[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Timeater]

eh, those arent really breakable. Probably should change #5 to 2 goons and a godfather so the maf dont know what the setup is off the bat.

[Whiskers]

Maybe a game-modifier. Like, take an already-open setup, run it as a Spirits version.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

That said... maybe a different smaller setup like

1x Doctor or Cop
1x Nurse or Deputy
5x Vanilla Town

vs

1x Gunsmith (positive on Cop/Deputy) or Pharmicist (positive on Doc/Nurse)
1x Goon

Just a rip on old F9

1x Mafia Gunsmith
1x Mafia Pharmacist

Can't kill and investigate in one night?

[gorckat]

That said... maybe a different smaller setup like

1x Doctor or Cop
1x Nurse or Deputy
5x Vanilla Town

vs

1x Gunsmith (positive on Cop/Deputy) or Pharmicist (positive on Doc/Nurse)
1x Goon

Just a rip on old F9

1x Mafia Gunsmith
1x Mafia Pharmacist

Can't kill and investigate in one night?

Do you mean the same player can't kill AND investigate or that the mafia faction can only kill or investigate?

If the latter, probably not worth ever investigating...

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

What's a mafia pharmacist do? I've never seen that role before

[LlamaFluff]

That said... maybe a different smaller setup like

1x Doctor or Cop
1x Nurse or Deputy
5x Vanilla Town

vs

1x Gunsmith (positive on Cop/Deputy) or Pharmicist (positive on Doc/Nurse)
1x Goon

Just a rip on old F9

1x Mafia Gunsmith
1x Mafia Pharmacist

Can't kill and investigate in one night?

Not sure, I lean yes because if goon is lynched day one its going to be near impossible to otherwise win. Even then its going to be rough given dual confirmed roles.

What's a mafia pharmacist do? I've never seen that role before

Invented role. Basically a gunsmith for doctors. This would get something like "has medical equipment/does not have medical equiment" depending on if they hit a doc/nurse or not.

with 7:2 setup and two semi-confirmed scum is going to have an uphill climb but its a 50% chance backup role is useless and they in 75% of cases will be able to find at least one role.

Worst case scum scenario would be something like cop/deputy vs pharmacist which having the investigator roll opposite of both town roles is a 25% chance (12.5% each way), which is same as hitting both.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

That said... maybe a different smaller setup like

1x Doctor or Cop
1x Nurse or Deputy
5x Vanilla Town

vs

1x Gunsmith (positive on Cop/Deputy) or Pharmicist (positive on Doc/Nurse)
1x Goon

Just a rip on old F9

1x Mafia Gunsmith
1x Mafia Pharmacist

Can't kill and investigate in one night?

Do you mean the same player can't kill AND investigate or that the mafia faction can only kill or investigate?

If the latter, probably not worth ever investigating...

The former. Sorry for not being clear on that.

[Whiskers]

Um... still doesn't make that much sense to investigate. Why investigate when you can just kill?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

The two mafia between them get one kill.

Thus, they get between them one investigation.

[Whiskers]

Oh-- right. k.

[Demon Core]

/aside

Your roles game me an idea.

Carbon-14 v2

2 Mafia Cops, 1 Mafia Cop and 1 Mafia Doctor, or 2 Mafia Doctors

1 Town Pharmacist
1 Town Gunsmith
3 Townies

Notes:
Scum PRs determined by random chance. NB - cop does not equal rolecop.
Pharmacist gets positive on docs.
Gunsmith gets positive on cops.

[IceGuy]

I really don't want to be scum in that setup.

[gorckat]

A variation of Carbon-14 where the scum can be any combo of Mafia/Werewolf.

[Whiskers]

Yeah, doesn't that make it even more townsided? Instead of being two PRs and only one of them is useful, you have two PRs and as few as one of them or as many as two of them are useful.
It would be wholly more interesting to have Fire/Ice lynchers: The "Pharmacist" (Fire Lyncher) wants to lynch the "Mafia Doctor" (Fire mafia). The other does the other. Make it always have one Fire, one Ice mafia member, add in about a hundred more VTs, play. Here, let me set that out for you in a nicer format:

Mafia:

Red Goon
Blue Goon

Town:

Red Lyncher (Wins if, and only if, the Red Goon is lynched. Exits the game upon winning.)
Blue Lyncher (Wins if, and only if, the Blue Goon is lynched. Exits the game upon winning.)
VT (9)
___

The question is, do we give the lynchers investigative powers? Maybe just confirm them to each other? Or nothing?

[Shamrock]

In that setup the lynchers are effectively just townies with an easier win condition.

[Whiskers]

Ah, right. Yeah, there has to be some way for the town to win, but the lynchers to lose.
My bad, my bad.

[Mehdi2277]

Make the lynchers compete against each other (only first one to win succeeds and when one loses it exits the game as well). You can also give them cop powers if desired only on their target. Not sure how well that would balance overall, but it makes it so lynchers don't just claim and act like townies (another condition could be they have to be on the wagon of their target).

[Whiskers]

Oh! What if they get cop powers for the opposite one? Like, Red Lyncher knows who Blue Goon is, so they steer lynches away from them? In THAT case, it would be a race to see who gets lynched first.

[Mehdi2277]

I think just telling them the opposite one at start works best there.

"Hello, player x. You are the Red Lyncher. You don't have any abilities. You do know that the Blue Goon is player y.

You win when the Red Goon is lynched. You lose if the Blue Goon is lynched first."

[Cheery Dog]

That's not going to be fair to the second scum, once one goon is gone, both lynches leave the game? that's just going to be easy association of who the red lyncher was saving from being lynched if the red goon was lynched first.
Though I guess if they stayed in the game they might end up lynched, but playing a game you've already lost isn't fun.

[Mehdi2277]

I'd expect the lynchers don't make it obvious who they're protecting (if they do then the rest of the town can just say that guys defending this one too much so one is likely a lyncher while the other is the goon). Part of the lynchers playing should involve not making it obvious who they're protecting since it could easily back fire on them before they even have to exit.

[Demon Core]

Yeah, doesn't that make it even more townsided? Instead of being two PRs and only one of them is useful, you have two PRs and as few as one of them or as many as two of them are useful.

I was thinking that in Carbon 14, when one scum flipped everyone knew whose results to trust. I was trying to break that, but I see your point.

How about this?

Carbon-15

1 Mafia Godfather
2 Mafia Cops or 1 Mafia Cop and 1 Mafia Doctor or 2 Mafia Doctors

1 Town Pharmacist
1 Town Gunsmith
4 Townies

Notes:
Pharmacist gets positive on docs.
Gunsmith gets positive on cops.
Godfather shows up negative on both.

[Shamrock]

Seems like any setup of that kind is going to be overly dependent on lucky guilties. You can never trust innocent results, so basically the whole setup's balance hinges on the investigators potentially getting guilties.

[Demon Core]

Seems like any setup of that kind is going to be overly dependent on lucky guilties. You can never trust innocent results, so basically the whole setup's balance hinges on the investigators potentially getting guilties.

Yeah, you're right. Forget it.

Whisker's idea is intriguing, but it seems too demanding (killing a

certain

scum?). EDIT: Medhi's idea would actually be good, though. Telling them the partner and then forcing the lyncher to make associative tells. Seems really town-sided though (you have two people who, between them, know the entire scumteam).

2 Mafiosi

2 Hunters

5 Townies

Notes:
Hunters have one shot daykill. Daykill does NOT end the day.
In order to win, hunters need to either a) kill scum with their shot or b) have a hand in lynching scum.
Hunters exit the game upon fulfilling their wincon. If this happens, mafia lose their nightkill for the subsequent night.

[Cheery Dog]

In that setup the lynchers are effectively just townies with an easier win condition.

Same reason goes to demon core's suggestion (though replace lynches with hunters and townies with 1x vigs)