Ladies Night 2: No Cover -- (Game Over)

[DrippingGoofball]

That was addressed to TraceyLynn.

[RedCoyote]

Vote Count 2 - 6

• TraceyLyn11

  (4) (springlullaby - camn - DrippingGoofball - PiggyGal15)
  
  
  Apokalyptika
  (3) (Sucrose -

  PiggyGal15

  - Fujiko - Eidolon)
  
  
  RachMarie
  (3) (Tammy - Apokalyptika - Huntress)
  
  
  Not Voting
  (5) (RachMarie - Amrun - Brandi - TraceyLyn11 - Seastormjt)

With fifteen alive, it takes eight to lynch.

Current Deadline:

(expired on 2012-10-23 20:07:00)

[TraceyLyn11]

Tracey - I assume your doing a read on everybody and that's what's taking so long. Why do you feel the need to do a read of everyone?

The biggest reason is because my reads from my initial read through and my reads through everyone's ISO's have not been coming up the same. I'm doing this as much for your all's sake as my own. I've never been in a game this large, and it's a bit daunting to remember everyone let alone what alignment I think they are. There's those few that just stood out to me, but I stress

few

. The large majority fell into, "Wait... What were they again? Why in the world did I think that?"

You waste a lot of time posting useless. argumentative nonsense, when you could post your partial analysis.

Also, you're probably procrastinating the analysis, and you haven't even started, because it's tedious work when you already know who the scum is.

haha

[Sucrose]

Tracey, would you just go ahead and post the chunks you have, and end this argument already?

[Tammy]

Alright guys, I have a suggestion:

We have 6 days left. We also have a vig. What I suggest is that we ferret out scum like normal, going to L-1, only instead of lynching, we get a claim, then move on to our next suspect as if it were the next day. At night, the vig should hit the first suspect if they're a claimed VT, (unless they really believe her). It's essentially two lynches for the price of one. Yes, this

is

more likely to make scum fakeclaim PR roles, but since we know the number of PR's, those will blow up on them in the end, and will almost certainly blow up on them before LyLo.
What I'm really afraid of is one of our other two real PR's getting accidentally vigged, which is the biggest risk with a vig, and could be devastating for town.

If anyone has any objections to this plan that I've overlooked, please state them.

Personally, I'd like one of them to be Apokalyptika. Nothing she's said has moved my radar off of "mildly scummy" and I'm very ehhhh about the Tracey wagon. It just doesn't seem strong enough to lynch over.

I don't see how this would work. I just looked at the vig role pm and it doesn't say that they can choose one person each night like the other pms say; it just says during the night. That would lead me to believe that they're a one shot. I don't really agree with this strategy anyway as it seems like it could cause too many problems.

[TraceyLyn11]

Tracey, would you just go ahead and post the chunks you have, and end this argument already?

No. I'll be done in an hour or so, I think.

[Tammy]

Tracey - I assume your doing a read on everybody and that's what's taking so long. Why do you feel the need to do a read of everyone?

The biggest reason is because my reads from my initial read through and my reads through everyone's ISO's have not been coming up the same. I'm doing this as much for your all's sake as my own. I've never been in a game this large, and it's a bit daunting to remember everyone let alone what alignment I think they are. There's those few that just stood out to me, but I stress

few

. The large majority fell into, "Wait... What were they again? Why in the world did I think that?"

Everyone works differently, but there really isn't a need to do a read on everybody on day two of a large game. Giving your strongest reads on a few people is sufficient, you could keep the others you're still working on in a draft or something.

[Brandi]

Tammy, if it was 1-shot, it was specify "1 shot" in the role name.

[TraceyLyn11]

Finally. Here's my formal introduction. I'm TraceyLyn11. Tracey is good. I have never played a theme game, and I have only ventured out of the Nnwbie queue once before (and lost...). I have nine newbie games under my belt, though, so I do have experience. I've read up on plenty of open and newbie games outside of the ones I've been in. So, even though I may know how the open and newbie setups work, theme's and normal's are completely foreign to me. With that being said, this particular game looks simple enough, but be prepared for the occasional question - and don't make fun of me if the answers seem obvious!

Now, onto the game. I read over the game in order, and I am now going through ISO's to provide fresher reads with examples. I will make a catch-up post (responding to everything from day two - none of that is in here) after this one. Though I don't think I will tonight. That post isn't as important, though.

There is no particular order under each category.

TOWN

Eidolon
Tammy
Sea
Huntress

NULL-TOWN

Amrun
Brandi
Camn

NULL

Apok/Katty/Mathgirl
Spring

NULL-SCUM

Fujiko
Piggy
DGB

SCUM

Sucrose
Rach
(Piggy could be argued to be here as well)

---

Rach:

The only person here that I have played with before. I don't like how she came in going after Telo right away. She claims Telo defended Piggy, but in her next post instead of pointing out defensive posts, she points out posts that show Telo dancing around the Piggy wagon. Rach is the first on the Telo wagon. In post #293 Rach bothers me with two things. First, she promises reads and never delivers (nor brings it up again, actually). Second, I don't like her statement,

"I just do not see anyone, even a very experienced player doing the fake dayvig thingy as scum."

I don't understand why that would seem implausible even from an inexperienced player. I mean, it's a pretty safe gambit. All you have to do is say what DGB said. I don't think Rach's statement makes sense from a scum point-of-view unless DGB is her partner, though (this doesn't mean that Rach can't be scum if DGB isn't scum. This just means that the statement is only worrisome if DGB is scum too). This post hurts my head. Tammy already mentioned this, but in post #382 Rach apologizes for missing the fact that scum have day talk in her

first read

. No where before in any of her other posts had she stated or even seemed oblivious to the fact that scum have day talk, so one might ask why she was apologizing for it. I would like to know the answer to that as well as: Why did she mention that this was her second read? Moving on... From the time of her vote to the time of the hammer she didn't question Telo at all. She didn't push her. She didn't interact with her at all. The only thing she mentioned in regards to her vote was that it was good and that Telo kept getting scummier and scummier. At one point she posted an example about how Telo wasn't responding from her Nook and that she must be capable of saying something useful. Something in that post bothered me a lot, though. This quote:

"So I doubt she will say anything that makes me feel she is not scum. It is still a remote possibility that I am wrong about her, but very remote."

It has been a little while since we've been in a game together, but it sounds odd coming from Rach that someone has hardly any chance to redeem themselves. From my [faulty] memory, Rach was always more... Cautious. She didn't have those, "She's scum, guise" reads. She had, "I think she's scum, but she did do this, so I could be wrong" type of reads.

Overall, Rach's ISO is very small. She has hardly contributed anything to the game other than a mostly idle vote. When she first hopped on Telo, it read as though she already knew her alignment. A lot of other people were being fairly scummy, but she chose Telo. And for pretty bad reasoning at that. I just completed a scum game (after being town almost the entire rest of my career on this website), and it reminded me of how difficult it can be to create a case against your partner. You want to make them look scummy, but you don't want to go too far with it for fear of looking like you have extra information. With that being said, it looks a lot like Rach's bad reasoning was a result of already knowing Telo's alignment. Her not providing anything else of note to the game (nor commenting on anyone else's alignments aside from DGB, City, and Brandi) really sets off warning bells for me. It's not that she reads as if she's busy with other things and is simply falling behind. It reads as if she's purposely active lurking.

Amrun:

Amrun comes in asking several questions to several different people due to their RVS choices, etc. She voted Sucrose after a line of questioning to her about whether or not RVS ending quickly was done in a scummy way or not. When I first read this over, I liked it. Even now it rings townish the way Amrun handled it. Especially when she goes on to say that Piggy is scummiest, but before switching her vote, pushes on Sucrose a little more. The entire vote read as a reaction fish of sorts, and it makes me feel good about Amrun. The only thing I dislike is that she continues to cling onto Sucrose being scummy and soon after returns to her when the Piggy wagon was certain to fail. She continues to pressure Sucrose, as well as turning her attention onto others and asking them probing questions. I don't much like post #476, but I can't exactly put my finger on why, so I'm just kind of mentioning it as a reminder to myself to look into it later in the game. This post gives me a similar feeling as the other; though, I think I can better articulate the reasoning of why it bothers me. It seems a little opportunistic. She left Sucrose without any care in the world, and suddenly expressed the thinking that Telo was very scummy - before this she had hardly even mentioned Telo or the wagon that was building on her. She also gives the, "Well, even if she's town, it's not good to do stuff like that." It just seems like backtracking.

Overall, Amrun seems like she's town. She's been pushing people, she's been pressuring people. I don't care much for her end of the day behavior, but aside from that I don't have any complaints. I don't think Amrun is a good lynch at all.

Brandi:

Brandi repeatedly mentions her thoughts on the RVS theory. She also repeatedly states that her and her opponent should stop talking about it and discuss something else... Whilst talking about it in that same post. The discussion continued up to around ISO 16. Past that, others continue to bring it up, but Brandi is actually making an effort to end the pointless discussion by making her posts intentionally curt or else discussing a different, more significant part of her opponents argument (a part that could actually be useful; i.e. post #114). This post - as aggressive as it was - sounds pretty townish. Spring has been pushing her about theory, RVS, fallacies, etc. since pretty early in the game. I think scum would be more happy about the theory talk - it distracts from the game. Brandi's lashing out at Spring for continuously repeating the same things just seems more like an annoyed townie [on her period].
...
And she goes back into the RVS discussion when Amrun brings it back up.

This post is pretty

meh

. She had asserted earlier in the game that she had little experience, and that her meta was pretty lacking; however, in the linked post she uses meta to say that scum have attempted tunneling her before. I also find it amusing that she says this because in her next several posts the only content she provides is to say that Spring is scum [with Telo]. And then there's post #349 which sounds incredibly fake. It was completely out of nowhere (her asking about day talk, I mean). Even if she really didn't know the answer to that, I don't understand why she'd ask it rather than look it up herself. It just reads as a way to earn herself town cred (and by the amount of people who "don't know", I'd say if Brandi

is

scum, her partners and her discussed it in the day talk QT, so they could all earn some town cred; actually, I wouldn't be surprised if - assuming I'm correct - at least one of the scums aren't claiming that they did know about it. That way it would tie them all together... /revelation). Soon following that is: no. Just no. On the other hand, this sounds pretty legitimate. And this. Not so much the first sentence of this. And so-on-and-so-forth. I'll stop link-dumping.

Overall, meh. She spends so much time arguing back-and-forth with Spring (though I will admit that that wasn't all her fault). The whole day talk thing. But other than those, her reactions just seem townish. By that I mean, she gets angry, heated, caught up in it. From my experience scum will pick fights, and the townie will get all upset and huffy about the situation while the scum is almost snide about it.

That's the feel I got from the Spring-Brandi argument (I'll touch more on it under Spring's ISO).

After a re-read of Spring, I have her at null, so this really could go town-town or scum-town. I don't think it's scum-scum at all. I'm cautiously placing Brandi under null-town.

Camn:

She comes in swinging... Sort of. This post makes me feel all happy inside about Camn. Probtown. She continues to ask questions, create reactions, etc., etc. Oh, I do love reaction fishing. I still agree with Huntress about post #423. I think Camn misrepresented Telo to some degree, especially about Telo's "lacking" early posts. However, knowing the flip and knowing Camn's just a pretty aggressive, eager player from her earlier posts, I don't think the post is quite as bad as I had originally thought.

Overall, tentative town. I believed her in her early post when she was talking about Piggy coaching - it sounded genuine, and I figured it gave Camn town cred. Then I saw in a later post that it was all a reaction fish. With that being said, I obviously can't tell completely when Camn is telling the truth or not, so I can't totally trust my town read on her. In the null-town pile she goes.

Spring:

She begins going after Brandi for the RVS stuff. For quite awhile. Then we come upon this quote:

Please describe to me what has happened in the game so far that warranted my attention more than Brandi. My position on the subject is what had happened prior to my vote on Brandi was not very interesting.

Which sounds a lot like "Why me?"

She continues to push Brandi, calling her scum and such. In this post under 'c', that just sounds like a horrible attack against someone. Town wouldn't apologize for calling someone stupid? I don't know about you, but I tend to prefer being

nice

. If I call someone stupid in anger, I'm going to apologize. I don't think I'm alone in that venture either. I like post #340, however. I didn't notice in Brandi's ISO that she had had a dead vote on Sea for so long. But then there's this quote right before the night phase:

I am of a heart to take a very close look at Bunny or City anyway.

Awkward. Don't know if it's really a scummy post, though. Will have to think on it.

Overall, I don't even know. I don't like her attacks against Brandi. They seem very condescending and just read as someone pushing hard for a mislynch. It looked as though there were quite a few misrepresentations, but to be honest, I just didn't pay attention enough to this ISO to really notice anything of specific note in that category. I like how Spring is pushing everyone and asking questions. I like how she has stayed mostly consistent. She's a null read.

Piggy:

Piggy comes in joking around. I don't find anything wrong with her first post like some of you did (though, I don't think I've ever seen town self-vote, so meh. There's that). In post #55 Piggy comments on how she doesn't get reads in mini games until late day two. She votes Telo (third vote on the wagon) after DGB tells her to, and she rides that vote all the way to deadline assuring everyone Telo is definitely scum. This post goes back to earlier in the day when she had been voting herself. After being called out by it from Sea, she unvotes. That post bothers me... I'd expect town to maybe challenge Sea or ignore her request. If they went so far to draw attention to themselves via a self-vote, then they're probably willing to leave the vote on for reactions. Then the doozy: the day vig. I really don't understand why everyone thought this and were townish. The posts are just so small and lacking anything of substance. If I was day vigged I would say my role right away. Not to mention I'd probably start listing off my reads or thoughts on the game before the mod could come back in. I realize a lot of you thought Piggy was newbtown, but if you look at her join date and look at the fact that she has been in three completed games... She's obviously not

that

newb. She understood the mechanics of the game. What's even more bothersome is she didn't even mention DGB's or Sucrose's part in the gambit. DGB's part in it could have been argued to be townish (though she could have outed a town PR fairly early...), but Sucrose not as much. There wasn't really any reason for Sucrose to jump in and try to convince Piggy even more of the gambit, especially considering that Piggy already responded with a "seemingly" townish response. It was just unnecessary. Bah, but back to Piggy. She votes Telo directly after DGB asked her to (though she said DGB ninja'd her. However, a few posts before - one she would have obviously seen - DGB voted Telo. It still looks like sheeping) for... What reasoning? This was the post she mentioned in her vote post, but it obviously doesn't say anything about Telo's alignment (or not strongly so, at least). Telo had responded a few times between the day vig and Piggy's vote on her, but they were only the post I just linked, a sassy post at Eidolon that wasn't really significant to anything, and a post saying that she had asked what was going on. Nothing significantly indicative of her alignment. Yet Piggy

just

had the sudden urge to vote her. Right after DGB. Okay. I believe this post was her admitting to sheeping (da fuck did I just watch?). The rest of her posts following her vote are just, "OHMYGOD YOU VOTED TELO HAVE A COOKIE" "COOKIE" "COOOOOOOKIE". Nothing of substance. She literally rode the wagon to a lynch. I don't understand why town would do that.

Overall, the majority of her posts have been fluff. She's been buddying DGB a lot (and repeating a lot of what she says). She rode the Telo wagon to a lynch in an overly confident manner. And her reaction to the day vig. None of it seems like it's from town. The only issue I have with calling her obvscum is that her play style is so unusual that it has me a little unnerved about whether this is just

her

or if this is her being scum.

Fujiko:

After calling Piggy town several times, she pretty opportunistically jumps on the wagon. Six people are already on it, and her vote followed Telo's who had Fujiko as a town read. Fujiko had Telo as a null-scum read (I think?). Could be classic distancing/bussing. There were a few instances of of Fujiko seemingly sheeping other people's thoughts/reads. Lots of "I agree"s. Not necessarily bad, but it's a warning bell. This post is pretty meh. Especially this quote:

Or like I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into it. I'm not sure exactly if newly-dead people say "is" or "was" -

especially ones that are fairly new.

Look at a quote that was made only fifty-four posts before:

Piggy's post 213 looks pretty bad to me, honestly. (Although I don't get the seastorm wagon either.) Until then,

she looked like someone who was new.

(Many of us in this game aren't far behind.) I don't like the scum philosophy bit at all. I was looking at the self-vote as a nervous joke, not a reaction test - as a reaction test,

the nervous newish player makes less sense

.

Just something of note. Another thing of note in that post is that Fujiko unvoted as people were leaving the wagon. By the time she unvoted there were only three people still on Piggy's wagon.

"What do people do when they don't know where to put their vote, anyway?"

and

"I'm not convinced she's scum by any stretch, but I'd be interested in hearing more from her."

Ohgawdwatisthis.

Fujiko continues to be very agreeable. She is casting soft suspicion on a lot of people while not totally standing by that read on them.

Overall, I can't decide whether she's just too new to know better or if she's scum. Or both. Some of her play reminds me of my first game (I was town), so I'm very hesitant with this. On the other hand, she's had some experience, so she knows how the game should work. With that being said, I think I'm going to ignore her seemingly newbieness and say she's pretty scummy.

Tammy:

Town. Just town.

DGB:

Starting off she goes after Piggy for her intro post. This quote has always bugged (and confused) me:

Obviously, from the FOS list, her partners are at least CityElectric and Huntress.

I can't tell if DGB was joking or not.

She continues to push Piggy. Soon adds Telo to her list (for reasons unknown). This post is kind of ironic. Don't know what it means to the game, though. DGB pretends to dayvig Piggy. I find it kind of amusing that DGB knew there wasn't a dayvig, but she didn't know there wasn't day talk. Sounds fake. Amusing that she wants a case on Sucrose when she never provided one (nor reasoning, I believe) for her Telo vote. I don't like that she repeatedly states that Sucrose is likely town and that Piggy is confirmed town. Sounds fake. I don't care much for post #469. She had just had our slot listed as null-scum. She has made no other mention of Flinter before this either. I kind of like this post, though. It's a good point. Her attack on Telo for the lack of claim at the end of the day is a null-tell. I assume she'd do it as either alignment.

Overall, she reminds of Thor665. Very reactionary. This makes it hard to read her. I think some of the stuff she has done could be called scummy, but I also know she's a somewhat unconventional player. I think the questions she asks and how she pushes on everyone is townish, but I also realize that that's not so difficult to fake as scum. I'm going to go with my gut and say null-scum.

Eidolon:

Town. Just town.

Huntress:

Post #154 sounds pretty townish. She starts off saying people agreeing with her makes her a bit suspicious. Then she says that Sucrose has been doing that and has even used the same wording as her which is alarming. She goes on to explain how Sucrose pretty opportunistically jumped onto the Piggy wagon. I don't disagree with her findings, and it just feels townish in all. A good way to start off the game. Another good post is this one. She's asking questions to people, challenging them, stating reads. This quote just screams town:

Why would scum need to coach in thread when they have daytalk?

Scum may know for a fact that they have day talk, but there's not much benefit for them to announce in thread that they know it. It's better to go the route of most others in this game - act oblivious. Town are less likely to know (obviously) than scum, so if you pretend you don't know, you've got a one-way ticket to being considered town (assuming you were convincing in your lie). Huntress went the straight forward route and challenged Camn regardless of it being seen as potentially scummy. This quote has always bothered me:

Especially don't like the line repeated in post 472 which is encouraging a relatively new player to break rules. I'm trying to decide whether Camn would say that if she really thought that Telo was scum, or if she knows it's safe as she knows Telo is town. Actually, it could even be a bus.

It just disconcerts me that Huntress actually took Camn seriously about asking Telo to tell us who her partners were. It was obviously a joke, and even a newbie can figure out that it's not good to name your partners.

Then there's this quote. Telo may have turned up scum, but that doesn't mean the points brought against her were valid. When I first joined the game, I had seen a quick glimpse of Camn's case, so I decided to match the first few of Telo's posts with Camn's case to see if Camn was making sense. I came to the same conclusion as Huntress - a lot of the things Camn was saying were not entirely true about Telo. I also don't like that everyone jumped on Huntress for "white knighting" (I wouldn't even call it that). Was she supposed to just let a lynch ride on information that was faulty? I definitely wouldn't say the timing was the best with how close to deadline it was, but I still don't think it was scummy of Huntress to point out such a thing. Another thing that gives me town vibes about Huntress is her lack of responding to suspicion against her. I know that when I'm town I tend to do that (unless the reasoning is misrepresenting me), and when I'm scum I tend to focus a lot on why people suspect me. The fact that everyone disagreed with her post about Telo and were throwing suspicion at her and

Huntress just ignored it all by asking questions to others in order to better understand or gain reads

just reads as ridiculously townish. However, something I dislike is post #501 where Huntress votes Camn. I think that even though she may have disagreed with the Telo wagon, voting someone with no votes on them that close to deadline was fairly anti-town.

Overall, methinks Huntress is town. Reading through the thread with everything all together left me uneasy about her, but in ISO it just seems very obvious.

Sea:

Is this slot inactive or what? Anyways, post #66 feels pretty townish. Right away she's questioning people and trying to get everyone to participate. Not to mention she wasn't afraid to encourage Piggy for questioning her. This post screams town. Especially looking at how new she is, this sort of stuff doesn't usually come from newbscum (though, then again, I do play in the newbie queue). It's too... Stream-of-conscious-y. I understand that Sea has played on another forum, but in my experience, it still takes awhile for those players to get used to how MafiaScum works.

Overall, I think Sea is town. She's pretty lurky, but it doesn't feel like she's hiding anything, and seeing as how she's somewhat new to this, I'm going to give her town points for that.

Apok/Katty/Mathgirl:

First, Mathgirl. I read one of her other games on MafiaScum awhile ago (er, I guess not that long ago seeing her join date). I remember thinking she seemed pretty obviously town. She was town. I'm getting the same feel from her [three...] posts in this game, as well. The only thing in her posts that really stuck out to me as bad has already been touched on, but:

Soooo reads time. It's never too early for reads. It's just that these reads will change over the course of a game. Especially the first readspost. I fully expect every single one of my reads to be completely wrong. Even if the are mostly null.

I don't like how she's explaining away her reads as wrong already.

Next, Katty. She's... Well, I'm unsure. One thing I didn't notice in my initial read-through was that Katty also said Telo was defending Piggy - just like Rach. Scum tend to accidentally use the same wording as their buddies. Rach said it first, and in her second post after replacing in, Katty used similar wording. I think it may be significant to point out that Katty seems to be knew (she created the account in 2011, but she's still a townsperson). Here's Rach's and Katty's. Both called it defending when Telo was pretty obviously saying she found Piggy scummy. I don't really know what to make of that bit, but meh. Katty replaced out pretty quickly, and Rach's been pretty inactive, so maybe they're both just that inattentive to this game; though, that's not exactly an alignment tell.

Finally, Apok. Apok's one post of note (out of two) doesn't seem scummy. It's just her reads on people of note. She votes Rach. Maybe opportunistic since two votes were already on Rach and the day just started? But she said it was for pressure, and I don't know. Too little to really judge her part in this slot just yet.

Overall, I think the amount of replacements is indicative of town (I disagree with you guys - I've never replaced into a scum slot before, and I'M IN THE NEWBIE QUEUE WHERE PEOPLE ARE LIKELY TO FREAK OUT OVER THE PRESSURE). There's a lack of participation in all of them that makes me think they aren't scum, as well. I'd think scum would be more likely to try and stick it out, but then get too caught up or upset over the pressure. But also, guys, there's day talk. The pressure can't be that hard on scum when their buddies are likely coaching them every step of the way. No, the replacements are indicative of null at worst, town at best. As for their actual play, I'm leaning null mostly because none of the three had really said much of note. Hopefully Apok can better clarify the slot.

Sucrose:

Honesty. I like it. This quote on the other hand:

You're right, I was sheeping your point, I only noticed the incident on re-read. It was a good find. I'm doubtful I would have noticed how few hours had passed between Piggy's post and Sea's on my own, because I usually never pay attention to timestamps.

Bothers me. Normally I'd say as I said before. Honesty is good. However, this feels fake and contrived for some reason. I guess because she added, "Good find." Not to repeatedly go into my meta (because everyone plays like I do, right?), but I know as scum I would often times agree with people because I figured the honesty would earn me town-cred. Much like what she did in the quote.

In post #202 Sucrose says Piggy's posts are "legitimately scummy." Before this she had not mentioned finding Piggy scummy or any of her posts scummy. And then this quote. Oh gosh is it bad. We can tell from the Telo wagon that scum wanted to buss someone, one of their partners. That being said, Piggy was looking like a lynch earlier in the day. Assuming Piggy was scum, her partners could have bussed her, lynched her, and boom. It wouldn't have made what Sucrose said true at all, but it would have probably given her town cred (for whatever reason). After all, she's acting oblivious to the fact that there's day talk. Not to mention she's basically saying how much she's "buying into" the Piggy coaching stuff (though I think this may have been a jab at Piggy rather than referring to what was said earlier in the game - Piggy coaching her buddies). Meh. Just bothers me. AND THEN AND THEN AND THEN THERE'S THIS JEWEL: post #234. But let us look at all of the posts referring to the dayvig.

DGB's fake dayvig. 10:48 am.
Piggy's first response. 12:01 pm.
DGB encouraging Piggy to tell us her alignment. 12:13 pm.
Sucrose's "going along with it" post. 12:22 pm.
Piggy's claim. 12:57 pm.

DGB, Sucrose, and Piggy were all on at the same time. There was about ten minutes between the first few posts (excluding DGB's original dayvig), and then the last one was made about forty minutes later. Of course this is pretty WIFOM, but they didn't make any posts after Piggy's claim even though (presumably) they were all online at the same time. This leads me to believe that a possible scenario is they're all scum partners (or at least two of them are), and were talking to each other via QT before each post was made. This is probably stretching. But meh. The time stamps seem a little too convenient to me. And in Sucrose's next post she doesn't touch on what she thinks of DGB's or Piggy's alignments when the entire gambit centered around them. That seems a little odd.

Moving on, wat. She votes Bunny after saying Fujiko and Telo are both highly scummy. She explains this by saying Bunny needs pressure. ... Telo had five votes on her by the time Sucrose made this post, and Fujiko had two. Bunny has zero. How is that going to pressure her? Later she says this. Though she also had stated that she found Telo and Fujiko legitimately scummy. Why would it be more beneficial for her to vote someone with no votes rather than someone with several? Especially when she found them all to be fairly scummy? My thought is probably because of what happens soon after: Sucrose hammers. It allowed her to prevent Telo from giving anymore information.

Overall, scum scum scum scum. Most of what I say in the above relies on other people and their alignments rather than solely Sucrose's, but it's all just so

convenient

. In the end it boils down to Sucrose's posts being very controlled. Sucrose not being overly townish (i.e. asking questions, challenging people, etc.). She does occasionally, but most of the questions and challenges just seem to be a way of casting suspicion on her opponent.

[DrippingGoofball]

First, I read my personal employee evaluation to get a sense of how well TL reads people. Not very well is the answer. Of course I knew there is no dayvig. There's never any dayvig.

[DrippingGoofball]

First, she promises reads and never delivers (nor brings it up again, actually).
From the time of her vote to the time of the hammer she didn't question Telo at all. She didn't push her. She didn't interact with her at all.
She didn't have those, "She's scum, guise" reads. She had, "I think she's scum, but she did do this, so I could be wrong" type of reads.

Hey, this

is

good. RM is scum, we're lynching her.

VOTE: RachMarie

[TraceyLyn11]

Ah! I knew I was forgetting something in that post:

VOTE: Rach

[DrippingGoofball]

Also, Sucrose is town and let there be no two opinions on this matter. It is settled.

[TraceyLyn11]

Also, DGB, could you just call me Tracey? Or at least not TL. >_>

P-edit: Pft. I disagree.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ Tracey
I'll tell you in the dead QT or after the game - Sucrose isn't scum. Trust the old lady on this one.

@ camn
Sorry, you have to bus again. We're lynching RM.

[Tammy]

No I'm with dgb on this one. Sucrose is town.

[TraceyLyn11]

Would either of you like to explain why?

DGB, that sounded dangerously close to a soft-claim. Soft-claims are scummy.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ Tracey
We'll make you see the light

after

the game. Was that not clear? AFTER means after.

I totally didn't soft-claim anything at all. Jeebus. ZERO claim from me.

@RachMarie
You're at L-2. Claim time.

[TraceyLyn11]

@DGB: So you're going to allow me to think she's scum until we either both die or game's over (or my read changes/Sucrose dies). Why wouldn't it be more beneficial to explain now?

[TraceyLyn11]

And why are you, DGB, asking for a claim from Rach when you're on her wagon? Only people off the wagon should be asking for a claim.

[DrippingGoofball]

Dayvig: TraceyLyn11

[DrippingGoofball]

And why are you, DGB, asking for a claim from Rach when you're on her wagon? Only people off the wagon should be asking for a claim.

Sorry, I make the rules.

[PiggyGal15]

eeehhhhh... Tracey, guess what? TL;DR
I take it Rach is scum now? Does that mean the last scum are {Rach, Apok, Tracey}? Because I think so (gawd, if I'm right I am going to join more large games cause I'm never anywhere near close with my reads... ever)

I think Sucrose's plan is actually pretty decent. We don't want the vig to accidentally kill one of the other PRs. I'd say we either lynch Rach and get Apok to claim and vig her, or Tracey to claim and vig her, but we should treat whoever is the vig target as if they're at L-1.

p-edit:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: RachMarie
Okay DGB, now we can hound her for a claim.

[Tammy]

Okay, made it through Tracey's wall if only because I'm a waller myself and hate it when people don't read what I write. Tracey's town. Her thoughts about people read town and she didnt feel the need to go into reasons why a couple of her town reads were town, sure they're not controversial town reads but still. If she's scum here she has a talent for not shallow reading which a lot of experienced scum don't have. Her reads read in depth in a way I really only expect from town.

[TraceyLyn11]

Dayvig: TraceyLyn11

amidoinitrite?

UNVOTE: