Judge, Jury, and Executioner - Over

[guille2015]

Well, you could have investigated me last night. I am in the same position as Ser Panda. I placed a guilty on SC and he did not die. If you would have found Blood on me than either Ser Panda and me are both mafia. Or Ser panda's result is confounded with the guilty verdict on the survived player. If you do not find Blood on me then Ser Panda is definitely scum.

[BloodCovenent]

Well, you could have investigated me last night. I am in the same position as Ser Panda. I placed a guilty on SC and he did not die. If you would have found Blood on me than either Ser Panda and me are both mafia. Or Ser panda's result is confounded with the guilty verdict on the survived player. If you do not find Blood on me then Ser Panda is definitely scum.

perhaps, but i would have rather targeted someone who was not in a jury duty at all.

[guille2015]

Would you consider investigating me tonight?

[Ser Panda]

I'm on vacation right now wont have time to post properly for the next 5 days.

vote strangercoug

vote guile

Jury you made a deal

[Ser Panda]

Would you consider investigating me tonight?

haha nice try but you're getting lynched today

[guille2015]

Would you consider investigating me tonight?

haha nice try but you're getting lynched today

I know it's bad policy to suggest targets to investigators, but, this would clear you from being scum if I show up as bloody. Actually, no, if I show bloody, we are both confounded data. But what would really happen is that if I do not show up bloody, means that you are definitely scum.

[guille2015]

But what would really happen is that if I do not show up bloody, means that you are definitely scum.

EBWOP: That should read as: "but what would really be interesting is that..."

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

StrangerCoug (5): Sir Bastion, Sir Bastion, BloodCovenent, guille2015, Ser Panda

guille2015 (3): BloodCovenent, BloodCovenent, Ser Panda
BloodCovenent (1): Sir Bastion

27

votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has

3

votes.
With

12

alive, it's

7

to hammer.
There are

36

votes in play,

0

of which are frozen, leaving

36

votes active.

Deadline is October 9th, 10 a.m. CEST.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Jury was: Axelrod; Nocmen; DoomYoshi; Ser Panda and myself. We judged GreyICE.

GreyICE's statement amounted to "I give up, kill me, look at SerPanda, DCL, Guille and Nocmen".
I voted guilty for the attempted quickhammer on a strong town read of mine and earlier reservations about v2v. Nocmen sheeped.

SerPanda tried to push for not guilty based on Guille being obv-scum for putting him at L-2 and then disappearing. Expressed belief that the scum-team would be found in AV, guille, WrathChild and Sir Bastion, then confirmed a not guilty vote.
DoomYoshi talked a lot about there being "no theoretical reason" to vote not guilty without very good evidence of innocence (which is interesting since he never actually voted guilty). Brought up the Jester thing

again

I express agreement with Panda on guille and note that AV has really been on the periphery of the game a lot since replacing in; ask for any reason why GreyICE would quickhammer as town. Panda replies that he can't see a GreyICE/guille bus: has no real reason for the GreyICE quickhammer attempt as town, but pre-emptively calls out WIFOM and says GreyICE's attitude is townish.

I list several posts from GreyICE's ISO that made me believe he wasn't town (I can go into detail about these if you want, they're all in his ISO) and note that with no scum deaths whatsoever, bussing right now would be a great idea for town-points.

Panda says that if 3-4 of us agree on a guilty vote and GreyICE flips scum, he'll sheep us, if he flips town, we owe him a guille, AV, Wrath and Bastion lynch (seems like an awful lot for one town flip, especially considering how close we potentially are to being fucked - I guess he's secure in those reads). Notes GreyICE's reaction to the Amished tell (posts 1808 and 1812 in thread) call as further townie evidence.

Some conjecture between myself and Panda at this point as to whether being forced to kill Thor N1 would give BC a false positive on me. Panda believes that because I voted not guilty, regardless of what actually happened I should be clean. I'm not entirely sure about this, but as we'll see, the point will become moot shortly. Panda notes that Doom should probably not be voting guilty and suggests I shouldn't as well due to his belief that the force-kill will not put blood on my hands.

Panda and I both express... differing views on GreyICE's personality. I believed his "don't give a fuck" attitude is just GreyICE being GreyICE; Panda claims to know his personality better.

Doom and Nocmen both re-iterate that they see no real reason for GreyICE's play as a townie. Axelrod finally appears in the thread, indicates leaning towards a guilty vote. At this point, Panda is the only person with a town read on Grey.
DoomYoshi rules out "this slot and KoC being on the same scum-team together" - first the Jester thing and then the caveat of "not on the

same

scum team" instead of "not scum together". Forgets Nocmen but EBWOPs to account for this.
Before I get a chance to get back in the thread so that I can change my vote to Not Guilty in line with Panda's earlier post, Axel hammers based on "slip" about scum having a way to kill the judge and his read on v2v. Not sure if he read the thread (and specifically Panda's agreement) or not.

And yes, Panda, I do owe you, I suppose.

Vote: Guille
Vote: Guille
Vote: StrangerCoug

Best chance now is to put 2 scum minimum on each night and have it get to the point where scum can only save one of themselves a night and hope they get lucky with Jurors or the Judge.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Would you consider investigating me tonight?

haha nice try but you're getting lynched today

I know it's bad policy to suggest targets to investigators, but, this would clear you from being scum if I show up as bloody. Actually, no, if I show bloody, we are both confounded data. But what would really happen is that if I do not show up bloody, means that you are definitely scum.

This is absolutely false and you know it.

[guille2015]

What is false?

[Knight of Cydonia]

But what would really happen is that if I do not show up bloody, means that you are definitely scum.

EBWOP: That should read as: "but what would really be interesting is that..."

"If I do not show up bloody, means you are definitely scum".

Not seeing it.

[BloodCovenent]

Knights, did Doom Vote guilty?

[Knight of Cydonia]

He was definitely for a GreyICE lynch, but didn't vote.

[BloodCovenent]

He was definitely for a GreyICE lynch, but didn't vote.

so Doom has not taken part of a night kill, however, i still think he could be scum.

If scum chose the same executioner each night, this game could be sooo imbalanced unless there are other town PR's other than mine.

[guille2015]

But what would really happen is that if I do not show up bloody, means that you are definitely scum.

EBWOP: That should read as: "but what would really be interesting is that..."

"If I do not show up bloody, means you are definitely scum".

Not seeing it.

He and I are on the same standings. We both claim that we were not Executioners. We both were in the Jury only that night. We both voted Guilty on SC. SC survived. We both claimed that we are not the judge. And last night I was not part of the Jury or executioner. In other words, I should have the same result as Ser Panda if we are both telling the truth.

If I do not show up bloody, that means that Ser Pandas Bloody result came from somewhere other than the guilty on SC.

[Knight of Cydonia]

He voted guilty, therefore he has blood on his hands. Not exactly hard to comprehend, and we've been over this point several times. Your "blood on hands" status doesn't clear or damn Ser Panda - in fact that's kind of the problem with this role: if scum can be on the jury (which, given that YOU were, I'm certain of) then all they have to do is vote guilty and BCov's role becomes useless.

[guille2015]

SerPanda tried to push for not guilty based on Guille being obv-scum for putting him at L-2 and then disappearing. Expressed belief that the scum-team would be found in AV, guille, WrathChild and Sir Bastion, then confirmed a not guilty vote.
DoomYoshi talked a lot about there being "no theoretical reason" to vote not guilty without very good evidence of innocence (which is interesting since he never actually voted guilty). Brought up the Jester thing again

By him you mean GreyIce or Ser Panda. I never voted for GreyICE. But I thought Ser Panda was scum due to BC's result. And the disappearing part is stupid because I usually do not post on weekends.

[BloodCovenent]

He voted guilty, therefore he has blood on his hands. Not exactly hard to comprehend, and we've been over this point several times. Your "blood on hands" status doesn't clear or damn Ser Panda - in fact that's kind of the problem with this role: if scum can be on the jury (which, given that YOU were, I'm certain of) then all they have to do is vote guilty and BCov's role becomes useless.

SC and Doom where the only players NOT on juries before N4. That's why i chose between the two of them.

Actually... here's what i think we should do today, and i'm looking to see if others support it.

We should string up everyone that was pardoned or didn't get killed at night, Noc and SC. And throw in Sir Bastion or Ser Panda as well.

From there, we'll see what happens, i think we'll find scum between Noc and SC.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Or, alternatively, we could try actually going after the scum.

[guille2015]

He voted guilty, therefore he has blood on his hands. Not exactly hard to comprehend, and we've been over this point several times. Your "blood on hands" status doesn't clear or damn Ser Panda - in fact that's kind of the problem with this role: if scum can be on the jury (which, given that YOU were, I'm certain of) then all they have to do is vote guilty and BCov's role becomes useless.

This is true, but...

Ugh, i miss read my role PM. The mod answered by quoting my role pm. implying that i only get a guilty result on a player that was in jury duty if they had voted the condemned, and the defendant was found guilty. It did not say if they died. I interpreted it wrong, because of the first line of my role explanation.

Ice never confirmed that this scenario happens: Vote Guilty > Defendant found guilty > Defendant survives somehow > found with blood. This is BC's assumption, and interpretation of his role PM.

The reason I doubt this is because of the wording. Ice cannot confirm this as a mod because that would confirm mafias power. So, he cannot confirm anything. The wording says that "there was blood on their hands". That, as I understand it, means that they are responsible for the DEATH of a person. But if that person doesn't die, even if they wanted to, they should not have blood on their hands.

But I could be wrong, and If I am investigated, then I can be proven wrong, or with better results, proven right, and we have found scum.

Thinking about it, BC should ask Ice if he can target a defendant, even if they will die. If that's the case, then fine, I don't mind getting lynched.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Oh, okay, we're playing "outguess the deliberately vague mod" now? Cool.

[guille2015]

Oh, okay, we're playing "outguess the deliberately vague mod" now? Cool.

No, it's remove the vagueness of a result game.

Basically, there is really no one else that BC can investigate and not find Blood (per BC's own analysis) He looses nothing by investigating me tonight. If I show up as clean, then Ser Panda should not have had Blood on him, meaning he did something else.

@KoC: Do you agree with this statement at least? "If I show up as clean, then Ser Panda should not have had Blood on him, meaning he did something else."

@BC: Can you ask the mod if you can target a defendant.

[BloodCovenent]

Ugh, i miss read my role PM. The mod answered by quoting my role pm. implying that i only get a guilty result on a player that was in jury duty if they had voted the condemned, and the defendant was found guilty. It did not say if they died. I interpreted it wrong, because of the first line of my role explanation.

Ice never confirmed that this scenario happens: Vote Guilty > Defendant found guilty > Defendant survives somehow > found with blood. This is BC's assumption, and interpretation of his role PM.

The mod had confirmed with me regarding the above scenario.

[BloodCovenent]

Or, alternatively, we could try actually going after the scum.

They were scum enough to warrant a lynch at one point in time, why not again?