LONG POST INCOMING!
(Would have used spoiler tags, if that was allowed...)
Page 1: Introductions, some random votes, some random questions. The beginning of some discussion. I like MissMaggot's (MM) reaction to her wagon, since she accepts it as a source of information, instead of going all "WHY ARE YOU ALL VOTING FOR ME?!?!?!?! I'M TOWN, YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!" (This comes, of course, in different nuances.) nhammen (nham) also gets a few town points for his questions. I'm not sure where my vote would be after this page.
Page 2: MM and Paschendale (Pasch) have a small exchange about scripted discussions, which I'm personally not quite seeing, but okay. The first post to raise a flag is
Post 32 from Pasch.
↑ Paschendale wrote: ↑ Nekoko wrote:Hi everyone! This is my third game in the forums and ever since my first game here,
I became fond of the Random Questioning Stage. It is a way for people to talk more
about substantial things than voting people randomly. So here goes...
Okay, Nekoko likes that RVS isn't just random and wasteful. It brings out meaningful things.
No, that isn't what she's saying. She says she likes RQS as a way to talk more substantial things, as opposed to RVS. If anything, that isn't "RVS isn't just random and wasteful".
Paschendale wrote:
And since I don't go for no-lynches, I will always try to vote the most suspicious player.
Since the day is still young, here is the random vote
VOTE: Paschendale
Right... RVS shouldn't be completely random, and yet here is a random vote. On someone who hasn't even posted yet.
Again, no. She said that she likes RQS better than RVS. That doesn't mean she can't place a random vote.
Paschendale wrote:
↑ Nekoko wrote:For some reason Paschendale reminds me of
classical game so that's why I voted you
For a really random reason. Saying one thing and doing another is pretty suspicious. I didn't even base my vote on this originally, but looking back, it looks like laying groundwork for getting away with shoddy logic later on.
Same could be said about you, Pasch. Nice way of misrepresenting Nekoko/JohnnyFarrar (Johnny). You've just earned some scum points.
Post 33 marks Wiibox3's (Wii) first post that is actually helpful. In a way...
Nekoko points out that Pasch's argument doesn't make sense, but uses meta a way to counter it.
Venrob/JasonWazza (Jason) enters at
Post 42. He enters with an incredibly nonsensical post about lynching the IC and discussing the RQS, neither of which are relevant at this point in the game. The lynching the IC part would be acceptable on page one, not half-way down page 2. CheeryDog (Dog) points out how stupid the post is in his next post, which earns him town points. Same goes for Nekoko in
Post 43, but for some reason, I liked Dog's reply better.
Pasch continues his shaky logic against Nekoko in
Post 46 and makes a remark about Dog saying 'derphammer' instead of 'scum quickhammer'. I personally don't see why that should be pointed out, why derphammer is more preferable than scum quickhammer, and what he's trying to accomplish by pointing this out. And he threatens Venrob.
Venrob throws a defensive fit in
Post 47 which only adds major scumpoints to his case. Not helpful. Pasch's vote is more than reasonable. I'd have done the same.
MM wraps this page up with telling Pasch the difference between a reason and an accusation, and telling Venrob to calm down.
After this page, my vote would probably be on Pasch or Venrob. MM and Dog look pretty town to me.
Page 3: MM and Pasch continue their discussion from page 2.
Post 52 marks MM's vote for Pasch. Pasch's reaction? Giving some SE advice in a condescending tone... That's about the weirdest defense I've ever seen. What were you trying to accomplish here, Pasch?
nham points out a few things others have pointed out already in
Post 57 and
Post 58, and some new things. He's the first to suspect ewo2 (ewo), who at that point only had made two posts. And nham and MM point out that there's been a deafening silence from the previous holder of this slot, McLucien18.
Pasch answers a question directed to Venrob, which is quite a stupid thing to do. Say Venrob were scum, he could just say, yes, Pasch is right. And where would that bring us? It's more null than scummy, though, IMO.
Nekoko finds it necessary to point out again that Venrob's cases are stupid and null in
Post 62. However, I don't see in what way Venrob's and Pasch's cases are the same. Venrob attacked the fact that Nekoko asks random questions, Pasch's attacked the (faulty) premise that Nekoko said that she wants RVS to be constrictive and that she followed it up with a completely random vote. I don't see how those cases are similar.
Dog adds some much-needed sense to the topic, on which Nekoko feels the need to react to in a way I don't understand...
ewo posts a full list of reads in
Post 69, in which he discusses everyone, but McLucien and nham... I can understand ignoring McLucien, as he's said absolutely nothing at that point, but why ignore nham? He has said things to react to...
Post 70 features Pasch defending himself, by saying that it all started with MM saying that Pasch's and Nekoko's interaction felt scripted, thus blaming her for the argument. He then says that scum can't have had discussion at the beginning of the game, which isn't true. I'm personally not sure what do to with that statement. Could be scum, trying to throw off town, or could be genuinely town, who hasn't read the role PMs in the intro. He also says that MM was wrong in attacking him, which at the same time accused him of cheating. Why he hadn't brought that up before, god knows. It would make for a better defense than what he has thrown up for most of the game now...
Wii feels the need to bring up MM's reason for RVS voting him again, by way of defense for MM. And it features Wii's third actually useful post out of nine... That makes 1/3 of his posts being fluff/useless. I'm this close to accusing him of active lurking.
Pasch finishes this page up with saying that 2 out of 3 votes on him are OMGUS, which raises more questions than it answers, but let's see where page 4 will bring us!
After this page: I'm less sure about my Pasch read, though not enough to move him to null. MM and Dog are still town. Wii is going down the scum route of active lurking, but it's too soon to actually turn that into a scum read. McLucien still contributes with... deafening silence.
Page 4: Dog asks the question eeeeeeeveryone wanted to ask about Pasch's statement. Honestly, it confuses me as to why Pasch didn't add that in his initial post... Pasch answers that ewo is misguided on him being wishy-washy. However, I doubt you can call MM's and Nekoko's votes OMGUS at this point... They've both made it very clear why they're suspecting Pasch. He wants to direct the attention back to Venrob, which I read as, 'look, I'm town, stop wasting your time and energy on me, focus on this scummy player instead!'. Which is... quite the null tell... I can see scum doing it, I can see town doing it.
nham points out that ewo's read yet again matches the current wagons in
Post 78, but fails to notice that ewo didn't discuss him at all in
Post 69. Then again, no one pointed that out, so... Now that I'm typing this down... Could it be that nham and ewo are scumpartners? That would explain that small inconsistency in ewo's post... I'll be looking into that.
Post 82 Dog makes, yet again, a good post. However, I gotta say, he's, like Pasch, answering questions directed to others, which I don't think is a smart thing to do, 'cause it has a big potential of helping scum.
Wii also chimes in on Pasch's statement with yet another reason why Venrob isn't getting the attention he deserves and gives a pressure vote on Venrob, which I like.
ewo suddenly starts accusing nham for trying to clarify whether or not the scum are allowed to talk during the pre-game. Not sure why that'd be unhelpful. He also supports his claim of Pasch being wishy-washy with some actual evidence. Nice. I like that. Pasch explains why he thinks that nham asked that question to the mod, which makes sense. He then asks for contributions from Nekoko and Venrob.
MM enters after a bit of absense and posts a list of reads. Her reads are mainly null reads, which isn't necessarily bad, but I do feel a glaring lack of scum reads, however, she explains her reads well. She says she'd like to vote Venrob, but doesn't feel safe enough putting someone at L-1.
StrangerCoug enters and says that pre-game talk is allowed. Pasch is all surprised about this and says that it was different in the other games he played. Dog tells him that he has played in newbie games were it was allowed, but Pasch counters this by saying that he hasn't been scum yet in any of his completed games. Dog says that he hasn't yet encountered a game where it wasn't allowed, so. To be honest, I'm not quite sure what to do with this information. Pasch could have been faking it all along, just to incriminate MM, but there's also the possibility that he really didn't know.
Nekoko replaces out in the next post. From here on, she'll be JohnnyFarrar (Johnny)
Pasch says that it would have been a pretty tricky gamble, but his post also proves that it's easy to talk himself out of it, in case stuff went wrong. He also says that no one really reads all the role PMs at the beginning of the game, which would make his gamble less tricky, when you think about it. I don't agree with Dog saying that it makes Pasch town, because of the reasons stated above.
nham wraps the page up with explaining his vote on ewo, which makes an awful lot of sense.
My reads: Hmm, interesting... I'm not so sure about Pasch's scumminess anymore, so I'd probably have my vote on Venrob, because, unlike MM, I'm more than willing to pressure-vote lurkers to get them back to the game. The only townread I'm still sure of is Dog, because of MM's inactiveness. I doubt nhammen and ewo are scumpartners, but they could be doing a healthy bit of distancing.
Page 5: Venrob returns, by putting a single sentence under a huge quote by way of defense. If there's something I hate...
Dog points out the flaws in Venrob's logic behind why RQS is bad.
ewo throws up a incredibly weird agrument about nham lying about not knowing scum had pre-game talk, hence he's scum. I seem to remember that it'll be refuted by someone later on, but my god... Where does he get that from?
Venrob goes to defend himself by giving a huge list of links on how he played on EM. Personally, I think meta arguments are stupid as hell, who is going to read all that, and EM has a whole different meta than MS. He then goes on explaining his playstyle... Sigh. Pasch reacts to this by asking Venrob a nice bunch of questions.
Pasch then continues to refute ewo's argument on nham, and says that the focus should should be laid on Venrob and Nekoko/Johnny. I agree with the focus on Venrob, but I'm not sure whether I can see Nekoko's scumminess.
Dog makes a nice case on Venrob's post. I agree with what he said, and I've read newbie 1265, though I can't quit remember Venrob's play in there. I think it made more sense in that game.
MM then says that she has a gut theory, but that she won't share it yet. I don't like this post. If you've got nothing to say, say nothing at all. Seriously, MM is slowly going to the active lurker corner. Venrob takes MM's post as a nice reason to go lurking himself, so from the look of it, this isn't a good post.
Wii then makes a substancial post, which... doesn't really have anything I need to comment on...
ewo says that it's a huge stretch to think that Pasch lied about not knowing about pre-game talk. Maybe, but we need to consider all possibilities out there.
nham deconstructs ewo's case on him in a good way. Not really defensive, but he manages to pick out all ewo's arguments in a clean manner. Townpoints for nham.
End of page 5.
My reads: Largely the same. Vote would still be on Venrob. I think both nhammen and Dog are town at this point. I'm not so sure about MM anymore, she's become null. Same goes for the rest of the players.
Page 6!
nham and ewo get into an argument whether nham's vote on ewo was OMGUS, which, surprise, surprise, it wasn't. ewo didn't even mention nham in that post. ewo's vote is more likely to be OMGUS than nham's is.
Johnny enters with a catch-up post, which I, quite frankly, haven't got much to say about. Except for that all his synmonyms for Cheery Dog made me giggle.
jambecca enters, promises to read the game and give detailed opinions, and doesn't. All hail lurker slots!
Wii posts something, which assures Johnny of his townieness. And, acutally, he's right. Wii's post does score him nice townie points.
MM chimes in with a small misprepresentation of Johnny. Johnny says that for this once, he'd actually be fine with a policy lynch; MM takes that to mean that he's proposing one. Besides that... Like her post! (Although I've read arguments for policy lynches sometime ago...)
nham defends himself from Johnny's accusation again in a nice, calm, understandable manner. More townie points for nham!
Page 6; my reads: Not the most interesting page of the game... MM gets closer to get her spot back on the townie list. I feel like ewo is getting more and more scummy, but not enough to vote for him just yet. The rest, with the exception of Dog and nham, are null.
Page 7:
Johnny starts with explaining why he voted nham. It rings true to me, but it's not enough to move nham to a spot on the null list. Pasch then says that ewo is more scummy than nham, votes him and gives a good reason why the reasons in
Post 150 ring true, but they don't neccesarily scummy.
nham comes in with his defense to Johnny's case and it's good. Good enough for me, at least.
MM changes her question to the more correct 'why would Johnny be okay with a policy lynch?', instead of the misrep 'why does Johnny propose a policy lynch?'. I'm not really sure what to make from that, but because I have had her as town for quite some while, I'll give her the benefit of doubt and say that she's clarifing her statement to get an answer out of Johnny. Johnny answers in a completely reasonable manner (in one of my previous games, an argument like this got a townie lynched, so I guess you should watch out with them. If anyone is interested in the game, I'll be more than happy to provide a link if you ask.)
Johnny changes his vote to ewo, which I support. ewo says that he wasn't able to post due to Isaac, which is a legitimate reason.
Some more discussion about policy lynches ensues. Wii thinks it's necessary to call jambecca out on stalling, while the game has moved forward from that point on... But, while I'm not a big fan of lynch all lurkers, I'm more than fine with vote all lurkers to get them back to the game.
Venrob and jambecca replace out. And we still have no information from my slot! Hurray! This is the first substancial post from my slot... It's sad...
More inactivity!
Johnny reads nham's games and decides that nham was speaking the truth about his 'seems and slights'.
MM finally outs her theory about nham and Pasch could possibly be scumpartners, which I didn't quite see so far, even less so when she said she had a theory, but didn't want to share it. I agree with Dog, I don't see it, because I have nham as town and Pasch as null and I'm a little too lazy now to ISO them both... I also agree with the second part of his
Post 172. ewo gets scummier and scummier...
Page 7 ends with more inactivity.
Page 7; reads! Again, mostly the same. MM gets more null points, for withholding her theory and having one that doesn't fit with my reads. ewo starts to act more scummy. Pasch is still a bit null for me, but he's going more and more up the townie lane. Dog and nham are still town. Wii... I'm not sure... I'd have to ISO him to make a more definite judgement. I'd have to move my vote, since I hate having votes on a slot that replaces in, so I guess my vote would be on ewo.
Page 8: the current page! Hurray!
Jason and me join in.
nham asks MM for proof on her theory.
Jason's catch-up post is the first post to catch on Pasch's misrep of Nekoko. Like that. I'm not sure about his comment on
Post 87. Yes, site flakes happen all the time, but how often does it happen that someone doesn't post AT ALL? I do agree on his comment about moving MM's theory forward; hadn't thought about it in that way. He then votes MM for witholding info and for watching my slot. Neither reasons seem to hold much water. What would MM as scum have to gain from withholding that info? And I'd be watching lurker slots like mine too.
Okay, interested to see what MM comes up with when she has her laptop. Could be interesting.
Pasch makes one post, but I don't really have anything to say about that...
So, that's pretty much it! My god, that took looooong... Here are my reads.
Dog: agree with virtually all of his posts. Town.
nham: stays calm, makes good arguments against ewo's case on him. Town.
Johnny: not always the best arguments, but he asks good questions. Town.
Pasch: had him as scum first, but he slowly moved away from that read. Null-leaning town.
MM: the opposite of Pasch. Had her as town at first, but she's done a few questionable things which makes me not sure sure of that read anymore... Null-leaning town.
Jason: too little content to swing either way yet. Null.
Wii: a bit of a fluffy poster in the beginning, but becomes more substancial later on. I'm not really sure what to do with him. Null
ewo: my strongest scum read atm. His case on nham was not so good at best. Scum-leaning null.
However, my scum read isn't strong enough to put ewo at L-1... So, ewo, you're warned. Anything that even slightly indicates that you're not town, and you'll get my vote.
Phew, that was long... Hope this satisfies you! If you want me to clarify anything, feel free to ask!
