Newbie 1289 - Game Over!

[fish-riding-a-bike-2000]

Hmmm, just so you know Buldemar, It's nothing personal, I like you (No homo XD) You're at least posting more then half the people here, Just saying what most people here are probally thinking right now The fact that you are anoying XD

[buldermar]

So far, reading half the posts, Buldermar, what's with you & you're unnecessary long words in every sentence? you're very anoying to me to be honest just reading only half the posts. doesin't make you look any smarter, just so you know. You're acting soo suspicious to everyone here, acting all as if you have something to hide. That's what it looks like to me. No offence though.
I must agree more with Natual_river here, indeed, Ovyo seems more likey to be mafia. but I'm not gonna vote for now. I stil have to read the other half of all you guys posts.
And then I'll explain my thoughts throughout this "Investigation" XD haha

Could you examplify my supposed use of unnecessary long words? I'm sure we can agree that it's not the case for every sentence, so I'll leave out that part.

It is fortunate that it doesn't make me look any smarter; I wouldn't want that to happen.

[Airick10]

Reponding to Natural_river:

but to me it seems like a bunch of bickering that started somewhere with correcting each other about gameplay.
I'm afraid the real mafia is lurking in the shadows.

This is absolutely right on the money. Although, I suspect there is one scum between buldermar, Tierce, and vendetta. The other scum is quietly letting them take over the game. Let one scum stir the pot and distract the town, while the other just waits.

Putting that aside, here's my question.

For some reason ovyo seems most suspicious to me.

I'm really not sure, but DeltaBacon and Vendetta sound a little off to me

In post 161, you say "This doesn't sound like a good reason to suspect anyone either." So what is the difference between this reasoning and your own reasoning against ovyo?

I agree with the suspecion on ovyo for the fact that she came into the game replacing a slot that already had a non-random vote casted upon it. Certainly in posts, she is throwing down the "I'm new, don't kill me" card. Placing a random vote immediately, acknowledging she may be coming across scummy, and posting three posts wondering why a vote is placed on her does not give me confidence that she is playing pro-town. I've always thought that slot/player is town, but taking advantage of the mexican stand off between vendetta, Tierce, and buldermar by lurking certainly brings cause to suspecion.

Tierce, will you consider replacing out? I request this not because of your role as the IC (although I think that too would be sufficient reason), but because you're being active in other games while deliberately neglecting this. If you were temporarily preoccupied with something else I'd look at it differently, but this seems like a more permanent issue.

Initially I wanted to refrain from making this request because you're currently voting me and it could look as if that is my motive

, but with the current level of activity in this game, some of the inactive players simply has to be replaced, and I'd much rather have it done now than on a later day. If you will not replace out, at least consider prioritizing this game equally to other games.

In response to the quote in bold - Yes, absolutely it does.

In response to this whole quote, I find it incredibly scummy (and very OMGUS) to ask an active player who has posted more then half the players in this game to consider flat out leaving.

Is Tierce just not playing the game you want to play? Are you intimidated by Tierce? Much of this game theory talk has been initiated and continued by you. It adds nothing to the game outside of distracting us with posts that we don't care about. Why have you not voted Tierce? Do you find vendetta scummier? I count 8 posts by vendetta and 18 posts by Tierce. Why are you not asking vendetta to leave the game?

Vote: buldermar

[Tierce]

Actually, that request isn't scummy at all. He is asking me to increase my activity level--how on earth does that read like scum to you, when a town IC that isn't pulling their full weight is one of the best gifts scum could hope for?

UNVOTE: buldermar

I have to reconsider things tonight, but rest assured, buldermar, I have full intentions of posting before bed (whenever that is >.>). I understand you're frustrated, but I'm not going to replace out, as I am capable and will be picking up my activity level with actual content.

[buldermar]

Tierce, will you consider replacing out? I request this not because of your role as the IC (although I think that too would be sufficient reason), but because you're being active in other games while deliberately neglecting this. If you were temporarily preoccupied with something else I'd look at it differently, but this seems like a more permanent issue.

Initially I wanted to refrain from making this request because you're currently voting me and it could look as if that is my motive

, but with the current level of activity in this game, some of the inactive players simply has to be replaced, and I'd much rather have it done now than on a later day. If you will not replace out, at least consider prioritizing this game equally to other games.

In response to the quote in bold - Yes, absolutely it does.

In response to this whole quote, I find it incredibly scummy (and very OMGUS) to ask an active player who has posted more then half the players in this game to consider flat out leaving.

Is Tierce just not playing the game you want to play? Are you intimidated by Tierce? Much of this game theory talk has been initiated and continued by you. It adds nothing to the game outside of distracting us with posts that we don't care about. Why have you not voted Tierce? Do you find vendetta scummier? I count 8 posts by vendetta and 18 posts by Tierce. Why are you not asking vendetta to leave the game?

Vote: buldermar

I'd much rather have someone else make the request, but I seem to be the only one prodding and actively trying to get the level of activity increased (at least recently), so I found that unlikely to happen.

I think I can see why you'd find it incredibly scummy, but there is a difference between the inactivity of, for instance, you, and her. While you notified the rest of us that you'd be on vacation, she continually promised to post content

and

continually did not do so (her most recent message is the 3rd promise of doing so). Add to that the fact that she has been active in other games, and you'll perhaps be able to understand my frustration. I also didn't expect her to meet the request and actually replace out, but I thought that requesting it for (in my opinion) legitime reasons would encourage her to get more active.

I'm not sure what you insinuate with asking if Tierce is just not playing the game I want to play. I'd be happy to have the "active version of Tierce" in the game, and I think I can learn much from being in a game with her. I'm not intimidated by her - did you get that impression from somewhere else, or solely from the post you quoted?

I understand that you're frustrated about the theory talk. I still disagree with your assessment that it adds nothing to the game, but I'll try to refrain from continuing it out of respect for the opinions of others.

I did initially vote Tierce, but found Vendetta's sudden attack on me scummy for reasons I've already stated.

The last time Tierce produced a post with actual content (I'm convinced that she'll agree with this) was Oct 04. In comparison, Vendetta produced a post with content 3 times since (and including) that date. I wasn't as concerned with the absolute values of post amounts as you seem to be.

Actually, that request isn't scummy at all. He is asking me to increase my activity level--how on earth does that read like scum to you, when a town IC that isn't pulling their full weight is one of the best gifts scum could hope for?

UNVOTE: buldermar

I have to reconsider things tonight, but rest assured, buldermar, I have full intentions of posting before bed (whenever that is >.>). I understand you're frustrated, but I'm not going to replace out, as I am capable and will be picking up my activity level with actual content.

Thank you for your understanding.

[Natural_river]

For some reason ovyo seems most suspicious to me.

I'm really not sure, but DeltaBacon and Vendetta sound a little off to me

In post 161, you say "This doesn't sound like a good reason to suspect anyone either." So what is the difference between this reasoning and your own reasoning against ovyo?

Airick, why didn't you post the complete message?
I said
"For some reason ovyo seems most suspicious to me.
Ever since the focus has been directed at buldermar, ovyo stayed perfectly silent and is conveniently "bogged down with coursework".
Now I am not saying that buldermar is not mafia or so, but I'm only seeing two names, whilst the rest kind of silently follows every now and then joining and agreeing/disagreeing
with what those two have to say."

Yes I said " for some reason" but then I explain why I suspect ovyo.
I don't know if you're just trying to sound clever, or if you're trying to mislead.
But you're not making a great impression.

[Tierce]

Lots of stuff snipped because it pertained to a scumread I'm no longer interested in.

[snip]

Reads, please. Your claim at 'communicating' with other players does not satisfy me, because you are still in this low signal:noise dance. There is little evidence that you are looking for scum as of this point.

You're asking me to comment or make reads on something picked at random that just-so-happens to fit your need. This is not going to happen - if you want something from me, ask for it. I've posted my opinion on various events throughout the game and, as opposed to you, actually not avoided answering questions. I don't give a flying fuck about the ratio of the content of my posts. If I had limited time to answer, I'd be more selective, but I don't have to when I have the time to answer anything I find remotedly relevant.

Again, this is an allegation. I've not avoided discussing this game. I've responded to every question and commented on every post I found relevant to comment on. Once again, I encourage you to prove me wrong by providing me an example of something I missed (this is the 3rd time I request it btw).

And as I've said before, it's not up to me to guarantee you are proactive and discuss other things instead of just what is directed at you. I am under no obligation to point and say "discussing This and That would be town-action coming from you". I want to see you discussing This and That without being nudged in that direction. I want you to act in a way that isn't simply sitting on your comfort zone arguing theory and throwing buzzwords about.

And as I'll say again, it's not my responsibility to guess what you want me to comment on. I've not "simply sat on my comfort zone arguing theory", as you put it. I've until recently discussed theory

while

responding to everything else I found relevant. Now I'm merely doing the latter.[/quote]I actually asked you for reads. I can be explicit and list the names of all players, but I wouldn't think that is necessary when I don't expect you to have reads on absolutely everyone. You claim not to avoid answering questions, but what you're doing is obtrusive all the same, buldermar--you're sticking to the letter of the law. Please don't do that. Pro-activeness is protown, as I'm sure you're aware, and having to cajole specific things out of certain players defeats a lot of the purpose in asking open-ended questions.

A few IC notes that I'd like to make at this point:

Obviously on day 1 the only confirmed town when you're town yourself

is

yourself. Hammering yourself (confirmed town lynch) is inferior to not hammering yourself (no lynch) in this setup.

This is actually statistically incorrect, as you can win without being alive. If you are the ONLY viable lynch with minutes to deadline and no one else is available to vote you, self-hammering may be a good practice to ensure the town has the information that yes, you ARE town. Flips are necessary to get better reads among the living players. Flips are important for scumhunting. That said, self-hammering is only a good idea in very extreme circumstances. We are not in such a situation. If we ever get to one while I'm alive, I'll wax as much theory as you want. Until then, I'm closing this line of discussion from my end.

I think this is low of you, Tierce. I say that out of the context of this game, I genuinely think this is abusing your role as an IC. One thing is your opinion of theory talk

within

the frame of the game, but to constantly be dissenting theory talk and then throw

this

from the position of an IC? And to make matters worse, you're immediately "closing this line of discussion"? Really? It can be proven mathematically that self-hammering is suboptimal in this setup for

anyones

alignment at the equilibrium state of the game, but you're effectively saying "I'm IC so I can state my opinion without it being classified as theory-talk

ingame

, but you can't answer me because

that would be ingame theory talk thus scummy

. On the other hand, if I don't answer, people will see this as weakness and perhaps conclude that you voting me must be on reasonable grounds. This means that you're effectively giving yourself an unfair advantage ingame by abusing your role as an IC.

That is certainly not what I'm doing. My job as an IC means that I will not lie about theory. However, when discussing it gets to a level of pointlessness, it's no longer about a theory point that is

relevant to the present context of the game

; it becomes a discussion fit for the Mafia Discussion forum. I have already given my IC input on the matter and, as a player, continuing that line of discussion is not beneficial for the town. So: my IC job is done, and my player job is not to continue it from my end; I can't keep you from talking about it, but I can choose not to respond (which is what I meant from "my end" in the post in question). There is no advantage-taking anywhere and I feel somewhat insulted that you would think so. Heck, if you think I am abusing my position, PM izak and/or singersigner, but I will not continuing debating a theory point that I see as irrelevant in the present game state.

I especially think the tone and message of Post 65 is uncalled for

I don't have any comfortable way of putting this: get used to it. Players in MS will not be kind when they are convinced you are scum or not pulling your weight. This is a community that is centered about people arguing with each other. I have a sweet and gentle side and I'm trying to contribute to an enjoyable experience for each of you, but I'm not here to coddle you: I'm here to teach you about some theory points and to show you what a typical MS game can be like. I don't resort to personal insults, but neither will I bow to your demands that I do something if I don't think it's beneficial to the town.
You need a tough skin to deal with some players here. It's not my intention to offend anyone. You're going to find players with big egos, players who are convinced their ridiculous views on theory are the One True Way of playing, players who are incredibly obvious scum even though they did not draw a scum PM. People will not easily bow to your demands if they are convinced it's detrimental to them or their faction; that's simply the nature of the community we are.
This message brought to you by someone who has had an amazing experience here so far. Don't expect coddling, don't expect kindness. People expect you to step up and pull your weight; accept this for what it is and don't be intimidated, it's just how we work.

I'm used to it, but I reserve my opinion. This applies to your current post as well where you're supposedly responding from the role of an IC. Stating "get used to it" is hardly conducive to a healthy learning environment. I'm not asking for everyone to be wonderful and kind to one another, nor am I asking for you to contribute to an enjoyable experience for each of us. As human beings, personal insults hurt whether they are within the context of a game or not. When someone asks you why you refrain from explaining a town read, stating "get over yourself" is just one of many ways to go about explaining it, and I thought that particular way of explaining it was uncalled for. I'm not saying that in the context of your role as IC btw. I think you got the wrong impression of what I called you out for.

I already explained, multiple times IIRC, why I would rather not explain that townread. It gets to a point in which the only thing I can do is shrug and say "tough luck, you're not going to get it from me". I know the concept of towntells is something important in the context of the game, and I am not hiding the reasoning behind this one to spite you nor to show you that people sometimes hide the reasons for their reads (which they do), as I will explain it post-game. I'm hiding that reasoning because, as I have said, revealing it at this stage is not, in my opinion, beneficial for town and I, like many other players you will find in MS, will not be easily intimidated into taking an action that I consider unhelpful for town (i.e. reveal the reasoning for my townread on PaperSpirit).

[Tierce]

This game needs so much more activity. If no-one contributes, then scum can safely hide amongst the lurkers, which sucks because then we're scuppered.

Basically guys, start posting.

"People need to post!

*crickets*

Really, people need to post!"

Compare to buldermar and Natural_river, who are actually trying to generate content even as they cajole others to post. This is grandstanding scum trying to look like he's doing something to improve the activity, when in truth he did nothing with that post.

VOTE: Deltabacon

Hi scum.

[Natural_river]

This game needs so much more activity. If no-one contributes, then scum can safely hide amongst the lurkers, which sucks because then we're scuppered.

Basically guys, start posting.

"People need to post!

*crickets*

Really, people need to post!"

Compare to buldermar and Natural_river, who are actually trying to generate content even as they cajole others to post. This is grandstanding scum trying to look like he's doing something to improve the activity, when in truth he did nothing with that post.

VOTE: Deltabacon

Hi scum.

okay, I have read your posts, and I do believe you have a point, I even read back on Deltabacon's posts, and I can see some mafia in his posts.
He hasn't contributed to town yet, at least, I can't find one post that actually is progressive for town, all I see is that he keeps trying to get the reasons on why you think someone is "obvtown" or who is mafia.
To be honest, I can't blame him for wanting to find out, because I think everyone is pretty curious... just because you mention it's in the best interest for the town if you don't explain why, is not going to get people to trust your thought on this.

But what I don't like about his profile so far, is that he hasn't showed any effort to find the mafia.
Or at least, I can't notice much effort.
It also seems to me he doesn't like you so much, by the request to prod you, this can be seen as an effort to continue discussion, but can also be seen as a test to see if you were not a potential threat anymore.

The only thing stopping me from changing my vote to Deltabacon, is that ovyo in my opinion is just as suspicious.
That, and the fact that you have the tendency not to explain hardly any of your actions, I can see that you are a more experienced player, maybe you know more about the
game than I do, but this alone is not going to convince me fully that you are indeed town, you might as easily be an experienced mafia.

[Tierce]

To be honest, I can't blame him for wanting to find out, because I think everyone is pretty curious... just because you mention it's in the best interest for the town if you don't explain why, is not going to get people to trust your thought on this.

I don't necessarily expect people to trust me on this--but the fact is that we are talking about a slot (PaperSpirit/fish-riding-a-bike-2000) which had no wagon on it, therefore there was no need for me to explain that read; Deltabacon's insistence that I do so and that behaving otherwise was scummy is not a protown mindset. Curiosity is one thing, pushing my choice as scummy is quite another.

That, and the fact that you have the tendency not to explain hardly any of your actions, I can see that you are a more experienced player, maybe you know more about the
game than I do, but this alone is not going to convince me fully that you are indeed town, you might as easily be an experienced mafia.

?
Really? I thought I was explaining myself quite thoroughly so far when it comes to scumreads. It could be my perception, though--I don't play as many newbie games anymore and I'm not used to explaining my thought process every step of the way. Where did I not explain myself that you would like more detail about?

[fish-riding-a-bike-2000]

So far, reading half the posts, Buldermar, what's with you & you're unnecessary long words in every sentence? you're very anoying to me to be honest just reading only half the posts. doesin't make you look any smarter, just so you know. You're acting soo suspicious to everyone here, acting all as if you have something to hide. That's what it looks like to me. No offence though.
I must agree more with Natual_river here, indeed, Ovyo seems more likey to be mafia. but I'm not gonna vote for now. I stil have to read the other half of all you guys posts.
And then I'll explain my thoughts throughout this "Investigation" XD haha

Could you examplify my supposed use of unnecessary long words? I'm sure we can agree that it's not the case for every sentence, so I'll leave out that part.

It is fortunate that it doesn't make me look any smarter; I wouldn't want that to happen.

Okay,
To start with, pardon my future horrible spelling & such, I'm horribley deslexic. so don't bother trying to correct me. You'll only waste you're time doing so.
damn, so far I'v red all of you're posts to try to keep up with you guys. it's nothing but just pinpointing.

@Buldemar, yea, there's nothing wrong useing long words & I know it was not you're intention of trying to sound smarter or anything. Just sometimes i really couldin't follow you where you where gettin at. Like what Tierce said a while back, you're just making Loud noise or dance was it? you know what I mean, but like no results. But whatever.

@Tierce, I must say I like you more & more every time you post. just had to say that. I don't find you suspiscious so far, but you are indeed a very exspierianced player, who knows, you are very good in this game. so i'm keeping my eye's on you

@RedRabbit, you seem like a pretty cool dude, you know what you're talking about every post you make, yet latey there's been too less of yours, eventhough you did warned us of that due to you're work. just saying would be handy if you also wer more involved here. could use you're help

Okay, enough sucking up here!

Yea, there's alot of pinpointing here & there. but between buldemar & vendetta21 earlier, you both must remember that this is just a game, not to get too personal here with each other, don't pull that shit torwards me man. I'm not up for that, just saying, I'm not in to get all personal & such with each other, let's keep this fun & interesting for everyone

I first thought Ovyo might be mafia, but the looks of it, it seem so that she is just new to this game but also very insecure with voting. Mabe the whole playing innocent & such could be a trick to us. but still not as suspisous as Deltabacon.
Why I think he might be mafia, cuz in the beginning he did introduced himself suspisous in a way how he said he is going to kick all of our asses on mafia, seemed too excited, not like a townie who would think of working together sayin "let's do this!" or something eles simulair instead. but i don't know & the rest is just gutt feeling, but ugh, too much to explain. so far i'm just gonna vote for Deltabacon. just so he will post more.

VOTE: Deltabacon

ps. i'm i voting right?

[Natural_river]

Quick post, Tierce, although you didn't explain why you thought paperspirit was obvtown, I do agree with your read.
I'm not going to vote for fish-riding-a-bike-2000 either.
Now, @fish, I agree with your vote, and I too will vote Deltabacon, but I don't like it when people pull that post " going to kick all your arses at mafia" up, because it's pretty obvious what he meant.
But I'm voting for the reasons mentioned before.

UNVOTE: ovyo

VOTE: Deltabacon

[Natural_river]

By the way, ovyo is STILL not posting... can we get a replacement on that one?
More activity would be great.

[buldermar]

I actually asked you for reads. I can be explicit and list the names of all players, but I wouldn't think that is necessary when I don't expect you to have reads on absolutely everyone. You claim not to avoid answering questions, but what you're doing is obtrusive all the same, buldermar--you're sticking to the letter of the law. Please don't do that. Pro-activeness is protown, as I'm sure you're aware, and having to cajole specific things out of certain players defeats a lot of the purpose in asking open-ended questions.

I already answered the open-ended question when I said I've commented on everything I found relevant to comment on.

A few IC notes that I'd like to make at this point:

Obviously on day 1 the only confirmed town when you're town yourself

is

yourself. Hammering yourself (confirmed town lynch) is inferior to not hammering yourself (no lynch) in this setup.

This is actually statistically incorrect, as you can win without being alive. If you are the ONLY viable lynch with minutes to deadline and no one else is available to vote you, self-hammering may be a good practice to ensure the town has the information that yes, you ARE town. Flips are necessary to get better reads among the living players. Flips are important for scumhunting. That said, self-hammering is only a good idea in very extreme circumstances. We are not in such a situation. If we ever get to one while I'm alive, I'll wax as much theory as you want. Until then, I'm closing this line of discussion from my end.

I think this is low of you, Tierce. I say that out of the context of this game, I genuinely think this is abusing your role as an IC. One thing is your opinion of theory talk

within

the frame of the game, but to constantly be dissenting theory talk and then throw

this

from the position of an IC? And to make matters worse, you're immediately "closing this line of discussion"? Really? It can be proven mathematically that self-hammering is suboptimal in this setup for

anyones

alignment at the equilibrium state of the game, but you're effectively saying "I'm IC so I can state my opinion without it being classified as theory-talk

ingame

, but you can't answer me because

that would be ingame theory talk thus scummy

. On the other hand, if I don't answer, people will see this as weakness and perhaps conclude that you voting me must be on reasonable grounds. This means that you're effectively giving yourself an unfair advantage ingame by abusing your role as an IC.

That is certainly not what I'm doing. My job as an IC means that I will not lie about theory. However, when discussing it gets to a level of pointlessness, it's no longer about a theory point that is

relevant to the present context of the game

; it becomes a discussion fit for the Mafia Discussion forum. I have already given my IC input on the matter and, as a player, continuing that line of discussion is not beneficial for the town. So: my IC job is done, and my player job is not to continue it from my end; I can't keep you from talking about it, but I can choose not to respond (which is what I meant from "my end" in the post in question). There is no advantage-taking anywhere and I feel somewhat insulted that you would think so. Heck, if you think I am abusing my position, PM izak and/or singersigner, but I will not continuing debating a theory point that I see as irrelevant in the present game state.

Whether deliberate or not, I stand by my claim that what you did gave you an unfair advantage for the reasons I've already specified. I think you could easily see why if you'd trust that I'm being sincere instead of feeling insulted. I don't think either of the people you suggested that I contact will take a neutral stance in this debate, as they're likely people with whom you have previously communicated. Besides, I was merely hoping to have you see why what you did gave you an unfair advantage. I'm not going to pursue this any futher.

I especially think the tone and message of Post 65 is uncalled for

I don't have any comfortable way of putting this: get used to it. Players in MS will not be kind when they are convinced you are scum or not pulling your weight. This is a community that is centered about people arguing with each other. I have a sweet and gentle side and I'm trying to contribute to an enjoyable experience for each of you, but I'm not here to coddle you: I'm here to teach you about some theory points and to show you what a typical MS game can be like. I don't resort to personal insults, but neither will I bow to your demands that I do something if I don't think it's beneficial to the town.
You need a tough skin to deal with some players here. It's not my intention to offend anyone. You're going to find players with big egos, players who are convinced their ridiculous views on theory are the One True Way of playing, players who are incredibly obvious scum even though they did not draw a scum PM. People will not easily bow to your demands if they are convinced it's detrimental to them or their faction; that's simply the nature of the community we are.
This message brought to you by someone who has had an amazing experience here so far. Don't expect coddling, don't expect kindness. People expect you to step up and pull your weight; accept this for what it is and don't be intimidated, it's just how we work.

I'm used to it, but I reserve my opinion. This applies to your current post as well where you're supposedly responding from the role of an IC. Stating "get used to it" is hardly conducive to a healthy learning environment. I'm not asking for everyone to be wonderful and kind to one another, nor am I asking for you to contribute to an enjoyable experience for each of us. As human beings, personal insults hurt whether they are within the context of a game or not. When someone asks you why you refrain from explaining a town read, stating "get over yourself" is just one of many ways to go about explaining it, and I thought that particular way of explaining it was uncalled for. I'm not saying that in the context of your role as IC btw. I think you got the wrong impression of what I called you out for.

I already explained, multiple times IIRC, why I would rather not explain that townread. It gets to a point in which the only thing I can do is shrug and say "tough luck, you're not going to get it from me". I know the concept of towntells is something important in the context of the game, and I am not hiding the reasoning behind this one to spite you nor to show you that people sometimes hide the reasons for their reads (which they do), as I will explain it post-game. I'm hiding that reasoning because, as I have said, revealing it at this stage is not, in my opinion, beneficial for town and I, like many other players you will find in MS, will not be easily intimidated into taking an action that I consider unhelpful for town (i.e. reveal the reasoning for my townread on PaperSpirit).

I was arguing about your tone, not the fact that you did not want to explain the read. You don't have to explain why it can be best sometimes to hide the reasons for a read, as I am already aware of this. If you want to explain why you'd tell other players "get used to it" or "get over yourself" rather than what you just told me, I'm all ears.

This game needs so much more activity. If no-one contributes, then scum can safely hide amongst the lurkers, which sucks because then we're scuppered.

Basically guys, start posting.

"People need to post!

*crickets*

Really, people need to post!"

Compare to buldermar and Natural_river, who are actually trying to generate content even as they cajole others to post. This is grandstanding scum trying to look like he's doing something to improve the activity, when in truth he did nothing with that post.

VOTE: Deltabacon

Hi scum.

Is this to be understood as a level of certainty similar to that previously expressed in your townread of Paper?

[buldermar]

So far, reading half the posts, Buldermar, what's with you & you're unnecessary long words in every sentence? you're very anoying to me to be honest just reading only half the posts. doesin't make you look any smarter, just so you know. You're acting soo suspicious to everyone here, acting all as if you have something to hide. That's what it looks like to me. No offence though.
I must agree more with Natual_river here, indeed, Ovyo seems more likey to be mafia. but I'm not gonna vote for now. I stil have to read the other half of all you guys posts.
And then I'll explain my thoughts throughout this "Investigation" XD haha

Could you examplify my supposed use of unnecessary long words? I'm sure we can agree that it's not the case for every sentence, so I'll leave out that part.

It is fortunate that it doesn't make me look any smarter; I wouldn't want that to happen.

Okay,
To start with, pardon my future horrible spelling & such, I'm horribley deslexic. so don't bother trying to correct me. You'll only waste you're time doing so.
damn, so far I'v red all of you're posts to try to keep up with you guys. it's nothing but just pinpointing.

@Buldemar, yea, there's nothing wrong useing long words & I know it was not you're intention of trying to sound smarter or anything. Just sometimes i really couldin't follow you where you where gettin at. Like what Tierce said a while back, you're just making Loud noise or dance was it? you know what I mean, but like no results. But whatever.

@Tierce, I must say I like you more & more every time you post. just had to say that. I don't find you suspiscious so far, but you are indeed a very exspierianced player, who knows, you are very good in this game. so i'm keeping my eye's on you

@RedRabbit, you seem like a pretty cool dude, you know what you're talking about every post you make, yet latey there's been too less of yours, eventhough you did warned us of that due to you're work. just saying would be handy if you also wer more involved here. could use you're help

Okay, enough sucking up here!

Yea, there's alot of pinpointing here & there. but between buldemar & vendetta21 earlier, you both must remember that this is just a game, not to get too personal here with each other, don't pull that shit torwards me man. I'm not up for that, just saying, I'm not in to get all personal & such with each other, let's keep this fun & interesting for everyone

I first thought Ovyo might be mafia, but the looks of it, it seem so that she is just new to this game but also very insecure with voting. Mabe the whole playing innocent & such could be a trick to us. but still not as suspisous as Deltabacon.
Why I think he might be mafia, cuz in the beginning he did introduced himself suspisous in a way how he said he is going to kick all of our asses on mafia, seemed too excited, not like a townie who would think of working together sayin "let's do this!" or something eles simulair instead. but i don't know & the rest is just gutt feeling, but ugh, too much to explain. so far i'm just gonna vote for Deltabacon. just so he will post more.

VOTE: Deltabacon

ps. i'm i voting right?

I don't have any issues understanding what you're saying.

Please keep in mind that many of my posts were from before you replaced into this game. I will try to speak in a more simple language to allow for better communication of what I have to say from now on.

Do you have a nickname? fish-riding-a-bike-2000 is tedious to write.

[buldermar]

By the way, yes, fish-riding-a-bike-2000, you are voting correctly.

[Natural_river]

Buldermar, this huge wall of text has got to stop man, when you wish to quote somebody, cut off all the other text you don't need.
So, only keep the sentences you're replying to.
This is something I noticed a lot when checking out other games, I notice that mafia members often post HUGE quote walls man, it's to distract the reader,
and it'll make you miss vital information.

Pro-town is to make sure information is easily read.
Please stop making this game harder than it already is.

[buldermar]

Buldermar, this huge wall of text has got to stop man, when you wish to quote somebody, cut off all the other text you don't need.
So, only keep the sentences you're replying to.
This is something I noticed a lot when checking out other games, I notice that mafia members often post HUGE quote walls man, it's to distract the reader,
and it'll make you miss vital information.

Pro-town is to make sure information is easily read.
Please stop making this game harder than it already is.

While you generally speaking might be right, I think there is merit to including the conversation in its entirety here. It would be much more difficult for people who just placed in to understand what I'm commenting on if I did not include the initial posts of Tierce and I.

[buldermar]

FWIW I don't have anything in addition to what has already been noted regarding Delta, and I want to postpone asking questions until the slot becomes active or is replaced.

[RedRabbit]

I'm off for five days. Yay!

I'll post tonight but I have to re-read the thread to get myself back in the game.

[izakthegoomba]

I'm seeking a replacement for ovyo, bear with me on this. Delta has requested V/LA due to illness.

Votecount 1.06

Deltabacon (3) - Tierce, fish-riding-a-bike-2000, Natural_river
buldermar (2) - vendetta21, Airick10
vendetta21 (2) - ovyo, buldermar
Tierce (1) - Deltabacon
ovyo (0) -

none

Airick10 (0) -

none

Natural_river (0) -

none

fish-riding-a-bike-2000 (0) -

none

RedRabbit (0) -

none

No Lynch (0) -

none

Not voting (1) - RedRabbit

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline: (expired on 2012-10-18 11:36:09)

[RedRabbit]

Ok. Well it looks like I didn't miss as much as I thought.

@ Buldemar: Is your vote now on vendetta purely because he challenged you re theory and the tone he used? That's what I'm getting from it. I don't see why you shifted your vote from Tierce. If I challenge you should I expect a vote for my troubles?

I'm also not seeing the Deltabacon votes. Tierce seems to be voting because he posted, in isolation, that people needed to step up their participation. Being one of the worst offenders (the worst?) I agree with him. And Fish is basing his(?) on the very first post of the day.

I'm going to go ovyo. Re-reading the thread has given me a clearer view of her voting patterns early on and the post where she votes for BT #42 and immediately follows it with the thought that two others seem more off to her is about the scummiest read I get in the game so far. So for now:

VOTE: Oyvo.

[Natural_river]

It's spelled " ovyo" btw.
But I've been getting my doubts about ovyo...
I looked more into ovyo's posts, it seems to me like ovyo really had no clue what was going on.
ovyo jumped in a game that happened to have Tierce and buldermar in it. Both very fierce players, lots of text, lots of BOOM BAM BAM!
Honestly, I think that's why we don't see ovyo in this game anymore.

Also that and the fact that ovyo has also cancelled her ( she's a girl, yes ) second game as well due to "homework."
I don't think a beginner would think that far ahead to cover her tracks if she was mafia.
I don't know if it's homework stopping her, but I don't think she's mafia, I think she just has no idea what's going on really.
And now has put the forum aside because of other interests.
If she was mafia, I believe her actions would be different, who wouldn't want to be mafia as a beginner?
Sounds so cool, you get to lynch at night and all.
This "defending" ovyo is not really a defence, it's just me stating a possibility.

Ovyo obviously isn't here to defend herself...
If only she would talk I could get a clearer read on her... maybe she'll get replaced soon.

[Tierce]

Hey,Natural_river--quick post.

Please don't mention other ongoing games.

This is a forum rule and you can be hewed out for it--and rightfully so, as while some references can be harmless enough, drawing a line as to what can influence other games is a very subjective matter.

[buldermar]

@ Buldemar: Is your vote now on vendetta purely because he challenged you re theory and the tone he used? That's what I'm getting from it. I don't see why you shifted your vote from Tierce. If I challenge you should I expect a vote for my troubles?

This contains the most significant reasons:

when scumhunting a player, I need to understand why they're doing what you're doing.

What I don't understand is how Tierce can say something like this, but then go about telling people point-blank the dispositions of others and expecting them to accept that. In this instance we are talking about telling DB that PaperSpirit is obvtown, and telling AirWick that I am null. I would like some clarification here.

Yes, you're obviously twisting my words because it tells me something despite being a null with respect to alignment. For instance, it affects how I estimate his alignment based on his future actions. Generally speaking, any sort of profile/information about the players has the potential to become advantageous at a later point despite currently being null. I pointed it out for these reasons.

You are getting so caught up in little details of logic that are unimportant. You are arguing about whether or not

a thing both of you take the effort to define

is twisting words. Coming to a resolution on a matter like this shouldn't take a back and forth of more than 2 posts unless you are trying to catch BT in a scum-logic-trap, which you don't appear to be. I think you might be scum simply because you are making it so playing this game is incredibly tedious and you are acting as though fully reading and following your arcane and obtuse posts is a litmus test for being town, which it isn't. I don't want to read your crap and I don't see what all your words have accomplished.

I do not believe you can write off Tierce for being on your case about this simply because you have played in a game previous to this with a similar meta. I don't care about your meta, I don't care about whether hammering yourself is inferior to not hammering yourself because

we aren't in that situation

. You are making this game difficult to play, which is in turn making it harder for the town to win, and the bulk of your posts appear to be this silly logic bullshit where you feel the need to get into the nuanced semiotics of "twisting words." And above all this is a

newbie

game, a game that by definition has new players.

I think your sesquipedalian posts are probably a smokescreen. But mostly, I feel like you are focusing on inane topics that have almost nothing to do with the hunt.

VOTE: Buldermar

Here is a writing tip: you want to be careful about ironic incongruities. As you may not yet have noticed, the word "sesquipedalian" is self-descriptive, i.e., it is sesquipedalian. Much of the same can be said for "obtuse", a word the majority probably don't understand. So it is somewhat absurd, isn't it, to pose as a champion of "common language" while explicitly deploring "sesquipedalian posts" and "arcane and obtuse posts [that] is a litmus test for being town"? That's a bit like deploring obesity between commercials for soap opera while eating chocolate bonbons as your exercise videos gather dust atop your television.

I was making a display to show that it isn't hard to shit out a thesaurus, to make your posts more complicated than they need to be. My supposed hypocrisy here is not for the major content of my posts, but instead is about word choice. Why is this scummy? You continue to focus on inane topics, completely ignoring the fact that it's what I called you out for. That post isn't a call from the champion of common language, it's a post written and directed intimately towards you.

So let's draw back to the original example: what does a person's opinion on self-hammering tell you about their alignment? I agree with Tierce and RedRabbit on this issue. What does knowing this information about me tell you that you feel the need to discuss it in more than ten posts?

This is exactly how I thought you'd attempt to rationalize your ironic incongruity. You've not previously expressed your dislike of the ongoing discussion between Tierce and I, or your dislike of my way of playing. Out of nowhere, in a rabbit-out-of-the-hat sort of way, you compile a bunch of bullshit accusations and deliver them wrapped in fine words to (in my opinion) compensate for the fact that it's bullshit. And now you're asking me questions related specifically to the discussion, the ongoing of which was one of your main reasons for voting me? This is almost exactly what BT did in post 101. Yes, I think it's scummy to contribute to the ongoing of a discussion you pretend to want stopped, and I think it's incredible scummy to come out firering with red herrings the way you did without previously having requested anything or expressed anything related to the matter. I think you saw me as an easy target and took the opportunity to attempt to justify a vote.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: vendetta21

If it is still unclear just let me know and I'll try to rephrase.