Newbie 1289 - Game Over!

[buldermar]

All you have caused is chaos, I guess in a way it starts discussion, but I don't think you're getting the right guy.
Buldermar hasn't contributed much either, not much reasons why he thinks who is who, just lots of theory talk...

These are two strange accusations to make at this point.

Tierce has not been contributing to the ongoing of the discussion after initially stating that she wasn't going to reveal the read. In fact, she's several times made it clear that she'd prefer it stopped. You, on the other hand,

did

contribute to its ongoing:

Tierce, you mentioning that you had information about town that might be harmful for town is something I wouldn't recommend doing again, it only causes confusion.
I seriously can't understand how any information might be harmful for town.
I also can't understand your "obvtown" read, what else can make you so certain someone is town, other than going against the rules of the game?

What does this accomplish?

It seems you feel the right to vote and call obvtown without further explanation calling it necessary for town that we don't know.

What about this?

I clearly stated

several times

that I have a scumread on vendetta. I've informed that I am fine with lynching Tierce on the premise that she does not reveal her read once she's at L1 and in danger of being lynched. I have a townread on Airick, despite his most recent read on me being misguided. He has not been opportunistic the way some others in this thread has, and he has thoroughly explained each of his votes.

I didn't have much of a read on your slot, but recently you've been acting in a suspicious way. You've tried to blame Tierce for your own vote on Delta:

No.
UNVOTE: Deltabacon

Tierce, you give me the heebiddygeebies.

And I'm starting to get my doubts about Deltabacon,
I don't know how you managed to get everyone to face Deltabacon, but you did.

And you've been preoccupied with seemingly unimportant things, such as my way of quoting (this in isolation might be a null, but in conjunction with the other things it becomes suspicious to me).

[buldermar]

In short, the optimal thing to do is to ignore it until you're a candidate for being lynched, in which case the reasons could influence whether or not to lynch you (and, as such, can be expected to be given by you).

I should add to this that the same applies if Papers slot is about to be lynched.

[Natural_river]

These are two strange accusations to make at this point.

Tierce has not been contributing to the ongoing of the discussion after initially stating that she wasn't going to reveal the read. In fact, she's several times made it clear that she'd prefer it stopped. You, on the other hand,

did

contribute to its ongoing:

I believe tierce made up the town read to get a discussion started.
I think she wanted to lure out the mafia, but it don't think it worked.
Mafia is still hiding.

Tierce, you mentioning that you had information about town that might be harmful for town is something I wouldn't recommend doing again, it only causes confusion.
I seriously can't understand how any information might be harmful for town.
I also can't understand your "obvtown" read, what else can make you so certain someone is town, other than going against the rules of the game?

What does this accomplish?

Well, can't you see I'm explaining why I think her "obvtown" read is BS ?

It seems you feel the right to vote and call obvtown without further explanation calling it necessary for town that we don't know.

What about this?

I clearly stated

several times

that I have a scumread on vendetta. I've informed that I am fine with lynching Tierce on the premise that she does not reveal her read once she's at L1 and in danger of being lynched. I have a townread on Airick, despite his most recent read on me being misguided. He has not been opportunistic the way some others in this thread has, and he has thoroughly explained each of his votes.

I didn't have much of a read on your slot, but recently you've been acting in a suspicious way. You've tried to blame Tierce for your own vote on Delta:

I knew it...
oh, I have this feeling about you buldermar... and it keeps growing.
You can't handle any pressure, at all.
Whenever any attention is focused your way, you get freaked.
I purposely talked about your quoting style, for one, it IS annoying, even the new guy noticed this first thing he joined.
And for second, I needed something to link to you being mafia.
To see how you would react.
Your reaction to a potential threat is attack.
You haven't fully attacked me yet, but you're building it up.
You want to vote people you don't like, not people you suspect.

No.
UNVOTE: Deltabacon

Tierce, you give me the heebiddygeebies.

And I'm starting to get my doubts about Deltabacon,
I don't know how you managed to get everyone to face Deltabacon, but you did.

And you've been preoccupied with seemingly unimportant things, such as my way of quoting (this in isolation might be a null, but in conjunction with the other things it becomes suspicious to me).

It's becoming clearer to me, vendetta21 was right for voting you.
Tierce was too, but I think she's distracted.
Buldermar, you're my number one suspect.

VOTE: Buldermar

[Tierce]

Hey buldermar--you should be voting Deltabacon. We can get his buddy tomorrow. I'm a huge not-a-fan of how Natural_river jumped off Deltabacon to make a larger wagon on you just now, and how he's trying to paint a personality quirk/posting style as something bad, so cooperate with me now and we can get two birds with

one stone

two nooses.

And yes, I've said that if the danger of not outing the reason for my townread on the fish-riding-a-bike-2000 outweighs the benefits of

not

revealing it (i.e. getting a townie in danger of being lynched--me or him), I will obviously explain it. No, it's not a made-up read, I have no reasons to lie as town and I don't do silly gambits like that to spark discussion just to smother it afterwards by saying I wouldn't want it discussed.

[MrJamesWatson]

I have taken a read on all of the posts...
Lots of reading, and lots of fingerpointing.

I must agree with vendetta21 and N_R's votes.
Buldermar, you seem the most guilty to me.
You use theory as your mask, you blind people with words and more words.
You seemed to back off when Natural_River matched long quotes with you being mafia.
You changed your quoting style, and then your suspicions face N_R because of the quoting talk?
It's possible you changed your quoting style because you are just kind, but that in combination with
suspecting N_R? No.

I can see that my slot has some fingers pointed at, nothing I can do about this yet.
The people who played before me played suspiciously for some reason.
I can't solidly prove that I am not guilty, just as Tierce cannot prove that PaperSpirit is innocent.

One thing I can do is vote, and I am voting to catch scum.
This may seem like I am jumping the wagon, but a wagon is necessary to catch mafia.
His guilty blood will prove my innocence.
Maybe not this round, but you will see, I'm pretty certain about this one.

VOTE: Buldermar

[Tierce]

That's a rather disgusting L-1 vote. MrJamesWatson, what are your reads on the other players?

[Natural_river]

Hey buldermar--you should be voting Deltabacon. We can get his buddy tomorrow. I'm a huge not-a-fan of how Natural_river jumped off Deltabacon to make a larger wagon on you just now, and how he's trying to paint a personality quirk/posting style as something bad, so cooperate with me now and we can get two birds with

one stone

two nooses.

And yes, I've said that if the danger of not outing the reason for my townread on the fish-riding-a-bike-2000 outweighs the benefits of

not

revealing it (i.e. getting a townie in danger of being lynched--me or him), I will obviously explain it. No, it's not a made-up read, I have no reasons to lie as town and I don't do silly gambits like that to spark discussion just to smother it afterwards by saying I wouldn't want it discussed.

You are very energetic, very quick paced and aggressive in playing style.
I like the aggression, it's good to catch people off guard.
But it seems to me you're someone you can be on the "good side" of, or the "bad side".
On the good side, you seem to overlook things.

It's not a personality quirk/posting style.
Going against any suspicion on yourself with an attack is suspicious.
If you feel you have to get Deltabacon, I'm forced to try to stop you, since I do have a town read on him.
It has changed suddenly, since I read over his posts again, but then not only in ISO.
I realized that actually, we are all just as confused over your obvtown reads, and your mafia reads.
None of them explained, it's only logic to question, it's not lingering on purpose.

I think you think you know what you're doing... but you don't.
You have experience in mafia forum, and you believe that that gives you some power that makes your hunches correct, well it
doesn't.
You are joining with the mafia.
Vote who you will, I am so certain, the outcome of the game will give you the answer, but that's too far to wait.
Buldermar is a mafia, who whispers in the ears of innocent townies, giving them false trails.

Oh, and I can see now that James agrees... well, I guess that the outcome of our votes could prove if sylvant/ovyo/mrjameswatson are townies or not.

[Natural_river]

(applause for the dramatics please)

[Tierce]

Funny. You seem to have ignored this altogether:

That, and the fact that you have the tendency not to explain hardly any of your actions, I can see that you are a more experienced player, maybe you know more about the game than I do, but this alone is not going to convince me fully that you are indeed town, you might as easily be an experienced mafia.

?
Really? I thought I was explaining myself quite thoroughly so far when it comes to scumreads. It could be my perception, though--I don't play as many newbie games anymore and I'm not used to explaining my thought process every step of the way. Where did I not explain myself that you would like more detail about?

My reads are explained quite thoroughly, and you are just throwing some vagueness as to how they aren't without being specific. You're trying to discredit me without showing in concrete why you think I'm wrong. That has scummy motivation behind it, because you're not really trying to figure out what I'm doing, just removing my credibility when you have no evidence that I'm wrong.

[buldermar]

I knew it...
oh, I have this feeling about you buldermar... and it keeps growing.
You can't handle any pressure, at all.
Whenever any attention is focused your way, you get freaked.
I purposely talked about your quoting style, for one, it IS annoying, even the new guy noticed this first thing he joined.
And for second, I needed something to link to you being mafia.
To see how you would react.
Your reaction to a potential threat is attack.
You haven't fully attacked me yet, but you're building it up.
You want to vote people you don't like, not people you suspect.

Look at the points I've made. What about them is inaccurate? Why are you not answering

any

of my questions? There is nothing in your post to defend myself against (if there is, tell me what).

You changed your quoting style, and then your suspicions face N_R because of the quoting talk?

Go check my other games. It should be fairly obvious that I did not change my quoting style.

Hey buldermar--you should be voting Deltabacon. We can get his buddy tomorrow. I'm a huge not-a-fan of how Natural_river jumped off Deltabacon to make a larger wagon on you just now, and how he's trying to paint a personality quirk/posting style as something bad, so cooperate with me now and we can get two birds with

one stone

two nooses.

I'm going to do just this.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Deltabacon

[buldermar]

I know this is a rather uncommon request to make, but is there a way to verify that MrJamesWatson and Natural_river are not the same person? They share much with respect to posting style and are both new players. Please think about it before you interpret this as panic on my part.

[Tierce]

I understand that one, and I wondered about it too.

@izak, can you please check buldermar's 235?

Also,

BULDERMAR IS AT L-1. ANY HAMMER WITHOUT GETTING A CLAIM BEFOREHAND WILL BE CONSIDERED A SCUMCLAIM.

[buldermar]

Thank you, Tierce.

[Natural_river]

Well, Tierce, I amjust going to say this.
I do not find your reasons on voting someone sufficient, you voted Ovyo becasue sylvant voted paperspirit who was obvtown to you,but cannot be proven it is so.
So in other words, to me you had a gut feeling and went with it. Not going to suffice.

You voted Buldermar, and I believe you explained pretty well why,and I agreed.
Now you unvoted buldermar,and I don't see the reason in doing that, it was right after he asked you to be replaced.
Yes it's normal for someone to ask for replacement for someone who has been inactive for a while, but that just matched too perfectly with you being suspicious
of him.
To me that screams " oh, I hope she get's replaced".
And you unvote him for that.
I don't get it.

Now this latest post of buldermar tells me 100% that he is mafia.
Asking me to check his other games to see his gaming style, knowing I won't.
Voting Deltabacon along with you, he loves the safety you are giving him.

And no, we aren't the same people.
I don't know why he so agrees with me, probably to get me on his good side.
Understandable since his slot has eyes on him.

[izakthegoomba]

Certain circumstances have required me to put this game on hold until further notice. Sorry for the inconvenience; I'll send out a PM when we know how and when the game will proceed.

[izakthegoomba]

Sorry for the wait, guys - we're having to replace several players for reasons I cannot go into currently. I'll get the thread open again ASAP.

Cheery Dog will be replacing Natural_river
JasonWazza will be replacing fish-riding-a-bike-2000
Leonshade will be replacing MrJamesWatson

[izakthegoomba]

Replacement PMs are out; sorry for the inconvenience. I hope we can get the game going again smoothly. Note the new deadline, adjusted to compensate for the lost time.

Votecount 1.08

buldermar (4) - vendetta21, Airick10, Cheery Dog, Leonshade
Deltabacon (3) - Tierce, JasonWazza, buldermar
Tierce (1) - Deltabacon
Leonshade (1) - RedRabbit
vendetta21 (0) -

none

Airick10 (0) -

none

Cheery Dog (0) -

none

JasonWazza (0) -

none

RedRabbit (0) -

none

No Lynch (0) -

none

Not voting (0) -

none

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline: (expired on 2012-10-21 07:16:47)

[Tierce]

So. We're lynching Deltabacon, and if he flips scum, tomorrow we're going for one of Cheery Dog/Leonshade. Should

that

one flip town, we lynch the other. Sorry for that, replacement folks--it's not your fault at all, but it's pretty evident that one of you is scum and it's not JasonWazza.

Let's make this as painless as possible. This is pretty much assured a town win, so we should get that out of the way and on to other games.

[Tierce]

If Deltabacon flips scum and I die tonight, you lynch Cheery Dog and Leonshade until one of them flips scum. No questions asked, just do it. I guarantee that Deltabacon's scum flip will turn this into a town victory if you go along with this.

[Cheery Dog]

Given what it appears the circumstances of this going on hold and getting replacements, I don't think I'll attempt to read this game, well not the later part where they came into it anyway.

First lets get rid of this vote that is in the wrong place.

unvote

[Tierce]

Honestly I don't really suggest bothering to read the game, no. It feels somewhat dirty, but it's not the town's fault. Choo choo auto-pilot.

Please don't ask me to explain this situation, as I don't want to taint the game further. I'll explain my take on things in full after the game is over, but I would really not add to the mess right now. In addition, I'd like to state that I have no information the players currently in the game don't have as well, this is straight deduction work--I wouldn't stay in the game if I felt I had compromised information in comparison with everyone else.

[JasonWazza]

Clearly some shit went down, I'd read but considering what Tierce has said i am scared to.

Also why if 1 of the replacements is scum, am i insta-town?

[Tierce]

Oh, that one. I might as well out it now since you might actually get in danger of getting lynched if I die tonight and town derps a bit.

They've been asking me to explain this since ...8 pages ago? That sounds about right. Might as well since etc.

You are PaperSpirit's slot. That slot obvtowned by voting No Lynch at the start of D1. I have seen several newbie players doing that, and never,

ever

have I seen newbie scum do that. It's a fantastic paralyzed-newbtown tell. It was awesome because it kept me from reading most of what fish-riding-a-bike-2000 posted, and I can't say I feel I missed something.

[JasonWazza]

(Not sure what to do at this point)

I will try and read up until the 3 replaced slots started joining in, see what i can pull out.

@Tierce; If you can without going into the iffy part of the game, why is DeltaBacon scum?

[Tierce]

It's not your (or anyone's here) fault that those slots effed up. Feel free to read, I'm just saying there's not much point in

bothering

to read the game in full because this is very likely a town win should we lynch who I've said. (Either way, it's mostly me and buldermar going back and forth and we're now obvtown, sooo.)

Deltabacon has merrily misrepresented me on a few points by twisting my words. Then we have stuff like the fact that he has no visible reads at all except for me, when he said that having no reads was scummy behavior; he has spent all his time going against me, mostly for me refusing to explain that PaperSpirit (you) obvtown read, when I had repeatedly explained that outing that info could harm town (and now that I am getting into detail, I didn't want to explain that strong townread because of the following: I didn't want anyone else taking advantage by faking newbie behavior, which is relatively easy to do early in the game; people are out of excuses to do so with the present game state). Go read Post 208 and see how in Post 203 he complains about me taking "a single post from half the game ago" to call him scum. This is especially glaring when

he hadn't posted since

. It's whining scum.

In addition, once the slot found itself wagoned, Natural_river (Cheery Dog), who was until then just fine with the wagon, jumped off, jumped onto buldermar, and dragged MrJamesWatson (Leonshade) along, turning this situation:

Deltabacon (3) - Tierce, fish-riding-a-bike-2000, Natural_river
buldermar (2) - vendetta21, Airick10
vendetta21 (2) - ovyo, buldermar
Tierce (1) - Deltabacon
ovyo (1) - RedRabbit

into this:

buldermar (4) - vendetta21, Airick10, Natural_river, MrJamesWatson
Deltabacon (2) - Tierce, fish-riding-a-bike-2000
vendetta21 (1) - buldermar
Tierce (1) - Deltabacon
MrJamesWatson (1) - RedRabbit

If you don't think this is scum jumping on a counterwagon do defend his buddy, I have a bridge to sell you.

You're town, there's no frigging way I am scum with any of them otherwise this would be the stupidest, most contrived bus ever, buldermar is three levels of obvtown with that vote shift, Airick, RedRabbit and vendetta are probtown. Engage autopilot, sit back, wait for scum flips.