?

Wrathchild: Do you feel that I am scummy for the same thing, thinking Arugula was town late in the day? I know for me, it was just a gut feeling, and no one would have believed me anyways, just would have looked bad to say that you hammered a third townie.

[Nocmen]

Whoops, messed up the quote tag. That's not a vote mod. But this is:

Unvote: vijay
Vote: Shadow

Nero has a point commenting on the wagon in 953.

[Nero Cain]

??? nocmen wasnt in jury duty

He wasn't? DERP ME!!! On the bright side it free's up that vote.

unvote:Nocmen
vote:KOC

Wait, what crazy mistake had you made?

I had thought you were on the jury. You said earlier today that you thought Arg was town. I wrongly thought you were on the jury and therefore were scummy when you did not defend Arg in the jury QT.

[Mastermind of Sin]

are we just repeating the same discussion I had with MOS 5 pages ago?

Yea basically WrathChild scum felt like it was ok to ignore things going on in the thread until they directly threatened him. So now he's rehashing the exact same argument that just happened.

Also, of his 6 "arguments" against Arugula, the strongest one he has is #5, which he claims is his weakest. Lulz, so bad.

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

D3f3nd3r (7): Nocmen, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Nocmen, Mastermind of Sin, Mastermind of Sin, Ser Panda

Knight of Cydonia (6): WrathChild, WrathChild, TheShadow, Nero Cain, Axelrod, Nero Cain
Nero Cain (6): Teleporting Speed Hippos, guille2015, guille2015, Mastermind of Sin, TheShadow, TheShadow
vijay2vasandani (5): DoomYoshi, DCLXVI, Knight of Cydonia, DoomYoshi, guille2015
TheShadow (5): Quilford, Quilford, DCLXVI, DCLXVI, Nocmen
Nocmen (3): D3f3nd3r, Quilford, vijay2vasandani
WrathChild (3): StrangerCoug, Knight of Cydonia, Knight of Cydonia
StrangerCoug (2): Ser Panda, Nero Cain
Axelrod (2): vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani
DoomYoshi (2): StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug
whispersilk (1): Ser Panda
Mastermind of Sin (1): Axelrod
guille2015 (1): DoomYoshi

13

votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has

3

votes.
With

19

alive, it's

10

to hammer.
There are

57

votes in play,

0

of which are frozen, leaving

57

votes active.

Deadline is August 31st, noon CEST.

[Gooner]

I'm back.

[Gooner]

I've read through the thread and I think I have found a scum

MOS today comes into the thread saying that the Arugula lynch was stupid. However he did not mention anything like this yesterday. It seems to me like a scum who thought that he had held a position yesterday and then mistakenly said it in the thread. I also can find no town motivation for not saying that he disagreed with the Arugula wagon yesterday. It makes no sense to me.
VOTE: MOS
VOTE: MOS

Now then onto my other vote. I agree with the wagon on vijay. He says that there is a minimal chance that KOC's reveal is a scum gambit and then votes for him for something which there is a minimal chance is true.
VOTE: vijay2vasandani

[Quilford]

UNVOTE: Nocmen
VOTE: Sir Bastion

His comments in the jury QT are scummy and

I thought we were not allowed copy/paste the qt here?

is not a town reaction to said QT being outed.

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

D3f3nd3r (7): Nocmen, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Nocmen, Mastermind of Sin, Mastermind of Sin, Ser Panda

Knight of Cydonia (6): WrathChild, WrathChild, TheShadow, Nero Cain, Axelrod, Nero Cain
Nero Cain (6): Teleporting Speed Hippos, guille2015, guille2015, Mastermind of Sin, TheShadow, TheShadow
vijay2vasandani (6): DoomYoshi, DCLXVI, Knight of Cydonia, DoomYoshi, guille2015, Gooner
TheShadow (5): Quilford, Quilford, DCLXVI, DCLXVI, Nocmen
WrathChild (3): StrangerCoug, Knight of Cydonia, Knight of Cydonia
Mastermind of Sin (3): Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner
Nocmen (2): D3f3nd3r, vijay2vasandani
StrangerCoug (2): Ser Panda, Nero Cain
Axelrod (2): vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani
DoomYoshi (2): StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug
whispersilk (1): Ser Panda
guille2015 (1): DoomYoshi
Sir Bastion (1): Quilford

10

votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has

3

votes.
With

19

alive, it's

10

to hammer.
There are

57

votes in play,

0

of which are frozen, leaving

57

votes active.

Deadline is August 31st, noon CEST.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I've read through the thread and I think I have found a scum

MOS today comes into the thread saying that the Arugula lynch was stupid. However he did not mention anything like this yesterday. It seems to me like a scum who thought that he had held a position yesterday and then mistakenly said it in the thread. I also can find no town motivation for not saying that he disagreed with the Arugula wagon yesterday. It makes no sense to me.
VOTE: MOS
VOTE: MOS

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

UNVOTE: Nocmen
VOTE: Sir Bastion

His comments in the jury QT are scummy and

I thought we were not allowed copy/paste the qt here?

is not a town reaction to said QT being outed.

This is a null reaction at best. It's a clarification of the rules, and honestly I thought the same thing in my head when it was posted.

[DoomYoshi]

yoshi is all like "well he might be scum"

Actually, that was you who said that. You still haven't provided a valid reason btw.
So far, the only reasons I have heard for his town is either that the wagon is fast (which is a BS reason) and also that he wouldn't misunderstand info as mafia. This second reason is slightly more convincing, but is also wrong. If vijay is a bad town player, he will probably also be a bad scum player; gooner didn't show up for the jury QT - maybe v2v didn't understand or didn't show up to the scum QT? Finally, it could be v2v trying to set himself up the WIFOM defense (mafia wouldn't misunderstand mafia mechanics is a WIFOM argument).