Newbie 1,276 (Game over!)

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE COUNT

ewo2 (1): nhammen
Nekoko (1): Venrob
Paschendale (3): Nekoko, MissMaggot, ewo2
Venrob (2): Cheery Dog, Paschendale, Wiibox3
Not voting (1): McLucien18

With

9

players alive, it takes

5

players to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2012-09-09 10:13:01).

Mod: please prod Venrob in accordance with rule 13.
Mod: please replace McLucien18 in accordance with rule 13.

Will do both.

[nhammen]

I looked up in this game's ruleset and did not see anything

I apparently did not look closely enough, and this embarrasses me.

[nhammen]

Also, I think post 80 was chastising me for saying that stupid play is townie, and then essentially voting for Venrob for stupid play. I think loud, vocal stupid play is townie. But combine it with lurking, and I think that leans scummier. Either way, it's stronger than any other reads I have, except possibly Nekoko. I'd really like to hear more contributions (and not just defense) from the two of them.

First sentence is worded better than I could do myself. Also, I was also showing a slight contradiction in your thoughts. This could have potentially been a scumtell if not for what follows. Thank you for explaining the difference though. Even if I don't agree with it.

Well, consider this. If I had gotten a scum PM this game, I would have known that there would have been the chance for night 0 discussions. If I knew that, do you think I would have relied on other people not to have realized it? That's a pretty tricky gamble.

This is my thinking exactly. This is why I asked the mod.

it being a scumslip (which was via paraphase "crap, I missed talking to my partner during pregame"), but I saw it as being possible.

This is really the only possible way that he can be scum, in my opinion. And I don't find it very likely.

[StrangerCoug]

JohnnyFarrar and jambecca replace Nekoko and McLucien18 respectively.

[Wiibox3]

Sorry I've been so quiet, at a wedding this weekend, I will give my thoughts on what's going on Monday.

[Venrob]

UNVOTE: Johnny

i see no way for someone to defend their slot just after replacing, from such a silly vote as for RQS.

I will post more in a minute

[JohnnyFarrar]

Hello everyone. Will soon post catchup.

[Venrob]

Well im late. Seems 2 good places to put my vote, both ill have an explaination for...

IC bw, just for being an IC. IC makes good town, but much better scum!

So you're choice 1 is the IC because he's just an IC. This doesn't make sense at all.

IC makes good scum. Thats why.

RQS starter bw.
RQS-RANDOM QUESTIONING STAGE
RQS can help the maf in more ways than are obvious.
1.Questions on playstyle for one: maf might look at their answer, maybe find something off from how they are playing? People play different with different roles. Maf might sniff out a power role!
2.Answers containing accidental softclaims:
Not often, but ive seen RQS with an unintentional softclaim, then the maf killed them. Doctor died that way.

No it's not obvious. If it's obvious, I won't see in newbie games people
starting with random questioning stage. You're putting me at L-1 just
because you disagree with me in RQS

I said in more ways than obvious.

[Venrob]

made a slight mistake with a quote tag there.

[Cheery Dog]

I happen to find this bit of your post to be the scummiest sentence so far this game, but it's not enough for me to move my vote.

If it is the scummiest sentence so far, and your current vote is not random, why is it not enough to move your vote?

Because one sentence doesn't automatically mean someone is scum. The rest of Paschendale's posts hadn't been scummy, and I found all of venrob's posting to still be scummier overall than just that one sentence.
and since that post Paschendale has been even more town, and venrob hasn't changed.

I said in more ways than obvious.

Any post is able to help scum in much the same way, softclaims can come from anywhere and anywhen. RQS can also actually help town depending on how scum answer the questions, while scum may be able to get more out of it as they know which people are on their team, the same could be said with any post there as well.
I don't find RQS really doing much different than anything, it just means some of the information is there earlier in the game.

[ewo2]

Welp, knowing that the scum could chat before the game started has more or less completely changed my view on the game and has forced me to reread.

There was no night 0 phase in this game. There is literally no way that scum could have scripted an interaction without cheating. Her allegation is 100% impossible to be correct. Since the role PMs went out for this game, no one should have been talking about it outside this thread.

This more or less clears Pasch (my #1 suspicion) as town in my mind based on the fact that scum could chat before the game started. It also clears Maggot, as she was in a back-and-forth with Pasch about the "scripted" conversation and had a chance to call him out for BS'ing about not being able to chat pre-day one if he were scum.

UNVOTE:

In rereading myself it appears that yes, I did forget who I was voting for when I unvoted nekoko thinking I was unvoting wii. I think it's pretty clear in reading my post that I genuinely thought my vote was on wii, so I don't see how that's a scumtell. Additionally I also make it abundantly clear that Pasch had become my top candidate for scum. And Nh, accusing me of following bandwagons when I have created and laid out good cases on the players I considered scum is stretching for a reason to vote me. I think your vote on me was OMGUS driven.

In retrospect Nh's post asking the mod whether or not the scum could communicate before the game started is even more suspect given that they CAN, and nh had just stated that they had been able to in all of the other newbie games he'd played. I think as an IC, being as thorough as you have been, you'd have gone back and checked the first post and answered that question yourself, or you'd at least have said "scum are typically able to communicate before the game starts". ( I had the exact opposite idea because I've been playing at EM, where daystarts go right into the game). Instead, you deferred to the mod in what I see as a way of avoiding putting yourself in the spotlight as someone who might potentially be more aware of what scum could and could not do.

Here is nh in his first post after the mod cleared up the question about scum chat:

Mod: please prod Venrob in accordance with rule 13.
Mod: please replace McLucien18 in accordance with rule 13.

He cites the SPECIFIC RULE, for god's sake. And you're telling me this guy, who has never seen a game where scum couldn't chat before the game started, and who reread the rules in order to cite the damn corresponding rule, would defer to the mod with that question? I don't think so. And shortly thereafter, nh makes two posts to really drill home how he misread the rules, then to confirm that he didn't get a scum pm by agreeing with pasch. This comes across as very scummy.

VOTE: nhammen

Cheery still comes across as very townish. Venrob is still playing an unsatisfactory, scummy game, and pulling his vote in his recent post seemingly serves only to make it seem like he's active when he is clearly not. Nekoko's replacing out is not a good sign but Johnny deserves a chance to contribute. Wii needs to post something significant soon, he is a nullread still but his lurking is not good. Jambecca (McLucien) is still a total null.

My current reads:

Town: Cheery dog, Maggot, Pasch
Null: jambecca, wii
Scummy: venrob, Johnny, nhammen

[Venrob]

Look, if you think im being scummy... shit, i dont have a completed town game to point you to!

If you go on epicmafia.com, find the profile of the user SupahGamah. Thats me. You can look at some of my past games (though you need an account)

To register:
http://www.epicmafia.com/home?referrer=SupahGamah
My profile:
http://www.epicmafia.com/user/203356
My past games:
http://www.epicmafia.com/game/1319526/review
http://www.epicmafia.com/game/1319520/review
http://www.epicmafia.com/game/1319513/review
http://www.epicmafia.com/game/1319500/review
http://www.epicmafia.com/game/1319477/review
http://www.epicmafia.com/game/1319475/review
http://www.epicmafia.com/game/1319471/review
http://www.epicmafia.com/game/1319423/review
http://www.epicmafia.com/game/1319026/review
http://www.epicmafia.com/game/1319005/review

Then click 'Review Game'.
You see all chat, and all night actions.
This is my meta.


Now, i tend to play based on my thoughts. If i think something is stupid and is good for scum, i attack. If i think a bandwagon is basisless, i attack it.


Now, if you would not lynch me for my playstyle please. I act the same as both town and scum. Well, not at lylo. At lylo my play changes slightly. (if u wanna know what i mean about lylo, click the link to open 428 in my signature)

Now, as for active lurking, i honestly forgot i was playing this game xD
I will post again on... the next page. I need more content to base a vote on. (i unvoted because it was an RVS vote, we dont need those laying around page 5)

[Paschendale]

I'll give you a chance to turn yourself around, Venrob, but be aware that you're on a short leash. Start with how you were so sure in post 42 about Nekoko. That was certainly too late to cast a random vote. You say it was an RVS vote... but an RVS vote at L-1? After there was actual stuff going on to discuss? No, I don't believe you. You better have a damn good explanation or you're on the chopping block.

Between our chimps... I understand Nhammen's vote for Ewo. His strange unvote was well... strange. But his explanation of forgetting does actually fit what he said. I don't think it was malicious. I understand 100% why Nhammen would ask for the mod's input, and said as much about why in 86. But on the other hand, Ewo's suspicions do make some sense, if you presuppose malice on Nhammen's part. But the idea that Nhammen was lying about knowing the rules... I looked at the ruleset too, while asserting that there was no night 0. I scrolled right past the role PMs and looked at the listed rules for something about a pre-game night phase. When I didn't see one, I presumed that my notion was correct. Nhammen did, I assume, the same thing, and then had rule 13 fresh in his mind when asking for the prod. I think Ewo is stretching. I think his suspicions of Nhammen are completely wrong. The only reason to think that Nhammen would have something to hide during the exchange about a night 0 would be if he and I were scumbuddies and he were protecting me. But both of you said that you don't think I'm scum, so suspecting Nhammen requires an associative tell which is no longer valid.

I think Ewo and Nhammen are both townies, though Nhammen more so. I think our two best targets are Venrob, who can't seem to do anything but dig himself farther and farther into a hole, and Nekoko/Johnny. All of the weird stuff that Nekoko did still applies, and she did replace out right as she was beginning to get pressured.

[Cheery Dog]

My current reads:

Town: Cheery dog, Maggot, Pasch
Null: jambecca, wii
Scummy: venrob, Johnny, nhammen

Are you going to be putting this at the bottom of all your posts? I can't really see the need of placing a full reads list every post. (though it's fine if you want to keep it there - it might help you remember who you are voting for)

Look, if you think im being scummy... shit, i dont have a completed town game to point you to!

I just looked in your threads (on this site) and found that you were in newbie 1265, though I notice you were replaced out, it does show how you started another game as town.

Now, i tend to play based on my thoughts. If i think something is stupid and is good for scum, i attack. If i think a bandwagon is basisless, i attack it.

That's good to know, people who don't play on thoughts are worrisome. Right now I think you are scum, therefore I am attacking.

Now, if you would not lynch me for my playstyle please. I act the same as both town and scum. Well, not at lylo. At lylo my play changes slightly. (if u wanna know what i mean about lylo, click the link to open 428 in my signature)

If I find your playstyle to be scummy, then I will lynch you for it. I am aware that people have different playstyles, but since I don't know all the details about yours (and I can't really be bothered to sign up to another sign just so I can examine it) I've only got what I am shown here. I also don't know the details about anyone else's playstyle and they would probably also tell be they play the same style as town and as scum, so I don't even see what the playstyle has to do with this.

I will post again on... the next page. I need more content to base a vote on. (i unvoted because it was an RVS vote, we dont need those laying around page 5)

Everyone else has found enough content to base a vote on currently on the content we have, so why are you unable to, and not willing to post until the next page doesn't look good for you not being an active lurker.
Do you know what the best way to produce more content is? You either make it yourself, or you ask questions. Sitting around waiting for content to come in means the content is just going to be slow.

[MissMaggot]

I have a gut theory about two particular members. I will share it either once there is enough content to support it or once it has been pretty clearly disproven for me. This is mostly just a placemarker for that thought, and also to see if anyone else thinks they're catching onto what I am. This game is a bit different from my last one because I don't feel as certain about my reads, so I'm trying to handle it in this way. I don't want to say my observation yet because it might affect what I think is happening if I'm right. This is essentially my promise to share it when the time comes.

[Venrob]

I see things that are about to come, and i wait for them. Surely i will soon know where my vote goes.

(my gut is really really good, im waiting for something to make my vote not random)

[JohnnyFarrar]

Hey guys, sorry to replace in and make you wait some more. The weekend is a terrible time to replace in, as it's the only time I work. I'm no longer working during the week though, so expect content tomorrow.

[Cheery Dog]

I have a gut theory about two particular members. I will share it either once there is enough content to support it or once it has been pretty clearly disproven for me. This is mostly just a placemarker for that thought, and also to see if anyone else thinks they're catching onto what I am. This game is a bit different from my last one because I don't feel as certain about my reads, so I'm trying to handle it in this way. I don't want to say my observation yet because it might affect what I think is happening if I'm right. This is essentially my promise to share it when the time comes.

We don't know what it is, so how is it going to be disproven?
Looks to me like you want someone else to suggest possible pairings that you can then agree on, but maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong angle.

I see things that are about to come, and i wait for them. Surely i will soon know where my vote goes.

(my gut is really really good, im waiting for something to make my vote not random)

I'm going to guess this is to do with the McLucien18/jambecca slot?
Though I do note that you mentioned gut reads in open 428.

[MissMaggot]

I'm talking personally disproven. Pretty much meaning until I figure it just can't be. I'm not looking for people to agree with, because even if someone were to come to the same conclusion as me I wouldn't reveal my thoughts about it until either of the mentioned qualifiers happens. If it happens to be a dead end, then that's just what it is. But if it's more, it's worth speculating about. Drawing others into making reads about the possible player interactions will give us a further defining layer that we can judge on aside from voting. I know it's a bit early to be drawing up scumpairs, but I'm just really curious as to who each person might choose and why. With that kind of information, we can draw better connections. And I'm hoping that the results will either strengthen or weaken what I have in mind. I'm not particularly worried if I'm wrong, I just don't want to sit here with this feeling and not know where to go with it, so this is my attempt at moving it forward.

[Wiibox3]

There was no night 0 phase in this game. There is literally no way that scum could have scripted an interaction without cheating. Her allegation is 100% impossible to be correct. Since the role PMs went out for this game, no one should have been talking about it outside this thread.

This more or less clears Pasch (my #1 suspicion) as town in my mind based on the fact that scum could chat before the game started. It also clears Maggot, as she was in a back-and-forth with Pasch about the "scripted" conversation and had a chance to call him out for BS'ing about not being able to chat pre-day one if he were scum.

Maybe, or this could be a very good scum play. He may have read the rules closely and noticed pre-day 1 talk was only mentioned in the PM. So if someone asked the mod, or noticed the PM he could say he totally missed it. This would be a great way to clear him in the eyes of the town.

Now, if you would not lynch me for my playstyle please. I act the same as both town and scum.

I wasn't going to bother reading your other games, but your also saying it wouldn't matter now. Despite not wanting to look differently between scum and town games, you would have to be acting differently, since your goal is different. But I can understand that you would want your scum games to appear to be the same as your town games. But how can you say that you act the same from both sides?

I have a gut theory about two particular members. I will share it either once there is enough content to support it or once it has been pretty clearly disproven for me.

Do you have anything to say about the other players of the game. Is there anyone you feel is town, or do you have no clear reads on anyone?

I see things that are about to come, and i wait for them. Surely i will soon know where my vote goes.

(my gut is really really good, im waiting for something to make my vote not random)

Posts like these are very unhelpful, they don't give us anything to go on. If you are town, you should do whatever you can to help us determine either who isn't town or who you think is town.

I know it's a bit early to be drawing up scumpairs, but I'm just really curious as to who each person might choose and why.

This is something I have a hard time with, since scum try to distance eachother so much during the day. I'm not sure how to find a scumpair...

[Wiibox3]

Wii needs to post something significant soon, he is a nullread still but his lurking is not good.

For someone who has posted so few times it is pretty scummy to accuse me of lurking, just after I said I wouldn't be able to post since I was at a wedding. If you want to use a tactic like this you should be more active in the game.

[ewo2]

Maybe, or this could be a very good scum play. He may have read the rules closely and noticed pre-day 1 talk was only mentioned in the PM. So if someone asked the mod, or noticed the PM he could say he totally missed it. This would be a great way to clear him in the eyes of the town.

That would be a huge stretch.

For someone who has posted so few times it is pretty scummy to accuse me of lurking, just after I said I wouldn't be able to post since I was at a wedding. If you want to use a tactic like this you should be more active in the game.

It's not about the frequency of posts. It's about the quality of posts. If you're making significant posts every couple of days that add content to the game, you're contributing much more than if you post fluffy crap every three hours. I am doing the former.

[nhammen]

And Nh, accusing me of following bandwagons when I have created and laid out good cases on the players I considered scum is stretching for a reason to vote me.

Your good cases have been restatements of cases put forth by other players. It's not hard for scum to fit in in this way.

I think your vote on me was OMGUS driven.

And now you are just making things up. You had a null read on me when I voted you. How can you POSSIBLY construe that as OMGUS?

In retrospect Nh's post asking the mod whether or not the scum could communicate before the game started is even more suspect given that they CAN, and nh had just stated that they had been able to in all of the other newbie games he'd played. I think as an IC, being as thorough as you have been, you'd have gone back and checked the first post and answered that question yourself, or you'd at least have said "scum are typically able to communicate before the game starts". ( I had the exact opposite idea because I've been playing at EM, where daystarts go right into the game). Instead, you deferred to the mod in what I see as a way of avoiding putting yourself in the spotlight as someone who might potentially be more aware of what scum could and could not do.

As scum, I would have not said anything on the matter, because it effectively confirms Pasch, and scum do NOT want there to be any conf town.

[nhammen]

and then had rule 13 fresh in his mind when asking for the prod.

Not quite. I knew that there was a specific rule with a number, so I looked back to get the exact number.

I just looked in your threads (on this site) and found that you were in newbie 1265, though I notice you were replaced out, it does show how you started another game as town.

It looks to me like his play in that game (where he is town) closely matched his play here. Other than the lurking from Tuesday to Saturday anyways.

also to see if anyone else thinks they're catching onto what I am.

I'm not catching onto it. I have seen a few things that might be connections, but it is waaay too early to speculate with any likelihood.

Maybe, or this could be a very good scum play. He may have read the rules closely and noticed pre-day 1 talk was only mentioned in the PM. So if someone asked the mod, or noticed the PM he could say he totally missed it. This would be a great way to clear him in the eyes of the town.

Are you worried about the possibility of Pasch being semi-confirmed?

[StrangerCoug]

Bumping over the count.