[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Whiskers]

Hm, that would be interesting. Would they still be told who the other Hunter is? So it would be like, a Lyncher and a Bounty Hunter?

Actually, that

wouldn't

work currently: Hunters exit the game when they shoot.
But maybe we could change that.

A Hunter wins when both these conditions are met:
--He kills a mafia member with his 1-shot vig.
--The other Hunter is lynched.

Actually, that makes it really really hard to win as a Hunter. The obvious problem is if you shoot a mafia member, but don't lynch the other Hunter, but what if you get the other hunter lynched (hard to do in the first place-- he claims, "I'm a hunter!" and so doesn't get lynched), but you shoot the wrong player? Remember, Hunters only get one shot.

[Shamrock]

Yeah, you're right, that doesn't work. I've been thinking about how to make this work and I can't really come up with anything. It's a neat idea but I'm not sure it works in the context of mafia.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Give the hunters one shot between them, that they only get after the other guy is lynched?

I think that makes it a lot easier to lynch a hunter, really.

[Sucrose]

I've tried thinking about it, but the hunters seem really swingy. If mafia doesn't have a kill it's too hard for them to win, if there's more of them to make up for it it's too easy for the hunters to win, and if mafia do have a kill the game could end in about 2 days because 3 town players could be killed in a day/night cycle if a hunter miskills.

[Whiskers]

Fuck it: Just make opposing Lynchers. I've wanted that setup for forever.

[Timeater]

fyi lynchers are not really fun to play with and really are no better than jesters all things considered

[Whiskers]

What? Why are lynchers not fun to play with?
Ofc, I also like to have jester-games. When I draw a jester (on EM, so take it with a grain of salt), I play like I always do-- thoughtfully and slow. Sometimes I win as a townsided fool, but usually the mafia is looking for the fool to joint-win with (by lynching the last townie), and they lynch me, the most pro-town looking player, by mistake. I walk off with the only win in the game.

Seems to me a Lyncher is just like an easier mafia, in that they have ulterior motives. It's easier because they don't have anyone they want to protect, only a target.
Ofc, they also can't just lynch ANYONE outside their group-- they have to have their target to win. And they don't have scumbuddies to back them up.

Still, I like playing the lone wolf and the predator. I like to fool people, and I like to stay alive. I want more 3rd-party non-killing roles!

[Demon Core]

Still, I like playing the lone wolf and the predator. I like to fool people, and I like to stay alive. I want more 3rd-party non-killing roles!

Your opinion, similar to why you and I disagree on the "hunter" role.

I hate the lyncher because it takes out all the parts of mafia that I like (testing my intuition) and leaves the part I hate (manipulating other people or convincing them to do what you want).

Conversely that's why I love the "hunter" role. It takes out the parts I hate and leaves in the part I like.

[greygnarl]

I had an idea for a crazy setup. To begin with there is a 2-man scum team, probably with one PR as well as a godfather. There is also a 1-shot Cult Recruiter. This allows the Cultist to pick his partner basically. He can do so at anytime during the game. This also stops the cult from becoming unstoppable. Lastly there is a survivor role called the Knower which I might need to save for another game. He has knowledge of everyone's alignments. I can't decide how he should win because if he can win alongside town then he could just claim Knower and call out all the scum.

I want help balancing the game by:
Deciding what PRs town and scum get.
Deciding # of players(between 9 and 15)
I like quirky PRs but normal ones are fine too.

Also, the 1-shot Cult Recruiter is the hinge of the game. His inclusion is non-negotiable.

Maybe, a 7-9 player setup with 1-Shot Mafia Recruiter would be better. Please try to make the big one work.

[Whiskers]

The Knower role could become a mechanic that is something like, "Everynight, choose a living player. If you die during the night, that player's role is revealed."

If you keep it as a ONE-PERSON knower, then I think it would be cool to have Cops who detect knower-ism, instead of mafia.

Or, like, the Knower is a hidden role attached to a townie, and upon her death (killed or lynched) she picks # players to learn and reveal the alignments of.
The Cop's job is to find the Knower and out and lynch it, so town can influence the choice.
Mafia should also know the Knower, Cult should not (because then they can recruit her and that's really powerful).
Or maybe Cult

should

know. Does the cult have a factional kill?

[Phillammon]

The Knower role could become a mechanic that is something like, "Everynight, choose a living player. If you die during the night, that player's role is revealed."

If you keep it as a ONE-PERSON knower, then I think it would be cool to have Cops who detect knower-ism, instead of mafia.

Or, like, the Knower is a hidden role attached to a townie, and upon her death (killed or lynched) she picks # players to learn and reveal the alignments of.
The Cop's job is to find the Knower and out and lynch it, so town can influence the choice.
Mafia should also know the Knower, Cult should not (because then they can recruit her and that's really powerful).
Or maybe Cult

should

know. Does the cult have a factional kill?

Knower under those conditions was an experimental role in my mini normal, under the name Oracle- it functions, but building a setup around it can be an issue.

[Whiskers]

I can imagine!

[greygnarl]

Forget the knower. That was just a quirky idea.

Help change this setup:
1-shot Cult Recruiter
Mafia Godfather(Can also right a message to the moderator that will be broadcast the next day.)
Mafia Framer
4xTownies
Town Cop
Town Bodyguard
Town Tracker
Survivor

[Shamrock]

Lose the survivor, survivor is a terrible role that should never be used in anything

[saulres]

Framer + Bodyguard seems overpowered for having only one cop.

[greygnarl]

No survivor, no framer but add 2 goons and 3 townies.

[Whiskers]

Lose the survivor, survivor is a terrible role that should never be used in anything

Stop that. I love the survivor and would take it over a serial killer any day.

[IceGuy]

Take Your Chances

2 Mafia Goons
7 Probabilistic JOATs

A Probabilistic JOAT can take any of the following actions, but they succeed only with a probability:
Cop, Watcher, Vig: 10%
Tracker, Roleblocker: 20%
Jailkeeper, Hider: 25%
Doctor: 30%
Bodyguard: 40%

[Eddard Stark]

hider is too high comparatively

[IceGuy]

hider is too high comparatively

You're right. Changed this.

[BBmolla]

Lose the survivor, survivor is a terrible role that should never be used in anything

Stop that. I love the survivor and would take it over a serial killer any day.

Why
What redeeming factor do you see in the survivor

It creates stupid ass kingmaker scenarios and is just a serial killer without a kill. How is that fun?

[Whiskers]

and is just a serial killer without a kill. How is that fun?

I think you just answered your own question.

How does it make kingmaker scenarios? You mean like, lylo, +survivor?

[greygnarl]

Is the new setup balanced? I'd like more PR's for more fun but the Cult Recruiter should be pretty fun.

[Whiskers]

Actually, that's already a LOT of unique PRs-- like, everybody pick one and claim it, and then it's an EpicMafia game.

Also, why does the GF have a modspeak ability? (In addition to not seeing the need of putting it in in the first place, how would the GF be able use it?)

[Leafsnail]

When you say "anytime" for the cult recruiter does that include day? Because it'd be kindof lame to correctly lead a lynch on scum and become an SK with no kill for your efforts. Other than dickmoves the cult also feels a little toothless somehow even with the powerful recruitment ability - no kill means they're going to struggle horribly against the mafia, and if one of them dies their chances of winning are virtually nil.