[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Cheery Dog]

Town C and town D would just scarfice themselves to get an insta town win?

[N]

Why wouldn't the town lovers just out their partners?

[CF Riot]

Lovers lose if they die. I suppose they're not really "town" lovers in that sense, but the idea is they only know their lover and have no control over night kills.

[Shamrock]

Well, in that case they're basically de facto mafia members. You might as well just call it 2 pairs of scum lovers.

[CF Riot]

The key difference is lack of information. The non-mafia lovers only know their partner's identity, not the identities of the opposite lover pair. They're quasi-traitors in a way. In order to fully benefit their cause they have to be able to read their partner's play and try to deduce who not to lynch.

[greygnarl]

So the mafia would have communication?

Also, town might need some sort of PR as that's almost 1/3 of the game as scum.

[BBmolla]

They're full out traitors then.

[CF Riot]

The top is how normal traitors work as I understand them. The bottom is what I'm proposing. The other difference in these two is in the top, the goons are the ones with the least information and have night talk to help them figure out who the traitors are together. In the bottom the traitor-lovers are the ones with the least information and have to rely on their own reads as they have no private communication whatsoever.

Balancing the rest of the game is open for debate. Number of town, PRs or not on both sides, these are all nebulous. I just want to know if there's anything inherently flawed about the roles I'm proposing and whether it's been done before.

[greygnarl]

Nothing flawed as long as the lovers aren't protown. I'd say 11 players and 1 PR.

[LlamaFluff]

But Soft What Light Through Yonder Window Breaks

1 Mafia
1 Traitor
5 VTs

-If a VT is lyched, then during the night phase they select a player. If the mafia does not kill during the night, targetted player will die.
-During the night, the Traitor targets who they believe the Mafia is.
-During the night, the Mafia can either kill someone or target whoever they think their partner is.
-If the Mafia and the Traitor both target each other and they both survive the night, they win the game.
-If Mafia dies, the game continues but is nightless.

Traitor claims D1, or even gets lynched D1, and its over 50% scum win rate. It may have some sort of potential (traitor knows mafia, mafia can kill or attempt to recruit) but scum argueably should make it not mafia immediately since they win more often then not doing such.

[greygnarl]

Maybe it's because it has no Mafia in it.
Anyways, Town wins if they lynch Lyncher, Lyncher wins if he lynches Town, Jester wins if he lynches himself.
No self-votes allowed and I think it will be playable?

Jester will never vote anyone else making it impossible for anyone else to win.

[Om of the Nom]

Has anyone suggested something like a mini Masons and Mafia to be run in the Micro queue?
I was thinking along the lines of 2 Masons, 2 Goons and 3 Vanilla Townies, same mechanics of the larger version. Would this work?

[Hoopla]

Has anyone suggested something like a mini Masons and Mafia to be run in the Micro queue?
I was thinking along the lines of 2 Masons, 2 Goons and 3 Vanilla Townies, same mechanics of the larger version. Would this work?

Could work - might even be a better version of that setup, given four player scumteams usually feature at least member gambling at the start of D1 for fun - you can't exactly do that when you're in a 2p scumteam.

[Om of the Nom]

Cool, shall I run it in the Micro Queue to test it?

[LlamaFluff]

So friends and enemies varients (one talked about already)

~~

Friends and Enemies and Acquantiences

3x Goons
3x Masons
7x Vanilla

Three randomly chosen to be in Neighborhood as well (Vanilla/Mafia/Mason Neighbor flip).

~~~~~
Enemies and Enemies

1x Mafia A 1 shot Vig
1x Mafia A Goon

1x Mafia B 1 shot Vig
1x Mafia B Goon

7x Vanilla

Mafia factional kill only can kill rival mafia
Instant action resolve night (daytalk enabled)
Vig kill can hit town or mafia (exists to stop scum about to lose from clearing enough for forced win)

[Timeater]

But Soft What Light Through Yonder Window Breaks

1 Mafia
1 Traitor
5 VTs

-If a VT is lyched, then during the night phase they select a player. If the mafia does not kill during the night, targetted player will die.
-During the night, the Traitor targets who they believe the Mafia is.
-During the night, the Mafia can either kill someone or target whoever they think their partner is.
-If the Mafia and the Traitor both target each other and they both survive the night, they win the game.
-If Mafia dies, the game continues but is nightless.

?

play this irl or in skype

[IceGuy]

orciM nepO aifaM esreveR

2 Mafia Goons
7 Vanilla Townies

Nightless.

Players start off in limbo and can be revived by a vote between the players in limbo.

A revived player flips and can keep talking in thread (if town) or in the scum QT (if scum).

Town wins when four townies have been revived. Scum wins when one scum has been revived.

However, town has a 1-shot factional ability it can activate by a vote. If the majority of townies vote for it as a revival has been achieved, the revival is "free": if it's on town, everything proceeds as usual, but if it's on scum, scum doesn't win.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Um, can scum vote on the 1 shot ability?

[IceGuy]

Yes.

[LlamaFluff]

orciM nepO aifaM esreveR

2 Mafia Goons
7 Vanilla Townies

Nightless.

By itself this is a 73% scum EV (7!-3!)/(9!-5!) = .277 town win chance.

However, town has a 1-shot factional ability it can activate by a vote. If the majority of townies vote for it as a revival has been achieved, the revival is "free": if it's on town, everything proceeds as usual, but if it's on scum, scum doesn't win.

So if they hit town it counts to the win condition or no?

Still probably scum sided as a whole, but if that revive still counts as a town revived its about a 65% scum win chance randomly. If it hits SCUM then its down to about 62% town win.

Think it swings too much and scum wincondition is too easy to achieve.

[IceGuy]

So if they hit town it counts to the win condition or no?

Yes.

Think it swings too much and scum wincondition is too easy to achieve.

This is a bit of a problem here. One scum is actually too little but two scum too much.

[Klick]

Make it easier for town to win, then.

[LlamaFluff]

If you required three revived town for the win, and made the 'voted revive' something that did not count to any wincon (alignment reveal only) it may work better but its still almost 60% scum win rate. Since scum have a 22% and increasing daily chance of winning.

The "revive" if it doesnt count can be used to just confirm someone who is a strong player but mistrusted or something to that extent.

If you only needed three good revives and there was the voted one that was 'safe' now its close to a coinflip, but im not sure a game that essentially is two lynches long is a good thing since just using the voted lynch on the strongest player D1 is going to be best as they are town where you are looking at a 53% town win chance or they are scum where it jumps to a 75% win chance.

Really if this was to work it probably needs to be expanded to three scum where two need to be revived.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Mad Inventors Mafia

Inventors

give

an ability to another player of their choice. They may be roleblocked. If an inventor is roleblocked, they still use a shot, and count as they have already use that invention. They will not be told that they were roleblocked. In addition to roleblocking an inventor, a roleblocking ability will block

all

of the abilities used by a player that night. Players who receive a power are not told who gave it to them.

Setup:

9p

(1)

3xshot Pro-scum Mafia Inventor

(1)

3xshot Anti-town Mafia Inventor

(3-4)

3xshot Investigative Inventors

(4-3)

3xshot Protective/Blocking Inventors

Pro-scum Inventor

- 1xshot Strongman, 1xNinja, 1xshot Framer

Anti-town Inventor

*- 1xshot Miller-power (for one night)**, 1xshot Voteless-power (for a day), 1xshot Beloved Princess-power (for a day)

Investigative Inventors

- 1xshot Cop, 1xshot Tracker, 1xshot Voyeur

Protective/Blocking Inventors

- 1xshot Doctor, 1xshot Roleblocker, 1xshot Jailkeeper

*Gives someone that negative ability. Ex, makes someone a miller for a night, etc
**Person is not told they have become a miller.

Players

may

both give an ability to someone and use an ability if they have been given one.
Mafia

may

use all an ability, a kill, and given an invention of a particular night.
Upon flip, players flip as Pro-scum, Anti-town, Investigative, or Protective/Blocking Inventors. It is not told upon the flip what that player was given or the abilities (s)he had upon death.
Players

may not

invent (give to another player) more than one of a particular ability. So their 3 shots, if they choose to use all three, must all be different.

I have a feeling this game is highly unbalanced

(The game can actually be partially broken with a mass claim on Day1, no? So maybe prohibit mass claim? Or maybe just make the game Night0 start?)

[CF Riot]

Is there a day delay between giving and receiving powers? Like, N1 player A gives player B an ability, N2 player B uses that ability? Do the abilities expire after a certain number of nights? If a player is given abilities by multiple people can that player use more than one in a given night?

It seems like mass claim and claim targets busts it for scum. D2 people who didn't receive a power claim and the people who were supposed to target them get lynched. Telling players they can't mass claim is generally not considered good modding. I like the idea though. I think you should just throw 3ish town inventors and 1 mafia inventor into a closed mini or large theme and have fun with it.