[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Demon Core]

@Cheery Dog: Oh, yeah, you're right

2 Mafiosi

2 Bulletproof Hunters

5 Townies

Notes:
Hunters have one shot daykill, but do NOT have a vote. Daykill does NOT end the day.
In order to win, hunters need to hit scum with their daykill.
Hunters lose if they hit town with their daykill.
Hunters exit the game upon using their shot.

[gorckat]

That doesn't seem fun for the Hunters and hard for the town...

Hunters act scummy and/or obfuscate until LYLO, shoot a dude, probably win.

If Hunters shoot both goons, does the town still win? In that case, halfway random lynching down to MYLO, no lynch and let the hunters sort it out.

[Demon Core]

That doesn't seem fun for the Hunters and hard for the town...

Hunters act scummy and/or obfuscate until LYLO, shoot a dude, probably win.

If Hunters shoot both goons, does the town still win? In that case, halfway random lynching down to MYLO, no lynch and let the hunters sort it out.

Being a hunter doesn't sound fun?
Personally, I'd love to get the "hunter" role. Everyone knows I'm not scum, I can't get NKed, and I get a daykill.

The hunters are going to be outed early (they have no vote), so why would they act scummy? And why would they sabotage the town? If anything, they should be the ones with the most incentive to scumhunt.

Likewise, why would the town get lazy? If they do that, they're making the hunter's job harder.

And yes, if hunters shoot goons, town still wins.

[gorckat]

The Hunter role does

sound

awesome, but maybe I'm reading the setup as too much of an old man I definitely didn't read the town as winning with them the first time.

So they are really Bulletproof Innocent Child 1-shot Dayvigs (change Hunter to Superhero ).

I don't think the goons should lose their kill if a townie gets shot.

[Demon Core]

So they are really Bulletproof Innocent Child 1-shot Dayvigs (change Hunter to Superhero ).

Yes, it's a lot of power, but it's also a lot of pressure. Miss, and you they lose. Also, if town lynches scum before either hunter gets a shot off, one of them has to lose.

I don't think the goons should lose their kill if a townie gets shot.

Yeah, I thought about that and took that out.

[gorckat]

Yes, it's a lot of power, but it's also a lot of pressure. Miss, and you they lose. Also, if town lynches scum before either hunter gets a shot off, one of them has to lose.

Hmm...hadn't thought about this.

But since they win with town, both should claim and town should help them...but this creates a point of do town lynch the scummiest or the townies that aren't quite the scummiest...

Hmm...would NOT want to be scum here, I think.

[LlamaFluff]

@Cheery Dog: Oh, yeah, you're right

2 Mafiosi

2 Bulletproof Hunters

5 Townies

Notes:
Hunters have one shot daykill, but do NOT have a vote. Daykill does NOT end the day.
In order to win, hunters need to hit scum with their daykill.
Hunters lose if they hit town with their daykill.
Hunters exit the game upon using their shot.

I dont like due to luck involved. It has the same flaw as AitP has in that someone can essentially claim scum D1 and win due to luck of a pick. I mean, I could technically go "Shoot X" first post as a hunter and I have a 22% win chance. Its not *high* but its possible.

I would say include hunters being able to win if they are alive when town achieves their win condition. Otherwise its just unfair to them.

The C-14 modification one isnt that bad either. Its just C-14 that gives a little more edge to the scum (maybe).

[Demon Core]

I dont like due to luck involved. It has the same flaw as AitP has in that someone can essentially claim scum D1 and win due to luck of a pick. I mean, I could technically go "Shoot X" first post as a hunter and I have a 22% win chance. Its not *high* but its possible.

Well, you

could

do that, but that wouldn't be very satisfying. Wouldn't you, you know, want to play the game? See how sharp your scumhunting skills are ... etc? Also, did you miss the part about hunters losing if they miss? You could really see people taking a 20/80 chance like that?

I would say include hunters being able to win if they are alive when town achieves their win condition. Otherwise its just unfair to them.

...then I fear that they won't use their shot as wisely. How about this?

More Pressure

2 Mafiosi

2 Bulletproof Hunters

3 Townies

Notes:
Hunters' identities are announced by the mod at the beginning of the game.
Hunters have one shot daykill, but do NOT have a vote to start out. Daykill does NOT end the day.
Hunters can instantly win if they hit scum with their daykill, at which point they exit the game.
If hunters miss on their daykill, they forfeit their bulletproof status and gain the power to vote. They win and exit the game if they have a hand in lynching scum.

Actually, scratch that. That game up there

would

encourage the "just shoot into the crowd" strategy, because even if both hunters miss the first day, they have a 2/3 chance of lynching scum that day. Not a good way to reward a missed shot, IMO. I will adjust the numbers, though, because the "less pressure" counterpart to this game has 3 Mafia vs. 2 confirmed town and 3 townies.

More Pressure

2 Mafiosi

2 Bulletproof Hunters

3 Townies

Notes:
Hunters' identities are announced by the mod at the beginning of the game.
Hunters have one shot daykill, but do NOT have a vote. Daykill does NOT end the day.
Hunters win if they hit scum with their shot. They lose if they hit town.

[gorckat]

Actually- mass claim day one, no lynch.

Either townies die at night...or they don't. Hunters win.

(Not that mass claiming a game with all townies means much, but you get the idea.)

There has to be something else to make it work.

[Demon Core]

Actually- mass claim day one, no lynch.

Either townies die at night...or they don't. Hunters win.

(Not that mass claiming a game with all townies means much, but you get the idea.)

There has to be something else to make it work.

Compulsive lynch?

[Whiskers]

It's just very kingmakery. It's not fun to play as a VT in that setup. One (or in this case, two) player(s) are superhero-gods and everyone else is normal. It gives one (or in this case, two) person(s) a huge amount of power and town really can't do anything. It's based entirely around the Hunter role, and the whole game depends on him (them).

Like, what if PMysterious, or RapidCanyon, got into that game as VTs? What are they going to do? If they look bad, Hunters will shoot them, losing the game for the whole town.
It's just not fun.
Or at least, I wouldn't play it.

[drmyshotgun]

Like, what if PMysterious, or RapidCanyon, got into that game as VTs? What are they going to do? If they look bad, Hunters will shoot them, losing the game for the whole town.
It's just not fun.
Or at least, I wouldn't play it.

Truth.

[Whiskers]

And what if one of those players drew Hunter? "YOU MUST HATE JIGGLYPUFF! *PEW*!" and "I'M SO CAUGHT UP IN MY OWN READS THAT I CAN'T SEE ANYTHING ELSE! *PEW!*"

And-- okay, what if town

won

, even? It wouldn't

feel

like a win, because I, the VT, wholly dependant on the Hunters to shoot correctly, don't play any real part in winning the game and don't feel rewarded when town wins.
Same with mafia. I imagine mafia playing this setup cowering in a corner and hoping the Hunters don't shoot them. If they win, it's not because they're clever or smart or lucky, it's because the Hunters shot wrong.

[drmyshotgun]

And what if one of those players drew Hunter? "YOU MUST HATE JIGGLYPUFF! *PEW*!" and "I'M SO CAUGHT UP IN MY OWN READS THAT I CAN'T SEE ANYTHING ELSE! *PEW!*"

And-- okay, what if town

won

, even? It wouldn't

feel

like a win, because I, the VT, wholly dependant on the Hunters to shoot correctly, don't play any real part in winning the game and don't feel rewarded when town wins.
Same with mafia. I imagine mafia playing this setup cowering in a corner and hoping the Hunters don't shoot them. If they win, it's not because they're clever or smart or lucky, it's because the Hunters shot wrong.

Truth lies with Whiskers.

[Demon Core]

It's just very kingmakery. It's not fun to play as a VT in that setup. One (or in this case, two) player(s) are superhero-gods and everyone else is normal. It gives one (or in this case, two) person(s) a huge amount of power and town really can't do anything. It's based entirely around the Hunter role, and the whole game depends on him (them).

Like, what if PMysterious, or RapidCanyon, got into that game as VTs? What are they going to do? If they look bad, Hunters will shoot them, losing the game for the whole town.
It's just not fun.
Or at least, I wouldn't play it.

Townies can still lynch without the Hunters. Since hunters don't have a vote, it would only take 3 to lynch (so, vote-wise, you start off in 5 man LYLO with 2 extra third parties).

You have a point, but I can't make this setup VI-proof (I guess it would be up to the mod to keep known VIs out, they do it for every other game anyway). Yes, sometimes bad vigilantes lose for the town; does that mean we should ditch the vig role altogether? I'm just designing this game under the assumption that everyone is playing toward their win condition, keeping with the spirit of the game, and not being jackasses (hunters shooting randomly in their first post would be a jackass move). And if we need to start designing games to be jackass-proof, I think we need to stick to mountainous.

And what if one of those players drew Hunter? "YOU MUST HATE JIGGLYPUFF! *PEW*!" and "I'M SO CAUGHT UP IN MY OWN READS THAT I CAN'T SEE ANYTHING ELSE! *PEW!*"

And-- okay, what if town

won

, even? It wouldn't

feel

like a win, because I, the VT, wholly dependant on the Hunters to shoot correctly, don't play any real part in winning the game and don't feel rewarded when town wins.
Same with mafia. I imagine mafia playing this setup cowering in a corner and hoping the Hunters don't shoot them. If they win, it's not because they're clever or smart or lucky, it's because the Hunters shot wrong.

I tried to balance that by giving the hunter only one shot to win the game (in the hopes that maybe it would be safe to assume that at least one of them would wait until there's a flip or two before shooting).

As for the whole "winning as scum" thing, how is that different from normal? You're usually trying to stay on the good side of only one or two town loudmouths anyway. How would this game be any different?

[Demon Core]

OK, thinking on it, it's still town sided.

More Pressure

3 Mafiosi

2 Hunters

4 Townies

Notes:
Nightless, compulsive lynch.
Scum have daytalk.
Hunters' identities are announced by the mod at the beginning of the game.
Hunters have one shot daykill and no vote. Daykill does NOT end the day.
Hunters win if they hit scum with their shot. They lose if they hit town.
Hunters exit the game upon using their shot.

There, now town pretty much starts out in a 7 man LYLO. This way, it's actually optimal for hunters to wait until after at least one flip to shoot. It gives town a chance even after a mislynch. And, the scumteam cannot be entirely destroyed by the hunters, meaning that the town has to lynch correctly at least once, meaning that the VTs have a purpose.

[Whiskers]

So: Day 1: Lynch VT. 3 Mafia, 2 Hunters, 3 VTs.
Day 2: Shoot VT. 3 Mafia, 1 Hunter, 2 VTs.
Scum wins, because it outnumbers Townies?

Or, continuing that day,
Day 2: Shoot Mafia. 2 Mafia, 2 VTs.
Then... Lynch Mafia, 1/2, or lynch VT, 2/1.
What is the mafia wincondition? Because like this, it has to completely eliminate the town.

[Demon Core]

Scum would win day 2 after the hunter shoots the VT.

Mafia has to have 50% of living population at any point to win.

[Whiskers]

OK. I wasn't sure because they don't have a factional kill. I guess having 50% or more means they have the votes, though.

Eh.

still

the game is won or lost at the hands of the hunters. It's really beneficial for the first lynch to be a mislynch, because they have a better shot at hitting the mafia.
Yes, now mafia doesn't have to worry about being completely eradicated by Hunters, but they're a lot stronger (for example, Day 1-or-2 LyLo, depending on when the Hunters shoot; If a hunter shoots a VT Day 1, it's LyLo. If both hunters shoot VTs Day 1, it's game over).

You want it to be more balanced? Make the VTs not feel like they got fucked? Here's your setup.

More Pressure

3 Mafiosi

2 Hunters

8

Townies

Notes:
Nightless, compulsive lynch.
Scum have daytalk.
Hunters' identities are announced by the mod at the beginning of the game.
Hunters have one shot daykill and no vote. Daykill does NOT end the day.
Hunters win if they hit scum with their shot. They lose if they hit town.
Hunters exit the game upon using their shot.

Although personally, I'd only have ONE superhero-god role.

[Demon Core]

Split the difference at six? I feel like yours is town sided. Also, get rid of the nightless mechanic.

My opinion is that the individual is better at hitting scum than the group. This all depends on the individuals getting the kill, though, which will make the game swingy.

Don't underestimate the power the dayvig has to screw scum over, though.

[Whiskers]

Don't underestimate the power the dayvig has to screw scum over, though.

Don't underestimate the power the dayvig has to screw

the power the dayvig has

Power. Dayvig.

Remember: You're trying to make this setup really fun for one (or two) people to play.
How would you feel about giving the Mafia a gunsmith, in that 8-VT game?
Like:
Not Nightless
Vigs Not Bullet Proof (Maybe 1-shot Vest)
Vigs Not announced at gamestart (maybe announced to each other)
This actually makes everything a lot

less

Hunter-sided, so maybe DON'T include a mafia gunsmith after all.
Oh-- and Mafia compulsive kill, if you want. That way, you can't No-Kill to make it look like you hit a Vig.

[Demon Core]

...well, I would revise this set up but I give up now. I've bastardized it to the point where it's pretty much a 7 player vengeful with the venge shot in some other random asshole's hands.

Stupid idea, forget it.

[Whiskers]

Alternatively, you could try to balance it with more power roles on either side-- more common ones, like a cop or something. I didn't go that route because the Hunter was the main focus and I figured you'd feel cheated if he wasn't the only PR.
Since you feel cheated anyway, what about something like this:

3Mafia
2Hunter (Bulletproof, Oneshot Dayvigs, Exit the game after shooting. Shoot mafia, win. Shoot town, lose.)
5VTs
2Docs (Oneshot Day Docs; protect one target for one entire day from all Hunter shots)

I guess the problem there is that there's a big benefit to docs claiming. Okay-- 6 VTs, 1 Doc. Problem solved.

How do you like that?

[Shamrock]

What if the hunters needed their target goon AND the other hunter to die? In this variant they would lose if the town won before the other hunter was dead.

[Shamrock]

What if the hunters needed their target goon AND the other hunter to die? In this variant they would lose if the town won before the other hunter was dead.