WWE Attitude Era 2.0 Game over nWo'd

[I Am Innocent]

Ok, I'm back from VLA. I need to do a careful re-read, but my initial skim makes me still like an Elmo or Lance or Admiral lynch. Yes, I still want to lynch Elmo's slot even with a replacement coming. More later.

What about the Admiral to you find scummy?

[Yates]

Oh I Am Innocent... You poor misguided scum.

Per the 4 underline statements above, can you tell me why your story is all of sudden switching?

I mean, if you're going to misquote me and edit out the context in an attempt to shed suspicion off yourself and on to me at least be cool about it.

Also, if your vote is on CJ, I want to know if you find him scummy or at this point it is a policy lynch?

What's the difference?

Given the flip, this question looks anti-WWE.

Anyway, that's what I'm thinking so I am approaching it thinking that

I can find 1 or 2 scum off the CJ wagon

since even in multiball teammates likely don't want to take too many actions together in order to avoid associative tells.

I'd still be ok with a DavidX lynch, tbh, but

he didn't take an active role in attempting to stop the CJ lynch and you [IAI] did.

That's what ultimately nudges you ahead of him in my scum list early this morning.

See? I can underline stuff, too. Just, the stuff *I* underlined was the pertinent information you decided to leave out of your poorly crafted editorial.

So let's summarize:
1. You intentionally edited out context - which is scummy in and of itself.
2. Your argument about my scumminess seems to be hinging on the fact you think I somehow changed my story about what made you scummy. Did my story change in ANY WAY?
. 2a. Do I think you defended your scum mate? Yes [unchanged]
. 2b. Do I think I can find scum off the Randy Orton wagon? Yes [unchanged]
. 2c. Do I think you were scummy because of your CJ question? Yes [unchanged - from my post 481]
3. Do you see how 2b and 2c are essentially saying the same thing as what pidgey is accusing you of? [unknown]

Underlined is exactly what I would have expected from a scummate of CJ avoiding his wagon.

lol wifom. Yeah, you can hang and I will sleep well at night.

Conclusion: My story is consistent and your attempt to leave out the important information in an attempt to show an inconsistency is ill-conceived at best and scummy at worst. To paraphrase you, "[this] is exactly what I would have expected from a scummate of CJ." I don't even know what you were trying to do there, tbh. Were you somehow trying to make yourself look LESS suspicious? If so, that was an epic fail.

[Sawyer]

Like I said yesterday, PM is still guilty of everything CJ was. Let's take a look at him in ISO:

Okay, sorry for the lack of speaking. I will re-read and look over some notes.

Wow. So much. I might IsO someone if I have to.

^Aside from never giving us any indication that he has scumhunted, he also never gives the reasons for his reads until Pappums had to ask him for them... repeatedly, before PM finally gave them.

PM never showed any interest in the CJ wagon at all until I made the suggestion that we lynch PM instead and these were his reactions immediately following:

I am not the best Day 1 Lynch. CJMiller is at this point.

VOTE: CJMiller

I legitimately think he's the best lynch. He might be Mafia.

^Where were his reasons for thinking CJ would've been the best lynch? You'd think his reasons would be obvious, but considering he never even acknowledged CJ (aside from voting IS immediately after CJ did), it's questionable.

And his reasons for thinking Internet Stranger is scum:

Internet Stranger was lurking for most of the game as well as saying he didn't like the CJ wagon which, guess what? Was a Scum lynch.

Not that I disagree with his reasoning, but this post reeks of hypocrisy. Like I said, you didn't even acknowledge CJ until I suggested we lynch you, then all of a sudden CJ is the best lynch.

To finish it off:

Insiders, huh? Interesting. Does that mean there are Outsiders as well? If there are, we might as well double our scum hunting powers.

While I do agree with the possibility of two scum teams (it seems to be common in Large games), combined with all of the above this post makes me think you're scum, but not of the same team as CJ.

----

I was hoping Internet Stranger would've contributed by now, but looking at his ISO it doesn't look like it's gonna happen. Out of his 6 posts in this 22 page game, here's 3 of them:

There should be enough info out there to maybe incriminate one scum.

I will start doing ISO's and find me one tomorrow.

This game is so brutal to read. Youre all so mostly useless. Its a clash of egos. Then again, I guess that fits in with the topic well, doesnt it. This wagon reeks of stupidity and opportunism.

Im going to just ISO those players on the wagon and look for a scum in there instead.

I like this post. Looking for the bussing scum is the right move at the moment. The PMY, Nexus and Lance spots are the most suspicious of the wagon.

I need to do ISO's on those three when I can.

Those people voting for me right now are either opportunistic scum or idiots.

At first a few people were saying it was his meta to not get involved right away, but now Pidgey and TGG are saying he's normally on the prowl by now and it's not like his town play. He continually implies he'll be caught up with something to say, yet he never is. All he ever says is that he'll ISO people and that's the last of it... until he again says he's gonna ISO.

Yeah, the people that are voting for you are clearly idiots. The last guy we lynched was lynched for not contributing at all and he was scum. Maybe you're not so different...

----

Which begs the question, Sawyer: Any plans to move your vote to PMysterious since his lynch was your idea in the first place? Don't worry, I'm sure you'll find some other silly reason to move your vote back over to me eventually.

If you still want an answer to this, I was only gonna move my vote to PM if people agreed with me. They were both guilty of the same things, but CJ's lynch caused a division among town (the stances being that he could've been scum or an easy mislynch for scum). My proposal was an attempt to help both those groups to come to an agreement since no progress was being made on that wagon.

BTW, you're right. You've given me plenty of other reasons to bring my vote back to you. While I don't agree with Nexus' "insincere" comment (just seems like a ridiculous to base a vote on), I do think Thad's posts 499 and 504 are right on the money.

Your reluctance to vote CJ, now knowing that he was scum, only makes me that much more confident in my vote.

Vote: Lance

Whether it's you or PM today, I'll be happy.

[SnakePlissken]

Your post says that you have scumreads on Prana and Elmo's slots, both who have dropped out.

Therefore, I took from your post that you believe they are scum, in part due to the fact they have flaked out.

So, where exactly am I misrepping you?

Because if you carrying on reading past that statement you will see that I said that I do not disbelieve their reasons, but that it's easier to replace out if your scum in my experience on here. Ergo conventionally ignoring that part of the statement is mis repping.

[pappums rat]

Sawyer's #527 made some good points about PMysterious, but I would still prefer a Lance lynch at this point. PMysterious is a good vig target though, he is completely useless but I dont want to waste a lynch on him at this point.

I dont like TGG going after IS, he has lurked hardcore but I dont think he has done anything scummy to this point. He should start giving more reads and actually play the game though.

[Lance]

Well no, you were being insincere.

But sure, cover up your OMGUS.

If calling my vote an OMGUS makes you feel better, you go right ahead, sunshine. It's easier than admitting that your case against me is weak, right?

The key is, you seemed very reluctant when you placed that vote, but then today acted like you masterminded the wagon from the beginning.

Masterminded? *snrk*

Well, okay, that's not exactly what I was going for, but if you want to give me that much credit, I won't complain.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll find some other silly reason to move your vote back over to me eventually.

BTW, you're right. You've given me plenty of other reasons to bring my vote back to you.

So you admit that you're currently voting for me for silly reasons.

Your reluctance to vote CJ, now knowing that he was scum, only makes me that much more confident in my vote.

Is everyone suffering from collective amnesia or what? I did want to lynch CJ Miller. The only reason there was "reluctance" to switch my vote over to him is because I wanted you dead more. Go back to day one and read through it again if you don't believe me. It would be lovely if the people who want to lynch me looked at the facts more closely instead of believing all these baseless rumors that I didn't want to lynch CJ Miller.

Lance's response to the pressure he has been under and ThAd's #504 make me

Unvote

Vote: Lance

Sawyer's #527 made some good points about PMysterious, but I would still prefer a Lance lynch at this point.

Could you elaborate a bit more on why you're voting for me, please? All I see is you parroting ThAdmiral and making a vague statement about how you don't like my posts. What, specifically, have I been saying that you don't like?

But the way you were acting was less "avoiding being lynched" and more "avoiding ANY suspicion if possible".

And I've been doing

such

a great job of it, haven't I?

In a way yes. More so because of what mindset you would need to be in to think like you said above. I figure a normal town member would be more than happy to simply express themselves the way they feel without worrying about how it is perceived. Your sentiments (particularly the "covering my butt in case people think..." stuff) indicate that this is primarily what you are worried about. That in turn indicates a scum mentality.

Like I told forehead7 earlier, I know I'm not acting the way that "normal Town" acts, but I don't see how that makes me Scum by default. There are possibilities here that I don't think you're considering. Perhaps I'm just paranoid and cautious by nature. Perhaps I'm playing it extra safe because I know that my lynch will affect more than just me. Perhaps I just plain suck at this game.

I want you to mull this over: Are you suspicious of my alignment or are you suspicious of my play style? Are you certain that your reasons for voting me cannot be attributed to me just being a paranoid/cautious/sucky Mafia player?

Fruthermore I really dislike the (apparently false) softclaim in that post you pointed out. I'd actually forgotten about that so thanks for reminding me!

Oh, by all means, keep that in the back of your mind. I'm not going to hide it at all. The way things are going, we're going to be revisiting that "softclaim" sooner rather than later.

[Yates]

Guys, I Am Innocent needs rope. Can we get back to this cock fight tomorrow?

Also:

@Mod: I will be V/LA from tomorrow evening until September 3. Duty calls and I will likely have no access to internet the entire time though I will do what I can.

[ThAdmiral]

Like I told forehead7 earlier, I know I'm not acting the way that "normal Town" acts, but I don't see how that makes me Scum by default. There are possibilities here that I don't think you're considering. Perhaps I'm just paranoid and cautious by nature. Perhaps I'm playing it extra safe because I know that my lynch will affect more than just me. Perhaps I just plain suck at this game.

I want you to mull this over: Are you suspicious of my alignment or are you suspicious of my play style? Are you certain that your reasons for voting me cannot be attributed to me just being a paranoid/cautious/sucky Mafia player?

But then we would be forced to second guess everything we think about anyone, give allowances for all sorts of behaviour, and then what would be the point of it all?

[Nexus]

Yet my case is getting your back up enough for you to start being a snarky arsehole.

I've been nothing but nice to you, but if you start being condescending, I will respond in kind, and I will win.

This game is becoming hella stagnant. Too many people coasting and doing fuck all.

[Lance]

Yet my case is getting your back up enough for you to start being a snarky arsehole.

I've been nothing but nice to you, but if you start being condescending, I will respond in kind, and I will win.

Of the five votes that are currently on me, yours is the weakest and you know it. If you're going to resort to petty name-calling and childish insults just to avoid facing this reality, you can count me out. I'm not going to stoop to that level. Have fun trying to "win" a fight that doesn't exist, though.

Also, my snark is part of my charm, thank you very much.

[I Am Innocent]

I kinda prefer a lynch on IaI and i kinda think he might be from the OPPOSITE team of CJ. It looked like asking if people were voting CJ more for policy or for scummyness was a way to set up his votes for the next day.

vote: IaI

Yup. That's the initial vibe I got from him too and why I feel pretty good about my vote right now.

Yates, I read your other post and still have no idea what "the initial vibe I got from him too" represents here.

Please take exact words from his quote, because I still don't see anything you agreed with other than "I kinda prefer a lynch on IaI"

And what is your thoughts on Lance?

[I Am Innocent]

Lance, what is your thoughts on Yates?

[Yates]

Yates, I read your other post and still have no idea what "the initial vibe I got from him too" represents here.

Please take exact words from his quote, because I still don't see anything you agreed with other than "I kinda prefer a lynch on IaI"

I don't need to use exact words when I get the gist of his suspicion on you. However, I have already quoted exact words and will do so again to assuage any concerns you may have about this nonsensical argument:

1. i kinda think he might be from the OPPOSITE team of CJ

2. asking if people were voting CJ more for policy or for scummyness was a way to set up his votes for the next day.

MATCHING GAME TIME!!

1. Anyway, that's what I'm thinking so I am approaching it thinking that I can find 1 or 2 scum off the CJ wagon since even in multiball teammates likely don't want to take too many actions together in order to avoid associative tells...

Also, if your vote is on CJ, I want to know if you find him scummy or at this point it is a policy lynch?

2. What's the difference? Given the flip, this question looks anti-WWE.

[Yates]

And what is your thoughts on Lance?

I can't tell if Lance is defensive Town or bad scum. Right now I'm leaning defensive Town.

[WrathChild]

Just out of curiosity, are we going to give Elmo's replacement the day-pass or can that slot still be on the lynch table? Unlike, snake, who's "scum-replace out" theory sucks, I'd rather lynch Elmo based on his play up until the replace out.

[WrathChild]

Well he won't get shot if he's scum now would he? Unless there were more than one group of scum.

Oopsie, Multi-Ball Slip?

[jasonT1981]

David X is V/LA & Prods go out after dinner!

[WrathChild]

BTW aren't we meant to be posting move set to vote? i.e.

Powerbomb

Jasont1981? Much more fun that way.

Coincidence?

[SnakePlissken]

WC It doesn't suck it's a theory tis all. Until it is proven otherwise Im happy to look at that. IS has still not really dropped into play which is starting to cause concern for me.

I'm getting massive town vibes from ThAdmiral and I've been pretty good with spotting scum/town ThAd of late.

Nexus, is usual Nexus, but not scum aggressive Nexus currently so Im happy with him for today. I stand by my reservations on the replace outs being scum slots, but I'm also willing to wait on the replacements content (In Elmos case anyway) before committing to a vote.

Pidgey, I am almost swayed by his IAI arguement with TGG, but the jury's still out on both of them as to alignment. An IAI lynch should help that.

Wrath Child doesn't like my theory but is interested in lynching Elmo. has made some good points during the game thus far and the sudden withdraw on the vote on Inte could be concieved as a scum bus to put distance between the two. However as Inte turned out to be VT, WC also gets a pass today.

Kublai Khan/PeregrineV KK made one post, PV V/LAd until the 13th and still isn't back, however had suspicions on Prana, with fall in line with my thoughts. Until we get more from him this is a null.

PMysterious was in the running for day 1 lynch. So far today has acted like newbie/gloating scum team. Also has thus far today managed to sail under the radar I think some interest needs to be taken here.

Yates I like Yates. I have problems reading him at all and Ive modded his game play as well, so unless someone can come up with a solid case Im going to find it hard to come up with reasoning to vote for him.

DavidX Another person who disappeared on V/LA over 10 days ago so it's difficult to make any judgement here at all. Has his sights set on Pidgey.

Pappums Rat one of my top town reads, has been actively scum hunting, votes on CJ Miller, Elmo & currently Lance. This is a town slot to me currently

PranaDevil/Platinum Shadow Only had a chance to to post once since replacing in. Prana was floating on my scumdar for a while, will watch and see what comes next.

Elmo TeH AzN accused PM of a bad vote on CJ Miller when we almost at lynch then Mis read the hammer and thought he'd hammered when he hadn't. This reeks of bussing scum. Has now replaced out. I would like to vote Elmo as he fits in my replacing out as scum is easy theory, but I will wait on the replacement.

I Am Innocent I am happy this is a town slot. Following ThAds lead on the Lance Wagon.

Sawyer On the Lance wagon with reasoning that he didn't want on the CJ Miller wagon. Looks town to me currently.

Lance Wasn't too concerned on the apparent role fishing by Pidgey on day 1, the case on him is that he only voted on CJ who he had as number 2 choice was after a bit of pressure and it looks like a bus. Then came back from the overnight kills coming off as very insincere. Theres some mention of a soft claim which I seemed to have missed, but im 50/50 on Lance at the moment potentially he could be set for opportunist scum jumping on his wagon. Then again he might actually be scum and will be set up for a bus.

I'm going to wait out Elmo's replacement before I throw a vote down but currently I'm about here on reads:

Elmo
PM
Then those who haven't posted much

[SnakePlissken]

Well he won't get shot if he's scum now would he? Unless there were more than one group of scum.

Oopsie, Multi-Ball Slip?

Nope, a game this large there was always likely to be more than one killing faction. As for the choice of move, yes obviously it was, however that does start to look like someone trying far to hard to find something to pin on me. But Im OK with that.

[WrathChild]

Ok, going back over tomorrow I have a few new theories:

1. Wrathchild is an idiot:

I spent most of the day yesterday getting suspicious at the people that were pushing the CJM wagon with the justification of "Even if he's town it's ok". So here's the end day vote count where CJM-Scum was lynched:

CJMiller 11 - SnakePlissken,

forehead7

, pappums rat,

ThAdmiral

, PMysterious,

Nexus

,

Lance

, sawyer, Elmo,

pidgey

,

Nerodoesthesplits

Nero says:

We should always be trying to lynch scum, Forehead. You are right though that he's just a big distraction to the game and I think town would win more games if we spent the first few days lynching distracting players.

vote:CJ

Forehead Says:

@All, when scum claim D1, have you ever seen them claim Vanilla Town? Also, if your vote is on CJ, I want to know if you find him scummy or at this point it is a policy lynch?

His play is scummy (ie avoiding questions, not posting properly etc), the obviousness is troubling but he has given us no reasons to even bother trying to save him.

And as I've stated, he cannot be alive when we start to get into the stages where we need scum deaths.

CJMiller does not feel like a better wagon to me, feels like the easy mislynch target of the day actually. Elmo's is still a possibility, esp if he continues to fail to produce scum reads for me.

I agree that CJ is or is playing like a weak player. But being and easy player to wagon =//= town. But he's not even that cloose to a lynch.

Pretty much this. He doesn't seem to even be bothering to try and make himself look town. If his second, third or fourth posts had any sort of scumhunting then there might be the potential for him to actually be useful in the future days but at this point it looks unlikely. (whereas pretty much everyone else is at least posting reasons for their actions which can lead to further town/scum reads).

He's a good candidate as it doesn't look like he'll make any posts with content so we can read him and for him to be alive when it gets to the stage where we need to hit scum or risk either losing/going into LyLo then it'd be pretty disastrous.

Either we lynch him or the vig shoots him (I only put the secondary option in there incase we don't lynch him today).

Pidgey Says:

Whoever asked, for me cj is half policy half i really think he is scummy. It might be a little omgus because he voted me. CJ no offense but you should probably reconsider your playstyle town or scum, there is no way you are enjoying the game the way you play.

Vote cjmillar

If he flips town, no one should feel bad.

The Admiral Says:

vote CJM

Let's just lynch this piece of shit. He's doing my bastarding head in.

This basically. I don't even understand why people like this even play mafia if they're going to be useless. His behaviour doesn't make sense as town OR mafia, but I don't care, he deserves to die.

Nexus Says:

I am not the best Day 1 Lynch. CJMiller is at this point.

VOTE: CJMiller

@jasonT1981:

My vote is on CJMiller and Sawyer's vote is still on me.

Which begs the question, Sawyer: Any plans to move your vote to PMysterious since his lynch was your idea in the first place? Don't worry, I'm sure you'll find some other silly reason to move your vote back over to me eventually.

PMysterious, are you voting for CJ Miller just to save yourself or because you legitimately think he's the best lynch today?

Yeah, that's worse. You voted CJ because people pointed out that you were scummy for not doing so.

So I'm scummy for not putting my vote on CJ Miller, but I'm also scummy when I

do

put my vote on CJ Miller? I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I'm going to be vilified either way, then what does it matter?

I legitimately think he's the best lynch. He might be Mafia.

CJM is just a bad player. He needs shooting in the face but lynching him is a fruitless exercise.

This game is doing my nut in. It isn't even a clash of egos, with the exception of about four people everyone else is fucking useless.

He probably isn't scum. I reckon CJM as scum wouldn't post AT ALL.

Like, retardscum tend to play even worse than CJM is playing now.

vote CJM

Let's just lynch this piece of shit. He's doing my bastarding head in.

Lance Says:

Agreed with forehead7. Regardless of whether CJ Miller is Town or Scum, keeping him around could be dangerous in the long run due to his eyebrow-raising voting habits. If he keeps it up, I might have to offer my support as well.

These type of stances make me pretty confident in saying that the above (Admiral, Lance, Nero, Pidgey, Nexus and Forehead) are NOT "insiders" mafia. If an Insider was going to bus CJM, they would do it with confidence. Now that Multiball has been speculated, it does not eliminate the possibility of any of the above are on another scum team.

2. Wrathchild is getting smart with us:

Based on my conclusion above that implies that we could be looking for bussing Insiders among this group:

CJMiller 11 -

SnakePlissken

,

forehead7

, pappums rat,

ThAdmiral

,

PMysterious

,

Nexus

,

Lance

, sawyer,

Elmo

,

pidgey

,

Nerodoesthesplits

Snake Says:

On day 1 everyone starts off as townand only actions and comments make me think otherwise, the other problem is on day one everyone is very cagey as no-one wants to be the day one lynch with the exception of CJ Miller who seems to be doing everything to line himself up.. So while Elmo is being outright scummy, he's not being outright towns either thus, I'm not convinced either way yet.

@Nexus that should have read isn't. Im not committing to anything currently because it's too early in the game to be sure of my current read of the game. as this day movies on the more I will be more commited with my comments. Grasping a bit there to get a reaction Mr Nexus. The only thing I am sure of is my vote on CJ Miller currently.

PMS Says:

I am not the best Day 1 Lynch. CJMiller is at this point.

VOTE: CJMiller

@jasonT1981:

My vote is on CJMiller and Sawyer's vote is still on me.

Which begs the question, Sawyer: Any plans to move your vote to PMysterious since his lynch was your idea in the first place? Don't worry, I'm sure you'll find some other silly reason to move your vote back over to me eventually.

PMysterious, are you voting for CJ Miller just to save yourself or because you legitimately think he's the best lynch today?

Yeah, that's worse. You voted CJ because people pointed out that you were scummy for not doing so.

So I'm scummy for not putting my vote on CJ Miller, but I'm also scummy when I

do

put my vote on CJ Miller? I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I'm going to be vilified either way, then what does it matter?

I legitimately think he's the best lynch. He might be Mafia.

Like some person said, I shall post my reads.

ThAdmiral

Null

pidgey

Maybe Scum

SnakePlissken-

Null

WrathChild-

Null

PeregrineV

Town

PMysterious

Town

Yates-

Null

Nerodoesthesplits

Town

forehead7-

Null

DavidX

Null

Pappums Rat

Town

PranaDevil-

Null

The Gobbledy Gooker-

Null

Elmo TeH AzN-

Null

I Am Innocent-

Null

Nexus [color=#0000F]Town[/color]
Internet Stranger

Maybe Scum

Sawyer [color=#0000F]Town[/color]
inte-

Null

Lance-

Null

CJ Miller

Scum

That's pretty my all I have. Reasons will come later.

Elmo Says:

I am not the best Day 1 Lynch. CJMiller is at this point.

VOTE: CJMiller

Bad vote is bad.

Explain why your not the best lynch today?

========[HAMMA TIME!]

Oh and for my reads. Why do you need a full list about everyone in this game?
CJ & Pm are scum.
Poppums is obv town currently

VOTE: CJMILLER

Now looking at these players stances on CJM-Scum I view them in ascending order of scumminess. Snake's can be interpreted as confidence, but it's not outright. PMS's stance seems pretty darn confident from the get go and I know he's not good enough of a player to justify that level of confidence. BUT DAMN! Look at Elmo's admission to guilt. He goes from saying the CJM vote is bad to hammering him in a record TWO ISO posts (3 RL days, or 40 overall posts). Not only that, it was a mishammer, which implies he was rushing to do so to attempt to grab any town-cred he might.

This is why Elmo must die.

[WrathChild]

Crud, I had a quote miss on Post 545 I have quotes from PMS in section one under Nexus. Please ignore the PMS quotes in the Wrathchild is an Idiot Section for Nexus. They are where they belong in the Wrathchild is getting smart with us section.

[SnakePlissken]

I'm curious, have you ever seen anyone bus from slot one on a vote? How can that even be a bus? What kind of stupid strategy would it be to bus from slot one to try and cause one of your own team to die from the outset?

[WrathChild]

I'm curious, have you ever seen anyone bus from slot one on a vote? How can that even be a bus? What kind of stupid strategy would it be to bus from slot one to try and cause one of your own team to die from the outset?

Are you referring to yourself? I often see scum RVS vote their scum buddies and if the heat stays on them, they don't move it and claim the vote as legit.

[SnakePlissken]

I wasn't I was asking as a general question. My vote was never declared as RVS at any point. And when I play as scum i certainly don't bus early as I see that as playing against your win condition, If I have to bus a Scum partner I leave it late usually.