Newbie 1,276 (Game over!)

[Paschendale]

It's because Nhammen was so adamant about it being more useful today than tomorrow, and that the right time would be at the end of day 2. I don't necessarily agree that we should do it, but I want to know if he's still intent on that, and why.

[nhammen]

So you think his play in day 2 hasn't wavered even a little bit?

I think it's good the entire town think someones town, assuming they are town, but never unless we have a full confirm that is undeniable, will i not suspect someone, is this what you are trying to make me do nhammen?

I don't know if you are being extra melodramatic here, or if you are strawmanning. I am not telling you not to suspect someone, but it seems to me that you are trying to force suspicion of an un-suspicious player. It doesn't seem like honest suspicion. It seems faked.

b) your still assuming way too much, likely or not, you can't assume anything.

I'm not sure what you think I am assuming. I am making sure everything works out even in the worst case situation.

Agreed that this is right, but it's just a big ball of WIFOMic crap honestly, not useful.

Do you even know what WIFOM means? There was nothing close to WIFOM in that statement.

I'm not nervous about massclaiming, my claim will be the same no matter when we claim, i just believe from my experience it is best not to claim until LYLO.

From my experience, claiming before LYLO is a good idea, and in fact is standard practice on this site. The only reason I haven't pushed massclaim harder is because in a newbie game, the day before LYLO is day 2, which is too early. In any game even slightly larger I would be insisting on massclaim before the end of the day before LYLO/MYLO, rather than suggesting it.

I'm sorry but i can't get away without the feeling that you are highly insinuating that i am scum, and it makes me feel more un-easy cause you are insinuating all this, yet your still not voting anyone, it makes me feel like your trying to push a mis-lynch without trying to hard that it is obvious.

You have a point on the not voting anyone. I probably should be this far into the game. But A) this past week has been busy, and I didn't want my vote used for a lynch when I wasn't fully aware of what was going on, and B) I am seeing a few newbtown tells from both of my scum suspects, and don't know what to make of it. And I guess C) some of your behavior could be bad play rather than scummy, and so that further conflates the issue.

As for the rest, you got that I was insinuating you are scum? Really? Was that hard to figure out? That is one of the methods I use to apply pressure. I do kinda like that you pointed out my no vote though. However, I do question how you could think that what I was doing could be seen as non-obvious.

nhammen i will ask this of you, what is your read list as of this post right now.

I think that Cheery and Herr are town; City, Johnny, and Pasch are null leaning town, and ewo and Jason are scummy. But I need to do some isos to see if I have good enough reads. I will do that over the next few hours.

[nhammen]

@nh - in your post at the top of this page, could you reexplain the post that you were concerned that no one responded to? It looked like word salad to me and I didn't respond because I couldn't make good sense of it.

What happened to this logic? You're voting Pasch, instead of ewo, who, by this logic is more likely to be scum than Pasch.

Repeating ewo's comment. Although scum tend to parrot, this is actually an example of a case when scum would usually not do so. Assume City scum and Pasch town for the moment. Assuming ewo scum, City would not comment on this, because that would be encouraging Dog to vote his partner. Assuming ewo town, City would not comment on this because scum-City likes seeing the most protown player to be suspicious of a player that had previously been seen as town. Thus, if City is scum, his partner must be either Pasch, and he is trying to drive the vote away form his partner, or Dog (I find this highly unlikely), and he is reminding his partner that there is an inconsistency. All told, I find this to be a town read on City.

I would have put money on someone commenting on this... What does it mean that nobody has? If I was right about the City/Pasch possiblity, Pasch would have commented. Therefore, either Pasch/City is less likely, and City is even more town, or City is scum with someone else.

OK, at this point Cheery voted for Pasch, instead of ewo.
City was trying to convince Cheery to vote ewo instead.

Assuming both ewo and Pasch are town:
--ewo is an obvious mislynch. Scum would want Pasch targeted instead, so that Pasch would be lynched today, and ewo lynched tomorrow.
--City suggested the opposite of this, therefore, he is either bad at scum, or he is town.

Assuming ewo scum and Pasch town:
--the above logic holds even more. Why would scum drive someone onto their partner, when they are suspecting someone else?

Assuming ewo town and Pasch scum:
--Here is where scum want Cheery to GET OFF OF THEIR PARTNER. This is the only case City could be scum, according to my logic.

Assuming both ewo and Pasch scum:
--City is town because only two scum in the game.

Note: All of the above assumes Cheery is town. If Cheery is scum, then if City is his scumbuddy, City would know that this statement doesn't change a town player's read. However, A) I believe Cheery is town, and B) this is an odd exchange for scumpartners to have.


However, I assumed that if the City/Pasch team was the truth, then one of the two of them would come in and attack my logic. This didn't happen. If another player is scum, then that scum would come in and try to remove my pseudo-townread on City, or would say "hey, they could be a scumteam" and give more reasons.

[HerrRudi]

I've been very busy lately so sorry for the lack of activity. I haven't had posting time but I have been able to read a bit during this time. I will post and vote in a few hours.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE COUNT

ewo2 (4): Paschendale, JohnnyFarrar, Cheery Dog, CityElectric
nhammen (2): ewo2, JasonWazza
Not voting (2): HerrRudi, nhammen

With

8

players alive, it takes

5

players to lynch.

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2012-10-03 20:31:48).

[JasonWazza]

So you think his play in day 2 hasn't wavered even a little bit?

I think it's good the entire town think someones town, assuming they are town, but never unless we have a full confirm that is undeniable, will i not suspect someone, is this what you are trying to make me do nhammen?

I don't know if you are being extra melodramatic here, or if you are strawmanning. I am not telling you not to suspect someone, but it seems to me that you are trying to force suspicion of an un-suspicious player. It doesn't seem like honest suspicion. It seems faked.

It is real suspicion, why does it feel fake?

And to add to that, how come you are allowed to add suspicion to me in the same sort of way?

CD may be the most widely thought town read, that doesn't make him town, and with how his play today has gone i am doubting the town read.

b) your still assuming way too much, likely or not, you can't assume anything.

I'm not sure what you think I am assuming. I am making sure everything works out even in the worst case situation.

Why not work on lynching scum?

Agreed that this is right, but it's just a big ball of WIFOMic crap honestly, not useful.

Do you even know what WIFOM means? There was nothing close to WIFOM in that statement.

that is WIFOM, it isn't useful.

the JK, doc scenario is WIFOM, how can you not see that?

I'm not nervous about massclaiming, my claim will be the same no matter when we claim, i just believe from my experience it is best not to claim until LYLO.

From my experience, claiming before LYLO is a good idea, and in fact is standard practice on this site. The only reason I haven't pushed massclaim harder is because in a newbie game, the day before LYLO is day 2, which is too early. In any game even slightly larger I would be insisting on massclaim before the end of the day before LYLO/MYLO, rather than suggesting it.

Agreed that it is usually done the day before LYLO, that doesn't mean it is useful on here.

Most games i have played on here have been mass claims day 3 (newb games).

I don't see any extra use to doing it any earlier (except giving scum a direct shot at a PR).

I'm sorry but i can't get away without the feeling that you are highly insinuating that i am scum, and it makes me feel more un-easy cause you are insinuating all this, yet your still not voting anyone, it makes me feel like your trying to push a mis-lynch without trying to hard that it is obvious.

You have a point on the not voting anyone. I probably should be this far into the game. But A) this past week has been busy, and I didn't want my vote used for a lynch when I wasn't fully aware of what was going on, and B) I am seeing a few newbtown tells from both of my scum suspects, and don't know what to make of it. And I guess C) some of your behavior could be bad play rather than scummy, and so that further conflates the issue.

As for the rest, you got that I was insinuating you are scum? Really? Was that hard to figure out? That is one of the methods I use to apply pressure. I do kinda like that you pointed out my no vote though. However, I do question how you could think that what I was doing could be seen as non-obvious.

A) request that no-one lynches before you get back

i think you were trying to be non-obvious by not voting me, that may not be the case, but that is what i saw.

nhammen i will ask this of you, what is your read list as of this post right now.

I think that Cheery and Herr are town; City, Johnny, and Pasch are null leaning town, and ewo and Jason are scummy. But I need to do some isos to see if I have good enough reads. I will do that over the next few hours.

I will wait then for the proper reads, and hopefully a vote for once.

[Cheery Dog]

the JK, doc scenario is WIFOM, how can you not see that?

only if there is scum involved somewhere.

[JasonWazza]

the JK, doc scenario is WIFOM, how can you not see that?

only if there is scum involved somewhere.

*facepalm*

WIFOM IS THE JK AND DOC SCENARIO.

JK is in WIFOM to predict whether he is to protect the doc and leave himself open or block someone else

Mafia is in WIFOM to predict whether they should kill JK or Doc or someone else.

that is what WIFOM is!!!

[Cheery Dog]

oh right that side of the story (I was thinking about the day play in regards to the mass claim, and I assume nhammen was as well), the JK won't be dying anyway unless the doc decides to do something stupid.

with two mafia's still alive I guess it is a big WIFOM.

anyway back to the game at hand

However, I assumed that if the City/Pasch team was the truth, then one of the two of them would come in and attack my logic. This didn't happen. If another player is scum, then that scum would come in and try to remove my pseudo-townread on City, or would say "hey, they could be a scumteam" and give more reasons.

I think you might be expecting too much from us newbs. I also don't see many scum falling into that trap, when it does actually make sense for having city as a townread.

[HerrRudi]

Sorry for the delay!

I'll cut to the chase: I have an intent to hammer Ewo. That said the day is still young so I'm not feeling too hurried to do so.

I do not like how he put his hand's up and screamed look how town I am I do this all the time. Doing this after it was a successful tactic for Pasch to point out his scum slip. I do not like his last post:

i'm here. i've claimed. i don't have much more to say at the moment.

I have no idea why you wouldn't want to address everyone's concerns with you especially when you're at L-1. What makes this even worse is that in the previous post you said that you were going to look into your scum read on city. Did anything ever come from that? Or are you just pretending that your concerned about things without actually going through with that? Or did you forget that you had a scum suspect? There is really no way to slice this up that makes this post look like something town would say.

[JohnnyFarrar]

This day is dragging with the intent to hammer. We need to decide if we want to massclaim, either do it or don't, and then hammer.

[Paschendale]

Let's not do the massclaim. I don't think it will help that much. Especially not at this juncture. If someone has a claim that will vindicate Ewo, do that. Otherwise, let's just hammer and move on. Assuming that there's no more discussion to be had. If there is, let's do that. If not, let's not drag our feet.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I got nothing, and I'm also not feeling the massclaim.

Anybody object to a hammer?

[HerrRudi]

I'm hammering Ewo at midnight (Eastern time USA) if no one has anything to say about him. Nothing new is going to come out of this day.

[nhammen]

Well, my isolation read provided nothing new on scumreads. It did help me to determine townreads. I now have Cheery, Herr, City, and Johnny all as townreads. Scumreads are still ewo and Jason, and I am still undecided about Pasch. However, Jason has become less of a scumread, so ewo is definitely at the top of my list.

I have a lot of townreads, so PoE should have this game locked down.

Why not work on lynching scum?

I am trying, but that doesn't mean that scum will be lynched. And so I want to make sure everything works well for the town even in the worst case scenario.

that is WIFOM, it isn't useful.

the JK, doc scenario is WIFOM, how can you not see that?

Oh, OK. I didn't realize that is what you were referring to, and now I feel dumb. But that WIFOM is very useful. Obviously, it shouldn't be used often. Maybe 1/20 of the time or something. Something small enough that scum have to be dumb to kill the JK, because the doc will almost always have a successful protect. But that small amount of the time, it screws the scum. Also, I should point out that the WIFOM shouldn't be done if an odd number of players are left in the game, for theoretical reasons. But even if without the WIFOM, the JK can act as an investigator, and so is as powerful as a cop, even in the worst case. But all of this is moot, because the town seems to have agreed not to massclaim.

[nhammen]

Also, I'd like to point out that Jason's only comment today about ewo is that he doesn't know about ewo, and he has been searching for other players to go after rather than ewo. If ewo flips scum, I will be voting Jason tomorrow based off of association.

[nhammen]

Also i have to ask, why the vote for paschendale over ewo?

Although, would a scumpartner have said this? I'm not sure...

Also, if ewo flips town, my Jason read bumps up to null because of a few comments he has made about voting. But actually, from PoE, scum would be Jason and Pasch... which fits perfectly with the above comment. Hmmm...

[nhammen]

Whatever the case, we have a consensus. Almost everyone agrees on no massclaim. A majority agrees on lynching ewo. I'm dropping the hammer now.
VOTE: ewo

[JohnnyFarrar]

I have no problems with this hammer. Ewo, anything to say?

[ewo2]

I'm sorry I was too busy to post more. I was hoping I'd have time to either seek a replacement or do a full on post. Sadly I didn't. You'll find I'm town shortly.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE COUNT

ewo2 (5): Paschendale, JohnnyFarrar, Cheery Dog, CityElectric, nhammen

nhammen (2): ewo2, JasonWazza
Not voting (1): HerrRudi

With

8

players alive, it takes

5

players to lynch.

You decide this is taking way too long and give ewo2 the rope. Unfortunately, haste makes waste, as you're unable to come up with concrete evidence that ewo2 ever participated in any Mafia business.

ewo2, who was a

vanilla townie

, has been lynched on Day 2.

Night 2 ends in (expired on 2012-09-27 19:46:01).

[StrangerCoug]

It's surprising how silent crime can be. Two days ago, you started with nine and ended with eight. When you woke up yesterday, it was still eight. You went to bed last night with seven alive... and all seven of you wake up still breathing.

Nobody has been killed on Night 2.

Day 3 ends in (expired on 2012-10-18 20:04:24).

[Cheery Dog]

Are you sure there is actually mafia in this town?

So I do believe we need to do the massclaim today; Looking at who has been voted & how many times they've been voted during the past few days, my suggestion would be Johnny to start the popcorn off since his slot had received 5 votes during the course of the past 2 days. (though most of them were rvs), everyone else except me had all received 4 votes on their slots. (I've received none).

With two saves from the doctor and/or jailkeeper or kill stops from a JK (unless the scum are trying to play nightless), we should be able to easily win this game.

[Paschendale]

Agreed. Now's the time for some massclaiming.

I move that Jason go first.

[nhammen]

I would prefer either Jason or Pasch go first. This is based entirely off of PoE at this point.