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Post Post #13600 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:09 am

Post by mykonian »

yeah, fuck the cheating. Minimaps were available, and yeah, that's going to entice people who want to win to look at them. Sounds like it's Riot's problem.

scotmany12 wrote:It's just kinda upsetting that there is one giant mob going after a lot of the Asian teams.


And this. You'd think people learn.

It was rather surprising to see loads of threads on the NA-LoL forums about the "cheating" and perhaps one or two about the games having to restart etc. Goes rather beyond fanboyism. Scot is completely right.
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Post Post #13601 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:17 am

Post by Knight of Cydonia »

Nexus wrote:
Knight of Cydonia wrote:At bare minimum, the TSM/AF game should be replayed due to both teams being under suspicion of cheating.
CLG.eu vs. WE will presumably be played without this issue when they redo it, so I'd leave that.


And when do you propose a time to do that?


Riot are presumably scheduling the CLG.eu/WE rematch - they could put the TSM/AF one next to it.
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Post Post #13602 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:43 am

Post by Bub Bidderskins »

I just tried out Kayle for the first time.

First game: Put ult on Katarina while she was being focused. Kat got a triple kill. Ulted Cho in teamfight later; we won teamfight.

Second game: Karthus' ult was going down, and I saw a teammate at ~150 health. I flash-ulted them a fraction of a second before the karthus ult came down. In the next team fight, I ulted somebody who was being focused, and healed another person. We won the team fight. The person I healed came out with less than 150 health, and the person I ulted came out with ~200 health.

Kayle makes me feel so awesome.
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Post Post #13603 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:16 am

Post by TheButtonmen »

xRECKONERx wrote:Nexus, Riot avoids conflict if at all possible. There is clear evidence of cheating and they are just sweeping it under the rug


What clear evidence?

Serious question, I don't use reddit/LoL much, I follow LoL on Team Liquid and the leading opinion there at the moment is this is just standard TSM melodrama.
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Post Post #13604 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:18 am

Post by Nexus »

There's enlarged images of a WE player and an AF player looking behind them/to the side, presumably to look at the minimap during the pause.

There's also a picture/twitter proof of Dyrus looking, but that was OK because AF had done it first.
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Post Post #13605 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:24 am

Post by Kcdaspot »

Nexus wrote:but that was OK because AF had done it first.

*shakes head slowly*
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Post Post #13606 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:29 am

Post by scotmany12 »

Nexus wrote:There's also a picture/twitter proof of Dyrus looking, but that was OK because AF had done it first.

What...every picture that is available has Dyrus looking (during the pause) way before Woong did (after the restart).

EDIT: Dyrus also lied about only seeing a black minimap (korean stream shows otherwise) and deleted his tweet when he said he looked at the minimap. But nope, AF/WE/IG are the only team that did something wrong.

And people tilting their heads is not clear evidence. At all. I think both TSM/AF did cheat. I think pretty much every team probably looked at the minimap due to how easy it looks like. But there is no clear evidence. But really, the only way to prove it would be to listen in on every teams communication during the games. Whether Riot did that, I don't know.
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Post Post #13607 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:37 am

Post by Nexus »

I was being sarcastic btw. I don't really like Dyrus.

There was also rumours of TSM not having their headsets completely covering their ears, idk about those ones though.

Rumour has it the games will be played on Wednesday.
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Post Post #13608 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:40 am

Post by Nexus »

Trans rights are human rights.
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Post Post #13609 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:42 am

Post by Nexus »

Image
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Post Post #13610 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:55 am

Post by scotmany12 »

Gotcha nexus. My bad.

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends ... ed/c6j3u7u

That is where you can see dyrus and chaox tilting their heads. Then they change their opening strat in the remake (regi going top with everyone else). This happens before Woong looked. If you think one team cheated you should think both teams cheated.
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Post Post #13611 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:09 am

Post by Glork »

They had booths at MLG Raleigh an piped white noise into them... I have no idea why Riot would make any other kind of choice here, especially considering the collusion that occurred at MLG Raleigh. As much as I hate to admit it, the perception of rampant cheating is something they hurts eSports today, and all of this is just proof of why that opinion exists. You cheat at football or basketball or any real sport, you get fined and/or suspended. A verbal warning or a slap on the wrist won't do anything to deter cheating. I am still of the opinion that Riot Games should have disqualified Dignitas and Curse from NA Regionals due to their actions at MlG Raleigh, and I think they should punish TSM, WE, and Azubu here.

At the same time, Riot needs to take more preventative measures to prevent cheating before it can happen. This is pretty unacceptable IMHO. Try your best to make sure people can't cheat, and if they do, throw the book at them to show that you won't tolerate compromising the game/sport that you've worked so hard to build.
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Post Post #13612 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:19 am

Post by Nexus »

The whole outdoor thing just didn't work - the crowd atmosphere was crap, the sun was a pain, and no soundproof booths.
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Post Post #13613 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:21 am

Post by mykonian »

"You cheat at football or basketball or any real sport, you get fined and/or suspended. "

Not really. That's why there's always discussion about the refs. It's never 100%.

Which is why you should try to avoid giving them the opportunity to cheat.
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Post Post #13614 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:21 am

Post by quadz08 »

I am really not sure why they went for an outdoor arena. The only thing I can think of is that it was cheaper but come on now. Don't be stupid.
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Post Post #13615 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:23 am

Post by mykonian »

Doubt it is actually cheaper. Could it just be because it might be cool and might attract a different and larger crowd?
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Post Post #13616 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:45 am

Post by Kcdaspot »

http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/880380

teemo says this was completely salvageable at time of surrender

miss fortune kept on killing me and bot just couldnt hold thier own.. and teemo kept on killing their teemo simultaniously when thier teemo killed him.

i dont think it was salvageable with this team.. i know it can be done but... no one had enough skill to beat them out.
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Post Post #13617 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:55 am

Post by Kcdaspot »

also doesnt help that iriala d/c'd and didnt come back
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Post Post #13618 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:14 am

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Post Post #13619 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:15 am

Post by Nexus »

What's he say? I'm on my netbook and can't watch videos atm.
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Post Post #13620 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:18 am

Post by Bub Bidderskins »

quadz08 wrote:I am really not sure why they went for an outdoor arena. The only thing I can think of is that it was cheaper but come on now. Don't be stupid.


I think they wanted to fit more people in.
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Post Post #13621 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:19 am

Post by quadz08 »

>_>

they were outside the fucking
Staples Center
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Post Post #13622 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:22 am

Post by Hinduragi »

I've pretty much avoided the issue because I don't like debating here. I purposefully don't respond to people in this thread or comment on stuff like this too much because back and forths aren't my thing and, in the end, it's some pointless conversation on the internet. I mostly read or lurk here only because I enjoy the game and like to see what some people have to say. Frankly, there's no reason I should bother with half of the shit that's posted here. I passed the "must win all arguments on dem interwebz" stage 4, 5 years ago. However, this needs to be said.

Spoiler: If you don't care about the things that happened at the Playoffs, don't bother with clicking this


Everyone, put down your pitchforks
. Everyone still talking about Saturday/cheating/etc. needs to hear it, especially Reddit. Jesus Christ, the LoL Reddit is like 4chan on a rampage right now. It's literally a shitstorm and it's already gone over to this community within a matter of seconds from when it started on the Reddit.

Internet

This pissed me off because it was happening at a $2m event before my eyes and it shouldn't have been humanly possible for the actual games themselves to crash like that. I posted because that was bullshit. This is different now. I've had some time to think about it and get a clear head and, well, shit happens. It shouldn't have, but it's done with now. Here's what I know about the internet part. According to various Rioters, the internet thing was the ISP failing. I think that is definitely out of Riot's control. With that said, yes, Riot could have probably done something to prevent it, something I've mentioned before. I wouldn't have foreseen an ISP failing and the entire LA area having their internet go down.(This is why all the local venues' internet went down) Ok, so yes, they made a mistake. That said, Riot gave everyone full refunds, free pizza, skins, RP, the entire ordeal. If you missed out on some games on the internet and some sleep, there's a double IP reward. I'm NOT saying that this makes up for it. The truth is, it doesn't. But, that's just it, they can't fix what already happened and treating everyone who was personally affected by it is definitely a thing that takes priority over everything else and that I can respect, especially from a company I know that they as a company know they fucked up. If anything, Riot learned a big fucking lesson. A frustrating fucking lesson that involved more than just them but everyone involved with their event. There isn't any fucking redemption from that except moving on. The good part is they're doing things to make sure it doesn't happen again. In fact, Redbeard has said they're implementing an offline LAN client. So something IS being done. I personally am of the opinion Riot should just say exactly what happened and what's going on. But not for us. The last thing Reddit needs right now is more fire. But for the future, it would definitely help them grow and recover as a company. Spilling everything and hiding nothing is the path they should just take for their sake. I really don't think they could do anything better than that at this point.

Cheating

I would like nothing better than to see WE disqualified right now because I want CLG.eu to win and I personally like them more as a team and feel the internet fiasco was against their favor, especially the end decision, as their mindset and mentality as a team was definitely better than WE's as the event went on. The pictures are far away and wide. You can see people's faces looking up and to the side, possibly at the screen. People could turn for all sorts of reasons. It's very unclear and the possibilities are out there. Yes, pings went down and that's suspicious. By no means am I saying to ignore this. No, this should be investigated. I'm pretty sure Riot has VODS of each camera for each player. I would be pretty surprised if Riot wasn't doing anything about it right now. But this isn't the place to be judging and screaming "DQ". This isn't a lynch on Mafiascum, guys. This is a real life competition for a million dollar 1st place prize. The word is out there and I will put money down that Riot will say something more about this. Right now, it's half of a book read. There's too much suspense over it for there NOT to be closure.

Riot

Travis said something about this, actually. "There's nobody at that company that was like 'you know what, let's just half-ass this, let's just throw this thing together and see what happens' ....I know there have been people working on this for months and months and months. Nobody wanted this to occur". He's right. There's a literal fucking shitstorm everywhere about this. He mentioned how everything is bad for them right now: their company, eSports, League, and their relationship with pro players. We don't gain anything from pitchforking them further. The rest of the Playoffs can still happen. They are literally at the bottom of the ground right now. It's in the past. I actually liked everything leading up to Saturday and I still think that was the best casting I've ever seen, despite 5 hours of it not even being about an actual game. Riot may get the message. If they don't, then all I can say is that the future of League as a game and as an eSport is doomed. What I do know is escalating this further than it's already gone isn't going to help.

I know my opinions might not be too popular but this is something that everyone who is helping spread drama needs to hear. I've been in widespread drama situations a lot and I know how many things get spread. It's just a bad thing. Not once can I say drama has been crucial in solving a problem. It helps raise awareness to the problem but it by no means is a solution. With that said, if you got to the end of this, congratulations, you're here. Thanks for at least reading what I had to say.
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Post Post #13623 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:23 am

Post by Hinduragi »

Nexus wrote:What's he say? I'm on my netbook and can't watch videos atm.

That was probably the single best interview of the entire event. Just watch it when you get home/get to your desktop rather than getting a paraphrase.
Last edited by Hinduragi on Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #13624 (ISO) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:25 am

Post by Nexus »

Well fwiw I agree with most of what you've said, Hindu.

Sure, I was pissed I basically wasted six hours on Saturday Night, but shit happens. I don't blame riot.
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