Newbie 1289 - Game Over!

[Deltabacon]

Way to totally ignore the point I made.

You offered to replace into the game, at which point you could have been reading. Leonshade was posting frequently when I said that, and he could have skimmed over the important points, formed reads and gone through with what he believed to be the case.

[Deltabacon]

Also,

@Mod, please prod Vendetta if not done already. He's been inactive for 4 days now.

[JasonWazza]

Actually first time i was informed (and i would guess CD and leon are the same) that the game would continue AND i was one of the ones in the game was when it restarted.

[Deltabacon]

So you didn't bother reading the game at all, you all just replaced in anyway?

[Tierce]

Announcing intent to Self-Hammer.

DOn't do that. Well, if you're Town anyway, feel free to self-hammer if you're scum.

Tierce, I know that you don't share my opinion on this matter, but I'm not going to deviate from playing to my win condition for the sake of artificially tweaking the game experience so it resembles that of a conventional game. I'm sorry that we disagree, but I don't think you'll easily be able to change my mind, so please save yourself the trouble of trying to (feel free to blame me, though).

I'm perfectly fine with you making that post, I don't blame you, and neither does anyone involved in the game, I believe. My point is that it was the kind of post

I

, in particular, was trying to avoid writing, because I'm not just a player here, and that kind of approach to the gamepretty much defeats the whole idea of teaching how to play "normally". Do you see the difference?


I'll address the rest later, I haven't slept in far too long.

[JasonWazza]

a mafia game is a mafia game, i would have read more had it not been for the circumstances (i read like the first 6-7 pages in the end) and i asked tierce why she was sitting on you as scum, her case is extremely valid and your flailing around makes it so much more so.

I replace into a lot of games for the main reason, don't want newbies having slots that aren't filled and seeking replacements and so on, after reading the game was halted due to said replacements, i decided what the hell that game probably needs these players a lot.

P-Edit: It does kinda defeat the purpose for newbs but i don't think it is as bad as you think, i think most will realize this is a extreme case and won't happen ever again (i hope)

[Tierce]

*shrug* As I said, I'm not blaming anyone for using the information they have access to, it's fine and may well be playing to the town wincon. I'm saying that as an IC it would probably be somewhat underhanded of me to present that kind of stuff to push a case.

[Leonshade]

Yeah, to be honest the strategy doesn't lend itself to forum mafia. I won't be using it again in a hurry.

Announcing intent to Self-Hammer.

No, I'm going to hammer you when I think today's discussion is over. I'd like to see Airick and RedRabbit (and ideally Vendetta) to post their final thoughts before I hammer you.

[buldermar]

Ninja'd twice: I truly, truly cannot describe just how certain I am of Leon's and Dog's scumhood. I realise that a self-hammer is suboptimal, however I see it as bringing a mafia lynch that much closer, and since there is two mafiosos in this setup, I think trading 2 townies for a mafioso (barring a doc save) is acceptable.

Only closer in terms of real life time, which is irrelevant. What is it that you fear will happen if you don't self-hammer, and why will this not happen if you do?

[Cheery Dog]

So you didn't bother reading the game at all, you all just replaced in anyway?

There is always a chance that when you offer to replace someone else gets the slot first. and when I'm already in 10+ games, I'm not going to bother reading a game that I might not actually replace into.
I'll generally read the last page or so before offering to replace in, but the start of the game may not always happen.
I don't bother reading a game thread I'm replacing into until after I know myself to be alive, I'm not going to go through the trouble I went with replacing into a 50 page mini normal to be killed before I could post again.

[buldermar]

Announcing intent to Self-Hammer.

DOn't do that. Well, if you're Town anyway, feel free to self-hammer if you're scum.

Tierce, I know that you don't share my opinion on this matter, but I'm not going to deviate from playing to my win condition for the sake of artificially tweaking the game experience so it resembles that of a conventional game. I'm sorry that we disagree, but I don't think you'll easily be able to change my mind, so please save yourself the trouble of trying to (feel free to blame me, though).

I'm perfectly fine with you making that post, I don't blame you, and neither does anyone involved in the game, I believe. My point is that it was the kind of post

I

, in particular, was trying to avoid writing, because I'm not just a player here, and that kind of approach to the gamepretty much defeats the whole idea of teaching how to play "normally". Do you see the difference?

Totally, and I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I misread that you wanted to avoid that kind of post from anyone. I can see how you're in a more awkward position than me.

[Deltabacon]

Well, to be honest I don't think much more can really be said until Vendetta and co post. Under Tierce's direction I won't self-hammer (also, Leon oh-so-kindly offered to do it).

[RedRabbit]

I'm really confused Delta.

Isn't Leon offering to hammer proof that your ploy has worked? You

announced

that the probable scum are not on your wagon, so what did you expect them to do? They couldn't stay there because according to you that would have pointed the FoS on them tomorrow, them jumping over now seems like a good move to validate your play and get town to trust them. In the end I don't think it's helped town all that much, because after announcing it at least one scum and probably

only one scum

, (if you are town), will gladly jump over to split any alignment reads/scum reads we could have gained from it tomorrow. IF you flip scum on the other hand, well then, that

might

give us something. Which is what I'm betting.

And announcing to self-hammer so that we can get "closer" to a lynch on D2 doesn't make much sense because, as Buldemar pointed out, that's only "closer" IRL, which makes no difference. The fastest way of doing it, which is what you seem to be advocating, would have been just to hammer. Am I getting that wrong? I think you did it in order that people might unvote and give you some breathing room.

I'm ready and don't have much more to offer.

[Deltabacon]

I didn't do it to get people to unvote, I did it to spur people into a final bout of discussion. As it stands I have been asked by Tierce and convinced by both Tierce and Buldermar to not self-hammer, and as it stands Leon is prepared to drop it anyway.

[RedRabbit]

Fair enough. It worked.

At the risk of repeating myself we can only evaluate it when you flip.

Self-hammering shouldn't have come up though if you're town, you should let the scum do it. IF you are town and we need to evaluate wagons tomorrow then having you as one of the 5 doesn't help.

[Deltabacon]

Yeah, I realised that when Tierce and Buldermar argued against a self-hammer, it's easier to get reads on people if my vote remains off of myself. Anyway, I heavily

FoS Leonshade and Cheery Dog

for the reasons mentioned previously, and it remains more optimal for my vote to stay on scum at this point in time.

[izakthegoomba]

vendetta21 has been prodded.

Votecount 1.09

Deltabacon (4) - Tierce, JasonWazza, RedRabbit, Cheery Dog
buldermar (1) - vendetta21
Leonshade (1) - Deltabacon
Tierce (0) -

none

vendetta21 (0) -

none

Airick10 (0) -

none

Cheery Dog (0) -

none

JasonWazza (0) -

none

RedRabbit (0) -

none

No Lynch (0) -

none

Not voting (3) - Leonshade, Airick10, buldermar

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline: (expired on 2012-10-21 07:16:47)

[Tierce]

So... nothing new on the horizon?

As a note, http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4411825
This does not change the townread I had on the slot to begin with,no matter if it's the same guy playing all three accounts.

Leonshade/buldermar, please hammer this. Airick is not going to vote Deltabacon, he will not hammer himself, vendetta is MIA.

[Tierce]

EBWOP: The above townread comment is about PaperSpirit/fish-riding-a-bike-2000, obviously.

[Leonshade]

Yeah, this is going nowhere.

VOTE: Deltabacon

[buldermar]

So... nothing new on the horizon?

As a note, http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4411825
This does not change the townread I had on the slot to begin with,no matter if it's the same guy playing all three accounts.

Leonshade/buldermar, please hammer this. Airick is not going to vote Deltabacon, he will not hammer himself, vendetta is MIA.

I can't make sense of this. Is it possible that fish-riding was a 2nd person playing on the same IP/computer? A friend or a brother? The posting style of fish-riding is so dissimilar.

[Tierce]

It's possible. Again, it's pretty pointless to dwell on at the moment, since that slot is pretty clearly Town as of now. We'll see what Tomorrow brings.

[izakthegoomba]

Apologies for this coming a little late. I think my subscriptions are broken.

Votecount 1.10

Deltabacon (5) - Tierce, JasonWazza, RedRabbit, Cheery Dog, Leonshade
buldermar (1) - vendetta21
Leonshade (1) - Deltabacon
Tierce (0) -

none

vendetta21 (0) -

none

Airick10 (0) -

none

Cheery Dog (0) -

none

JasonWazza (0) -

none

RedRabbit (0) -

none

No Lynch (0) -

none

Not voting (2) - Airick10, buldermar

Deltabacon has been lynched. He was a

Townie

.

Night 1 starts now. All actions must be sent to me within (expired on 2012-10-21 03:35:40)

Vendetta21 will be replaced if he doesn't PM me within 24 hours.

[izakthegoomba]

A replacement is being sought for Vendetta21.

RedRabbit,

Townie

, was killed Night 1

Votecount 2.00

buldermar (0) -

none

Leonshade (0) -

none

Tierce (0) -

none

vendetta21 (0) -

none

Airick10 (0) -

none

Cheery Dog (0) -

none

JasonWazza (0) -

none

No Lynch (0) -

none

Not voting (7) - Airick10, buldermar, Tierce, JasonWazza, Cheery Dog, Leonshade, vendetta21

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline: (expired on 2012-11-04 16:50:01)

[Cheery Dog]

Since Delta flipped town, I will now be assuming that it is a buldermar/leonshade scum team.
This could explain the the jumps onto bulder's slot from both leon's and my slots.
In that they were wanting a quick town win.