Judge, Jury, and Executioner - Over

[N]

Found them.

And I was going to save this for L-1, but with the double-vote system I'm in danger of being hammered at L-2.

RoleClaim: Bloodhound

I can target someone at night, and am told if they were named Executioner that night.

I have an ability that can, under certain circumstances, identify who was appointed to be the Executioner in a given night. My role is NOT, I repeat, NOT, the same as what Shadow claimed. It works differently. How I am not saying because I want the scum to always be uncertain whether they are at risk or not.

I would say that it is not impossible for Shadow's role to exist in addition to my role in this game. But I also still believe it is very possible Shadow has completely made his role up, or got given it as some kind of "safe" claim. His play thusfar is what's led me to vote him, and I've still seen nothing that would make me want to unvote. So there's that.

Out of the two, I find Axel's more believable, but am interested to hear more. I'm a bit confused as to why Shadow's would have that title - I can't see how it fits with the flavour or how the role actually functions.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Fuck that. If Judge or Jury get him, let him live, make sure he follows through on asking to be replaced, and have someone sensible and willing to play in this slot. Shadow, welcome to my blacklist after this game.

Shadow is an alt though

Fucksake, I can't keep track of all these asshats making alts to get around my ignorance.

[DCLXVI]

The selfquick hammer is much more likely to come from scum I just can't see how town would do that, he's definitely on my blacklist regardless of the flip. However, he needs to die tonight, and if he flips scum whoever was calling for a replacement looked at next.

Anyway, realize went crazy on me the last few days. (I'm technically still v/la but I had intended to post some.) I should post tonight.

[Knight of Cydonia]

The selfquick hammer is much more likely to come from scum I just can't see how town would do that, he's definitely on my blacklist regardless of the flip. However, he needs to die tonight, and

if he flips scum whoever was calling for a replacement looked at next.

Wanting players in your game who are actually taking part and not lurking for the first 2 days is not a scumtell. Wanting to play good games of Mafia with an involved playerlist is not a scumtell.

[Ser Panda]

Actually, agree. Shadow needs death. If the jury or judge get him, please kill him.

I think he's trying to be cheeky so he doesn't die tonight, by making it look like he is frustrated, and that if he lives he will seek a replacement, etc.

He really does not put himself in any danger by hammering himself and making himself look like a VI so he gets off the hook, and then his replacement will be obv town because the previous person was a VI.

Besides, his claim is still sketchy.

[DCLXVI]

I'm talking about players who asked for that after he self-hammered. In other words, after he claimed scum. I'm not saying that (asking for a replacement) is a scumtell, but if he flips scum we should look and see if they have any other ties to him. I can't see how that would be bad.

[Ser Panda]

The scum know I'm town and are using my lousy play and lurking to push a town PR hammer they can send to the executioner for death.

I apologize to everyone for being so useless. I understand the reasons for the "can we force replace this guy" discussion after my last post. I will do my best to be helpful the rest of the day.

If I somehow survive night I will personally request replacement.

See, things like this are just desperate and weak.

This is the second time he's tried to pull this move.

The first with his claim that saved him for being lynched.

And now he's trying to pull the "I'm a VI" card.

[WrathChild]

Can someone please explain to me why in hell we aren't lynching KoC? You do know he MUST be judged. He killed OBV TOWN Thor and is claiming the mod failed or he was sabotaged. The Mod has not come in to say he made a mistake, and KoC, as far as I know, KoC has made no effort to clarify this with the Mod, which would have been the first thing I did. The bottom line is that KoC can NOT go through this game not going through the judicial system at some point, it may as well be now. He will be judged. As I've stated before, I think that with the threat of AT LEAST two potential claimed roles, the scum executioner felt it was better to claim some sort of shenanigans than to not claim at all.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Can someone please explain to me why in hell we aren't lynching KoC? You do know he MUST be judged. He killed OBV TOWN Thor and is claiming the mod failed or he was sabotaged. The Mod has not come in to say he made a mistake, and KoC, as far as I know, KoC has made no effort to clarify this with the Mod, which would have been the first thing I did. The bottom line is that KoC can NOT go through this game not going through the judicial system at some point, it may as well be now. He will be judged. As I've stated before, I think that with the threat of AT LEAST two potential claimed roles, the scum executioner felt it was better to claim some sort of shenanigans than to not claim at all.

a) I agreed with you on Thor being obv-town at the end of Day 1 as you would see if you read the thread
b) I've made it clear SEVERAL times that you are the only person who thinks I'm claiming mod-error (because I'm not)
c) Your whole case is based on the fact that, despite having two claimed pro-town PRs, you are somehow 100% certain that scum have absolutely nothing in the way of PRs or that for some reason I chose to play a massive, incredibly risky gambit as scum for no reason

It's kind of obvious at this point that you and/or Nero are desperately trying to salvage this play you've made against me D1 and it's getting fucking tiresome.

[WrathChild]

I'm not the one afraid of being judged, you are. Don't you understand what I'm saying? You have to answer for it. If I sent in the Pardon order for Thor and he turned up dead, the FIRST person I would point a finger at is the Mod. The thought has never crossed your mind and you seem content confirming that either A) You were the target of some malicious act or B) You actually executed Thor intentionally.

Your imagined role that would cause a pardon to turn in to an execution seems extremely far fetched. What would the point of giving some one a choice be if they never actually had a choice in the first place?

Whatever, you may be absolutely right, maybe someone screwed with you, but your response to it has not convinced me. On top of that, you absolutely can NOT live till end game. There is no way we can go into LyLo with a strike against you like this even if you are town. You need to answer for your crime. If I were in your shoes I would have self-voted by now.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm not the one afraid of being judged, you are. Don't you understand what I'm saying? You have to answer for it.

If I sent in the Pardon order for Thor and he turned up dead, the FIRST person I would point a finger at is the Mod.

The thought has never crossed your mind and you seem content confirming that either A) You were the target of some malicious act or B) You actually executed Thor intentionally.

Your imagined role that would cause a pardon to turn in to an execution seems extremely far fetched. What would the point of giving some one a choice be if they never actually had a choice in the first place?

Whatever, you may be absolutely right, maybe someone screwed with you, but your response to it has not convinced me. On top of that, you absolutely can NOT live till end game. There is no way we can go into LyLo with a strike against you like this even if you are town. You need to answer for your crime. If I were in your shoes I would have self-voted by now.

Emphasis mine. The first thing you would do is go to the Mod? I'm fairly sure that IceGuy is a competent enough mod to not make that kind of catastrophic mistake in a game, especially one where the "lynched" player has to send a statement and then go through another judgement process. The thought hasn't crossed my mind because I don't assume everyone is an idiot instantly, but wait until they give me a reason. Like you have. Your whole initial vote was based on me "claiming mod-error" (something I didn't do)

...I'm really, really fucking confused now.
I was made Executioner last night, and I was given Thor. I've PM'd IceGuy to ask if I can post his statement in thread.
But... I chose to pardon him, so I have no idea why the fuck he's dead.

VOTE: Knight
VOTE: Knight

This pending a statement from Iceguy.

My first reaction to this is a big giant BULL SHIT. Knight probably knew he was at risk of being nailed as the Executioner and decided it'd be best to claim it and yell mod-error.

I'm gonna read Knight's ISO and see what his stance on Thor was.

Your imagined role that would cause a pardon to turn in to an execution seems extremely far fetched. What would the point of giving some one a choice be if they never actually had a choice in the first place?

And having read this, I can see that you've actually paid no attention to ANY of the discussion about this today, or the fact that a game with town PRs but no scum PRs and an unreliable lynch mechanic would be unbalanced as hell. At this point, instead of making a case on me, you are sticking your fingers in your ears, and yelling LA LA SCUM SCUM LA LA HE CLAIMED MOD ERROR HONEST LA LA. Until you provide an actual case for me being scum that hasn't already been soundly refuted at least twice, I'm not going to pay you any more heed.

[Mastermind of Sin]

All right, I don't have any votes out at the moment, so no need to unvote.

A few things that have stuck out to me in the last few pages:

Results:

Scummier than KoC

, less than D3fender and Shadow. FoS: SC

Emphasis mine.

Knight of Cydonia (5): WrathChild, WrathChild,

Nero Cain

, Axelrod,

Nero Cain

...

Unvote: Defender, Vote: Nero Cain

Did I miss something here? Nocman and Nero Cain are different people, right?

Whoops. Thanks for the catch.

Unvote: Nero Cain, Vote: Defender

This stuff happened a long time before the day ended. I think.

When I went V/LA we didn't even know who the third candidate was going to be yet...

Thor and Argula were hammered pretty early on, weren't they? Let me check. Yep, hammer was by #172, and you didn't announce your V/LA until post #438

How does that have anything to do with my statement that we had multiple candidates vying relatively equally for the third spot when I went V/LA?

[WrathChild]

See what you're doing here? This is even more proof that you're scum. It's the town thing to do to admit you need to go to the defendants table, instead, you're getting all pissy about it.

Here's a case for you:
1. You claimed you pardoned Thor
2. Town-Thor was killed
3. You are lying.

THAT'S A FUCKING CASE!

There is no POSSIBLE WAY to excuse this. You need to go to the defendants pool. You are lying scum at worst and a huge liability at best. TOWN-KoC would recognize this and turn himself in. You are SCUM-KoC and are fighting feverently to avoid the Town thing to do.

There is so much logic flowing through this stance and you tell ME I'm sitting there with my ears plugged?!

[StrangerCoug]

Now ISO on SC:
The Sir Bastion vote in 261 is a stretch.
Calls no one else except Ser Panda out on the Thor wagon, even though he says he is directly sad that Thor got hammered, and think he is town.
Definitely has a few people he fails to mention in any of his posts.
Wrath votes are...the first mention he has of him.
Now insists with no doubt that KoC pardoned Thor. Hmmm, seems fishy.

Results: Scummier than KoC, less than D3fender and Shadow.

FoS: SC

I finally have something worth my time to defend! Yay!

...No. Seriously. You're actually making me think. And I'd have to look at my Sir Bastion vote again to get an idea of what I was thinking.

Ser Panda

WAS

the focus of my attention for awhile, but he's pretty much white noise anymore. I am aware that the hydra has expressed remorse for the Thor hammer, but other issues are at play here. I don't like the decreasing quality of his accusations toward me and he comes off as scum who knows I am his biggest critic and is trying to garner enough votes to silence me. That I have neither gone after anyone else on the Thor wagon despite thinking it scum-driven nor addressed everybody in the game is conceded, and my voting WrathChild on my first mention of him is simply because he wasn't of note until then.

I do believe that Knight of Cydonia pardoned Thor665, but the point I was trying to make with my defense of him was that people are jumping the gun claiming "OMG scum gambit" without looking at all the possibilities.

*Begin Frustrated Townie Moment*
UNVOTE: Nero Cain
UNVOTE: Nero Cain

VOTE: TheShadow
VOTE: TheShadow
*End Frustrated Townie Moment*

Take a good look at those on my wagon tomorrow after my flip confirms my role and town alignment. I am sure the one today is scum-driven.

My vote on Quilford was placed after a partial re-read, and noting that he has had 2 votes parked on me since day 2 began.
There has also been 2 votes on my wagon by DCL for most of the day.
I feel at least one is scum. The scum know I'm town and are using my lousy play and lurking to push a town PR hammer they can send to the executioner for death.

I apologize to everyone for being so useless. I understand the reasons for the "can we force replace this guy" discussion after my last post. I will do my best to be helpful the rest of the day.

If I somehow survive night I will personally request replacement.

...Are you suicidal? You are a claimed PR. If you are town, you are of more use to us alive and partaking in the game than either being dead or having ragequit.

This is your last chance to properly comply before I vote you.

You have 24 hours to post a case on maxwell that is more than just him bussing OhGodMyLife or you get my vote.

I actually can't see you threatening someone with your vote in the other town games of yours I read.

That does not invalidate that I actually intend to do what I threaten to do when people do not comply with my demands, and town makes threats too. I can't count the number of times I've seen town ask someone to "claim or die," for example.

[Mastermind of Sin]

See what you're doing here? This is even more proof that you're scum. It's the town thing to do to admit you need to go to the defendants table, instead, you're getting all pissy about it.

Here's a case for you:
1. You claimed you pardoned Thor
2. Town-Thor was killed
3. You are lying.

THAT'S A FUCKING CASE!

There is no POSSIBLE WAY to excuse this. You need to go to the defendants pool. You are lying scum at worst and a huge liability at best. TOWN-KoC would recognize this and turn himself in. You are SCUM-KoC and are fighting feverently to avoid the Town thing to do.

There is so much logic flowing through this stance and you tell ME I'm sitting there with my ears plugged?!

WrathChild, that makes ABSOLUTELY no sense whatsoever. Scum KoC would never have bothered claiming he was the executioner in the first place.

Also, town players should NEVER want themselves sent to the gallows, even if it means they might get pardoned. It's not at ALL protown to accept that you might die, when there are scum out there who could take your place and hopefully get executed.

WrathChild dies tomorrow. No exceptions.

Right now we need to finish off Nero Cain and Defender, though.

[Nocmen]

The scum know I'm town and are using my lousy play and lurking to push a town PR hammer they can send to the executioner for death.

I apologize to everyone for being so useless. I understand the reasons for the "can we force replace this guy" discussion after my last post. I will do my best to be helpful the rest of the day.

If I somehow survive night I will personally request replacement.

See, things like this are just desperate and weak.

This is the second time he's tried to pull this move.

The first with his claim that saved him for being lynched.

And now he's trying to pull the "I'm a VI" card.

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure no one in the town will let him stay alive tonight.

Can someone please explain to me why in hell we aren't lynching KoC? You do know he MUST be judged. He killed OBV TOWN Thor and is claiming the mod failed or he was sabotaged. The Mod has not come in to say he made a mistake, and KoC, as far as I know, KoC has made no effort to clarify this with the Mod, which would have been the first thing I did. The bottom line is that KoC can NOT go through this game not going through the judicial system at some point, it may as well be now. He will be judged. As I've stated before, I think that with the threat of AT LEAST two potential claimed roles, the scum executioner felt it was better to claim some sort of shenanigans than to not claim at all.

What about the possibility of decision manipulation from a PR? why are you so adamant that this has to be exactly what happened! KoC must be lying!

I do believe that Knight of Cydonia pardoned Thor665, but the point I was trying to make with my defense of him was that people are jumping the gun claiming "OMG scum gambit" without looking at all the possibilities.

Initially, I would think that this is a slip towards having known whether or not there was a scum ability that changed KoC's decision. And then I see Wrath's posts. Okay, I agree with you on this.

[Sir Bastion]

See what you're doing here? This is even more proof that you're scum. It's the town thing to do to admit you need to go to the defendants table, instead, you're getting all pissy about it.

You left out the bit where scum control who goes where, so there is no reason for a town player to risk scum sending them to the executioner so this whole notion is stupid.


TheShadow:

*Begin Frustrated Townie Moment*
UNVOTE: Nero Cain
UNVOTE: Nero Cain

VOTE: TheShadow
VOTE: TheShadow
*End Frustrated Townie Moment*

Take a good look at those on my wagon tomorrow after my flip confirms my role and town alignment. I am sure the one today is scum-driven.

I actually just barely see a possible town reason for the self hammer but I dont want to give you a reason for your own actions, so instead I'll ask a question which will tell me if we are on the same page:

How much of your wagon do you think was scum driven today?

My vote on Quilford was placed after a partial re-read, and noting that he has had 2 votes parked on me since day 2 began.
There has also been 2 votes on my wagon by DCL for most of the day.
I feel at least one is scum. The scum know I'm town and are using my lousy play and lurking to push a town PR hammer they can send to the executioner for death.

You do know answering questions tend to have votes lifted off you, a problem you have persisted in having in this game.

I apologize to everyone for being so useless. I understand the reasons for the "can we force replace this guy" discussion after my last post.

I will do my best to be helpful the rest of the day.

If I somehow survive night I will personally request replacement.

You sort of handicapped yourself as you have locked up 2 of your own votes in your own wagon *durrr*


Now that I am down a vote,

unvote gooner

vote wrathchild

you've jumped up and down claiming you've caught scum based on two faulty thought processess (first with MOS where you repeated something that was already discussed and dropped and now the KOC logic fail continues) so I'd like some reads on something other then MOS and KOC since they have been the only things you've prodded at today.

[StrangerCoug]

And I'd have to look at my Sir Bastion vote again to get an idea of what I was thinking.

OK, I looked and saw that I had responded to what I saw as an overreaction from Sir Bastion. He's much improved since, though.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Note to all games: I'm probably not going to post much (if at all) for the next 24 hours or so. I need to step away from the site for a bit. I'll reevaluate when I get back.

[StrangerCoug]

Hope whatever it is gets better, MoS.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unlikely.

[DCLXVI]

Good news, as of a week ago, I was in 4 games, now I am in 1 and I'm planning on keeping it like that for a week or so. (I'm busy as heck with college) This means I now have more time for this cause I've kind of been neglecting this thread.

Reads, If I don't list someone either they are null, or I forgot them (in which case they most likely are still null)

TheShadow, scum. The self vote is not town-motivated. I find his whole "their all scum cause they voting me" thing rather silly, when you play like that, collecting votes is almost a null tell.

KoC, town: I just can't see that claim coming from scum.

Wrathchild: Scum, the way he is going after KoC it just absolutely ridiculous. KoC never claimed mod error. I don't get why he keeps harping on this.

SerPanda: Town, his activity, scumhunting and engagement with the thread is very townish.

....

Actually I lied, I'm tired and I'll do more reads tomorrow. But these three are ones I feel good about at the moment and I'm tired.

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

D3f3nd3r (8): Nocmen, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Nocmen, Mastermind of Sin, Ser Panda, DoomYoshi, Mastermind of Sin

Nero Cain (6): Teleporting Speed Hippos, guille2015, guille2015, Mastermind of Sin, StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug
vijay2vasandani (6): DoomYoshi, DCLXVI, Knight of Cydonia, DoomYoshi, guille2015, Gooner
Knight of Cydonia (5): WrathChild, WrathChild, Nero Cain, Axelrod, Nero Cain
Mastermind of Sin (4): Axelrod, Gooner, Gooner, WrathChild
WrathChild (4): Knight of Cydonia, Knight of Cydonia, vijay2vasandani, Sir Bastion
StrangerCoug (2): Ser Panda, Quilford
Axelrod (2): vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani
Ser Panda (1): StrangerCoug
Nocmen (1): D3f3nd3r
N (1): Ser Panda
Quilford (1): TheShadow

8

votes are currently not on a player.

TheShadow (10): Quilford, Quilford, DCLXVI, DCLXVI, Nocmen, Nero Cain, D3f3nd3r, Sir Bastion, TheShadow, TheShadow

Every player has

3

votes.
With

19

alive, it's

10

to hammer.
There are

57

votes in play,

10

of which are frozen, leaving

47

votes active.

Deadline is August 31st, noon CEST.

Nero Cain has been prodded.

[N]

This stuff happened a long time before the day ended. I think.

When I went V/LA we didn't even know who the third candidate was going to be yet...

Thor and Argula were hammered pretty early on, weren't they? Let me check. Yep, hammer was by #172, and you didn't announce your V/LA until post #438

How does that have anything to do with my statement that we had multiple candidates vying relatively equally for the third spot when I went V/LA?

But... that's not what your statement was? Your statement was that you thought Arugula was obviously town, but that you didn't have a chance mention that until day 2 because you were V/LA when he was hammered.

VOTE: Mastermind of Sin

[TheShadow]

Please pardon my derp moment last night, I've not been feeling well the past few weeks.

I realize I have handicapped myself having 2 of my votes now locked on my own wagon, I will do what I can with the remaining one.

I acknowledge that self-hammering as town is technically playing against win-con and was half expecting a modkill.

I will attempt a reread in the next few days and try to contribute what I can. Anyone with questions for me that I missed please repeat them in your next post and I'll try to answer.

P-edit:

Unvote, Vote: d3f3nd3r