Ladies Night 2: No Cover -- (Game Over)

[Eidolon]

tammy, what are your scum reads atm? still huntress?

[RedCoyote]

Katty Bard has offered to replace MathGirl277. Please welcome her!

Prodding flinter.

---

Vote Count 1 - 9

• PiggyGal15

  (5) (DrippingGoofball - Seastormjt -

  camn

  - Amrun - Telo - Fujiko)
  
  
  Seastormjt
  (3) (Katty Bard -

  Huntress

  - Sucrose - Brandi)
  
  
  CityElectric
  (2) (camn - Eidolon)
  
  
  camn
  (1) (

  CityElectric

  - flinter -

  Eidolon

  )
  
  
  springlullaby
  (1) (Bunnylover)
  
  
  Brandi
  (1) (springlullaby)
  
  
  Huntress
  (1) (Tammy)
  
  
  Telo
  (1) (RachMarie)
  
  
  Sucrose
  (1) (

  Amrun

  - Huntress)
  
  
  DrippingGoofball
  (1) (CityElectric)
  
  
  RachMarie
  (0) (

  Telo

  )
  
  
  Eidolon
  (0) (

  Fujiko

  )
  
  
  Not Voting
  (1) (PiggyGal15)

With eighteen alive, it takes ten to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2012-10-11 12:10:00)

[Tammy]

Anyways, hey tammy, it's not just that she didn't understand, but she voted DGB instead of asked about it, and the reasoning for the vote seemed over justified, and a bit awkward.

Disagree. If you thought she didn't understand then you should know why it's a bad vote. Also, you didn't ask her about it and voted her, so why are you using her not asking DGB about it against her? I don't know how the reasoning for the vote seemed over justified, but I think this reasoning for the vote seems over justified.

I think the fact that she voted for DGB INSTEAD of ask her about it is a pretty strong town tell. She's new, newbscum tend to be nervous, and DGB has been active and aggressive, exactly the type of person that newbscum tend to not provoke and catch the attention of by voting. The fact that she came at her rather aggressively by pointing out that it was a fake, and in her eyes therefore lying, reads really town. Likewise does the utter confusion over being voted for it.

Regarding scum reads: Not a whole lot to go on atm, but Telo and Huntress. Also, Mathgirl dropped a bit due to lack of activity. The day I directed a question to her, she had been viewing the forum for a bit. Viewing the forum doesn't necessarily mean viewing the game, but not coming back is eh. She's been replaced now though so we'll see.

[flinter]

Sorry people, I'm very busy and I simply didn't think of this game for a little.

This is really interesting because I think this would be a valid scumtell if the evidence backed it up, but it doesn't. flinter, how often have you played with camn/dgb?

I haven't. It's just the way camn turned to drippinggoofball so quickly, but then didn't follow up when the game really started. Of course, she did that after I posted that, so it all now looks rather silly what I thought up.

And, while rereading, there is the thing that I see too many scum. Huntress would be my best bet at the moment, I really don't like her 154. Tammy's comment on this is not exactly what I mean, but the fact that that post stood out to her as well makes me feel good about tammy. I'm not happy with how Camn is playing, call me silly, but I dont. Telo feels like she takes a lot of time to go nowhere at all. I don't think springlullaby is town. She uses lists more, but as town not as early as page 8 in the games I checked. Cityelectrics response to DGB's daykill was awkward to say the least. Post 202 by sucrose is something I also really worry about.

But if I add all that together, we've nearly lost already if they are all scum.

[Eidolon]

I think the fact that she voted for DGB INSTEAD of ask her about it is a pretty strong town tell. She's new, newbscum tend to be nervous, and DGB has been active and aggressive, exactly the type of person that newbscum tend to not provoke and catch the attention of by voting. The fact that she came at her rather aggressively by pointing out that it was a fake, and in her eyes therefore lying, reads really town. Likewise does the utter confusion over being voted for it.

Hmm. That actually makes sense. I had a slight town read on her before, so

unvote

Flinter, out of those in your list, who is most scummy? Is it still camn and what about her play don't you like?

Still thinking along the lines of telo-fujiko-spring for scum options.

Fujiko, what do you think of piggy's reaction to dgb's gambit? was it sincere?

[flinter]

I think huntress is the most scummy now, followed by sucrose. After that, I don't really know.

As for camn, it's also stuff like this:

Your 'feelings' don't even make sense.

How on earth did I help derail the piggy wagon?
And when did I take heat for it?

Keep trying... you can create a crap case if you try very hard

Oh fun, insults instead of logic!

I await your more detailed explanation.

Both the smily and the exclamation mark seem to have a similar function. And I don't think town would use them here.

[Fujiko]

I think the fact that she voted for DGB INSTEAD of ask her about it is a pretty strong town tell. She's new, newbscum tend to be nervous, and DGB has been active and aggressive, exactly the type of person that newbscum tend to not provoke and catch the attention of by voting. The fact that she came at her rather aggressively by pointing out that it was a fake, and in her eyes therefore lying, reads really town. Likewise does the utter confusion over being voted for it.

Hmm. That actually makes sense. I had a slight town read on her before, so

unvote

Flinter, out of those in your list, who is most scummy? Is it still camn and what about her play don't you like?

Still thinking along the lines of telo-fujiko-spring for scum options.

Fujiko, what do you think of piggy's reaction to dgb's gambit? was it sincere?

I like Tammy's post 252 as well. I was wishy-washy about CityElectric voting; I feel better now.

Piggy's reaction: eh. A bit scummy - she likes to talk, and she's not doing much talking at all in those two posts (they are the two shortest posts of hers.) Given her talk about reactions, it's quite possible she's just playing along... Also, "I'm vanilla town" is in the present tense, not past, although I may be reading too much into that.

[Sucrose]

Alright,

unvote

. I was hoping to talk to Mathgirl about why she was still RVS voting, but it's obvious why now.

I knew the Dayvig was fake, I was just trying to play along. I think Tammy is town, and her defense of City Electric makes sense. I thought Eidolon's response to the gambit seemed fairly town. I'm leery of Telo.

[DrippingGoofball]

Aww shucks I get a kick when players fall for the old over-used dayvig gambit. I thought everyone was immune to it. I guessed wrong!

Gonna cut BaconGirl15 some slack now.

VOTE: Telo

[PiggyGal15]

I should really stop posting/reading/doing anything with mafiascum on my phone :/ I feel stupid thinking there could actually be a day vig...

[DrippingGoofball]

I wondered in the shower last night why the Piggy wagon moved so slowly. Because if she were scum, she'd be bus'ed like mad, and the wagon would have progressed a lot faster. It bugged me. I saw more white-knighting than bus'ing, which is what I'd expect if she were town.

Hence there is scum among those that jumped on their white horses when it looked like the wagon was gaining traction.

I'm off to play badminton. If someone can look up the white knights in the mean time, that'd be great. If not I'll get to it tomorrow AM.

BUT AREN'T YOU CURIOUS???

[DrippingGoofball]

Piggy is confirmed town BTW.

[DrippingGoofball]

Piggy, be an angel and vote Telo.

[PiggyGal15]

In other news, Telo just got picked up by my scumdar. VOTE: Telo (specifically for 238... Telo, do you know something we do not?)
P-edit: DGB!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP NINJA'ING ME!!! It makes me sad.

[DrippingGoofball]

Dayvig: Piggy

This dayvig doesn't end the day and we still have a lynch.

@DGB: You do realize that all the possible roles are in the OP and none of them makes a mention of a dayvig? So, unless there's some rule I'm not aware of, this is fake.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

This could be nervous noob-scum looking up the role list if Piggy is her buddy... but since Piggy is coming up clean, that's just a noob reaction.

[Amrun]

I doubt piggy would be self-aware enough to fake that. It's not 100%, but she's most likely town.

VOTE: Sucrose

I also support the CE wagon.

[DrippingGoofball]

Why do you think Sucrose is scum???

[Amrun]

Sucrose is trying her best to be neutral and not offend anyone; makes a vote based on an entirely false premise, then backs down on it immediately. Knowing I am voting her, after seeing me express suspicion of piggy, buddies me.

[Eidolon]

Piggy is confirmed town BTW.

finally. THANK YOU!

Let's make some analysis of the votes on Piggy. Getting right on that.

[Brandi]

The thread that I linked to you even make a post agreeing with my opinions.

Okay, now I need you to quote it. Because I have never, AND WILL NEVER, agree that moving out of RVS is a scumtell. I call absolute bullshit on this.

No. I said you agreed with my OPINIONS.
which was this:

When they're scummy.

Also, somewhere between early-earlygame and earlygame. Scums are actually scummier midgame but by then you've conditioned yourself not to notice.

I agree with this so completely that it's not even funny. Also with what LlamaFluff posted above.

Scum are the scummiest in early game, I think, but you need some flips to re-read with to really see it clearly.

Further more, you keep claiming statistics back you up, but they don't. If you find one - literally ONE - person that agrees that moving out of RVS is a scumtell, I'll drop it.

You are putting words in my mouth that were not there.
I never said this. I never said anything about moving out of RVS being a scumtell. I never said I had statistics on it.
I said that statistics showed that most scum can be caught by going back and reading the RVS.
Which in turn... would make deliberately trying to end RVS scummy- depending on the context.

And I've finally figured out what bothers me about this; going through all of this just to make a point that you don't have stances to take on Sucrose and DGB puts this all firmly into the territory of IIoA. What are your reads on DGB and Sucrose?

Also, what don't you like about cityelectric's posting?

I said that I read DGB as town. Null for sucrose at this point (I have not read anything further than this post)
and cityelectrics recent post at the time of me saying that. her vote and her reasoning.


I will catch up in a bit just got back from a friends with little to no sleep but I wanted to address this specifically before going on.

[Eidolon]

Please bear with this quote heavy post. it's critical to keep the quotes in so we can really analyse the wagon of a pretty clear townie.

Sucrose is

trying her best to be neutral and not offend anyone;

this is what i find wrong with fujiko. more on her later.

VOTE: DrippingGoofBall
Your screen name makes me think of boogers

OMG! So it's not just me?!

FOS: CityElectric, Brandi, Telo, Amrun, Huntress, Tammy and camn

for all confirming before me, very scummy thing to do.

VOTE: PiggyGal15
Because I'm always the Day 1 mislynch when I'm town May as well get it over with...

Spoiler: *sigh*

DUCK! Haha, get it?

Pokemon reference...

Sigh... duck... Psyduck... yeah...? Funny?

Thanks camn, but this one here is scum.

A bunch of FOSs, and a self-vote?

And then the scum laments that they always get lynched day 1. I smell a fear of "disappointing the team" from the get-go.

Obviously, from the FOS list, her partners are at least CityElectric and Huntress.

VOTE: PiggyGal15

Jump the wagon off and getting us out of RVS quickly. Good. town.

I actually agree with DGB here. It's obvious that pg was going for a joke, but it comes off as awkward and I think it's trying to hide something.

VOTE: piggygal

Helping to get us out of rvs. gives good reasoning for early on. townish.

vote: PiggyGal15

Did a meta check, she has made long introductory/weird posts before as scum.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=18721

@Amrun: Statistics show that most scum is caught during the RVS stage.

Reading meta, noticed a contradiction. shows she's actually voting based off her own reasoning. townish.

About the RVS thing... Not really? Usually you want to get out of RVS as quickly as possible, I find. I mean, I've found a few minor tells that occur only in RVS, but if RVS ends naturally then it's nice that it's ended, and that was pretty natural to me.

That said.

Vote: Piggy

I do agree with the accusations, and I really dislike that she hasn't actually done anything about them, and that she hasn't moved her vote to try to actually hunt :/

She gave this reason kind of prematurely. piggy hasn't even had the opportunity to respond to the pressure yet. Slightly scummy.

MY VOTE IS LONELY

I don't understand the seastorm wagon at all. Biggest pusher please explain.

VOTE: piggy

Amrun didn't give a reasoning here, but she had given one not a couple posts above this. This actually seems townish to me because she's not worried about over justifying anything.

Telo votes are good.

Based on Post 213 I know I won't lose any tears over a Piggy mislynch. I have no words.

Yes, I know and I agree. If anyone else had posted what I did I'd be prompting them for a vote as well so
VOTE: piggy

I find it weird that she chooses to "agree" to a piggy "MISLYNCH" in response to the same post as being called out for being scummy. Also.. this response just seems... i dunno.. so strange. Scummy.

I don't like post 130 isn't unflattering. It's honest and honesty reads town.

Point.

@ Fujiko: Is Eidolon still your top scum read? What did you make of her reply to your post 102?

Eidolon's reply - while I don't really agree with it, it made post 100 make sense to me.

Is she still my top read? No. I've been looking for somewhere else where I'm comfortable putting my vote more than anything.

Piggy's post 213 looks pretty bad to me, honestly. (Although I don't get the seastorm wagon either.) Until then, she looked like someone who was new. (Many of us in this game aren't far behind.) I don't like the scum philosophy bit at all. I was looking at the self-vote as a nervous joke, not a reaction test - as a reaction test, the nervous newish player makes less sense.

VOTE: PiggyGal15

I don't like that she had to be called out for where her vote was in order to change it (to the most obvious wagon.) This paparapgh is way over justified because she gives reasoning for not just thinking piggy was scum, but because why she had a town read on her before, and then changed it. this shows that she's concerned about what people think of her/ what they will think with a mislynch. plus she doesn't explain what is scummy, just points out some things she doesn't like, which shows lack of true understanding/conviction of the wagon.

This, plus her whole ISO, which is really wishy-washy and appeasing, makes me feel good about a

Vote: Fujiko

she's been scared to push or voice opinions. Most of her posts seem to be agreeing (buddying? with people.) She hasn't been scumhunting. she put her vote on me, with reason, but never pushed me or followed her lead at all. she let her vote sit latent and moved it to the easy wagon once asked about it.

I think i missed a camn quote on the wagon analysis too... but i already talked about that, so whatever.

[camn]

What about the white knight analysis?
Or do you disagree with DGB in 260?

[Eidolon]

More on fujiko:

Fujiko, what do you think of piggy's reaction to dgb's gambit? was it sincere?

Piggy's reaction: eh. A bit scummy - she likes to talk, and she's not doing much talking at all in those two posts (they are the two shortest posts of hers.) Given her talk about reactions, it's quite possible she's just playing along...

Also, "I'm vanilla town" is in the present tense, not past, although I may be reading too much into that.

This looks so much like she doesn't really believe in piggy scum, but is attempting to find reasoning to be on her mislynch, without having to take the blame for it later on.

PEDIT: what is white knighting?

[Eidolon]

Do you mean egging it on without voting?

That's definitely something to consider.

[PiggyGal15]

I think "white knighting" in this case, is those who were defending me blatantly.