The Dresden Files - Early Days Mafia (Bastard) - Over

[Kimor]

I said that because he had a vote and 2 other people mentioned support of it. I was calling people out because I felt that it was very unfair to Klick, who played a very good game in my last game with him. I think it's terrible that we are treating players like this when they are trying to improve. Honestly, if you want players to improve their game, you can't pull crap like that. You have to give them an opportunity to learn from their mistakes.

The Pidgey vote and analysis should be separated from my feelings regarding the Klick issue, though. I did not mean to imply that Pidgey was voting Klick - I was instead pointing out a second thread of analysis.

[GreyICE]

Yeah I agree with Konowa, regarding Komor. Might be a little OMGUS from my part but his point of me is lulzworthy. "y u no genuine!"

Already caught 2 scum, doing well this game.

FLP: People that come in, leave what appears to be a serious vote, and leave without saying anything at all, weird me out.

You have no followup to my answer to you?

Really?

I have some for you then.

Vote: Pidgey

[pidgey]

What answer

[pidgey]

Exactly how is jason playing in favor of the town, greyICE?

Didn't say he was helping the town.

You need to read better, little Pidgey

Lol you mean this? What's there to answer? I guess I misread or something, sry?

[pidgey]

I kinda want to change to Kimor because he really is obviously playing to a scum win condition.

[Kimor]

I kinda want to change to Kimor because he is attacking me.

Fixed.

[pidgey]

You didnt really attacked me in your last 2 posts or even in your vote besides "questions look weird!!!"

So no, you are just scum hehehehehehe

[Shamrock]

ICENinja, why did you single Konowa out of all the people who voted you on page 1 without giving a reason? You mention that he was random voting first but I don't see what that has to do with anything, the other votes on you were clearly non-random. So why Konowa over, say, Zdenek or Sixty or GreyICE?

[Zdenek]

Let's see:
Schmugen's sassy comments to GreyICE are rubbing me the wrong way.

Pidgey's questioning of ICEninja, but not actually commenting about what he thinks of him is bad.

ICEninja's posting really makes me want him dead especially his over-reaction to two votes being on him and his soft-attack on GreyICE.

I will not be unvoting Konowa until he responds, as I have a legitimate line of reasoning for that vote.

What was your reasoning?

[jasonT1981]

I don't mind the jason wagon, but I won't be joining just yet..

Waiting on more people joining it, so you can justify your vote, eh? no commitment from you

I'd like to point out the Konowa had time to post about football today, but didn't address my vote on him, which certainly required minimal reading to reach.

So? I had time to post earlier in general discussion. The difference, talking about football in a thread in GD is quick and easy, you can make a few comments... where as in games you have to read everything and make thoughtful posts... weak push.

Vote greenknight

why?

ICENinja is looking less scummy right now, the confusion as to why people were actually wagoning him seems genuine enough. StefanB and Zdenek look pretty town to me right now too.

UNVOTE:

And to create discussion since there was a lot of voting but no discussion. So I did that in the hopes it would get people to talk and it did.

Because you /certainly/ helped out there, didn't you? The "I wanted more discussion but I want /other/ people to do it" attitude here is awful and scummy. I also don't particularly understand the train of thought in saying a) that there /had/ to be scum in the first two spots on his wagon despite the concession that he hadn't been playing like town (which was why he admitted he was an "easy mislynch, etc etc") b) that it would be pro-town play to get both of those players lynched one after the other.?

Well yes, it did create discussion... we had a player at L-2 with no discussion and quick votes, so I put him at L-1 knowing this would cause people to talk, and I thought that the ones who would come out quickly and push it would be scum, knowing they could capitalize on this and push a lynch based on it.

[kortul]

@CKD

- hmm, let's try again, i will ask differently. Klick voted ICEninja, gave post #16 as a reason, and you asked him about it. Klick answered "It was bad". That was 7th vote on ICEninja, did you really thought his vote wasn't serious? ("what was bad about it" is more correct question, but by the time you asked that, Klick already explained that in his post 47)

I like the legwork of Zdenek on a CKD meta. Interested to see whether CKD will have his examples of links.

It was RVS vote, I felt it was obvious. Perhaps context of the pregame topic would help explain this, I made a comment explaining how I've been called GreyICE quite a few times throughout the past year or two and I dreaded the game where I'd actually play with him, for this reason.

Ok, that explains it. I could see that the vote itself was random, but since your post was serious from the start, i interpreted the comment with the vote the same way, and didn't like it. But your explanation now is consistent with your words from pregame ("

I've been called by your name more times than I can count

"), so i feel somewhat better about it.

Those who played with ABR - is it his usual playing style?

@fatlikepig

- if you think that Jason "attitude here is awful and scummy", why didn't you vote him, just unvoted ICEninja?

The Klick votes were really, really bad. Really bad. From what I can tell, a lot of it was based on the fact that Kondi was a disliked player, and as a policy, I really feel that is a bad move.

Hmm,

Kimor

, can you elaborate? What votes were really bad? You commented on this afterwards, but avoided telling which votes were bad (all of them?).

GreyICE once again impressed me, he pays attention to the nuances. Don't want to spoil his game with comments.

Still waiting for the answer from

Jason

.

PEdit. Hmm, no answer?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: jasonT1981

[jasonT1981]

.

Still waiting for the answer from

Jason

.

PEdit. Hmm, no answer?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: jasonT1981

Can you repeat it, I thought I had answered what had been asked, I must have missed it.

[jasonT1981]

Nevermind, found it.

@Jason

- if you are town, i don't follow your thoughts. Why do you think that when you do something scummy (L-1 for Lols?), scum will "jump on you"? And we will look away and say "nah, it's ok"? That might make some sense if you strongly believe that ICEninja is scum (ie scum trying to save a buddy will push), but i don't see that from you posts at all. So can you explain again, and while you are at it, what

is

your read on ICEninja?

PEdit. Will read CKD post, but if the explanation isn't there, my questions stands.

While, no... I am not saying what I did was something you should look away from, what is more interesting is how people reacted... the people who came out pushing it I feel could be scum as this is the type of thing scum would try and push through.

I actually have a null to town read on IceNinja. There was a gross over-reaction to his opening post.

[kortul]

Jason, can you elaborate? Ie do you call a scummy reaction pushing you for putting ICEninja at L-1, or pushing you after you gave Lol reason? And what reaction would you call town, and what's the difference?

[pidgey]

Zdenek regarding iceninja i guess you could say that i found his stuff about reading the opening post and talking aout deadline lynches kind of fillerish and non important. I mean, it was dumb, but its not scummy per se and i think some people jumped on it because of how easy it was.

[pidgey]

I still find jason reasoning very scummy and the fact that he is saying he did somethign scummy as heck to fish for reactions without actually elaborating on why me and shmu "fell" for them is still ridiculous and scummy from my POV.

And the kondi mini gambit was also extremely forced and felt scummy.

[greenknight]

I actually have a null to town read on IceNinja. There was a gross over-reaction to his opening post.

Fine. So why would you need to put someone you don't actually want lynched at L-1 to spark discussion then? If you think scum would jump on your wagon, might there not be scum who had already jumped on Iceninja's wagon? If he's town he had clearly made himself an easy target.

[ICEninja]

ICENinja, why did you single Konowa out of all the people who voted you on page 1 without giving a reason? You mention that he was random voting first but I don't see what that has to do with anything, the other votes on you were clearly non-random. So why Konowa over, say, Zdenek or Sixty or GreyICE?

Because if you look at ALL the other votes, they're clearly either RVS (in Zdenek's case), random bandwagon votes (in almost everyone else's case), or votes on me with reasoning (as Klick seemed to try to do). Konowa's, however, didn't fall in to any of those categories. He had already placed a random vote, he obviously didn't vote me for bandwagon purposes (as someone already had a small one forming on them at the time, larger than my single vote), and there wasn't even a shred of indication that it was a serious vote.

Very anti-transparent, suspicious, and worthy of singling out.

Waiting on more people joining it, so you can justify your vote, eh? no commitment from you

I like the wagon on you, but I like my vote on Konowa even better.

For the record, I don't mind the wagon on me, if for the purpose of generating discussion. Reactions were given, reads were formed, and this advanced the game. As a player who is very intent on advancing the game to real discussion ASAP using different strategies, I don't mind that it happened. I don't find jason's L-1 vote on me bad in any way, it's the more recent things that have bothered me, specifically his hedging on WHY he put me to L-1. What I didn't like about my wagon was people who seemed to have a "yup I'm pretty sure this guy really is scum, let's have a lynch" mentality when it was based on almost nothing.

[Zdenek]

What was your line of reasoning for your Konowa vote?

[Zdenek]

Oh, I see, because there wasn't a shred of evidence to indicate that it was serious.

For the record, my vote was not random.

[Sixty]

Thread needs more puppy.

Every

thread needs more puppy.

We're kind of a mess right now though, so a little more patience would be etc.

[Konowa]

For the record, my vote was not random.

I was hoping to post before Zdenek, but I didn't read his vote as random. So, no I didn't say my vote was the first serious vote of the game, nor did I ever imply that it was the first serious vote.

[Konowa]

Also, in context one can, or should hopefully, tell that my vote was serious

[sword_of_omens]

Hey all! Back from V/LA and glad to see this one is up and running..
Sup Pidge! Glad to see you here back in MOI’s madness again …

This game should be frustratingly good…

Anyhoo…had to catch up on some work today, but tomorrow I should be on track for some decent posting..
Meanwhile, Looking through the six pages,

Didn’t really see ICEnin’s original post about deadlines as scummy or trying to be helpful..seemed more of a down to business type post than anything else..

I found CKD’s unvote strange…

also

unvote

random vote.

Not sure why he felt the need to reiterate that his original vote was random, considering it should have been a given....
almost as if he doesn’t want to seem associated with Shamrock…could be nothing, still think it’s weird, though…

Jason’s “L-1 for discussion” on ICENin seems like a back pedal…

I did it for LOLs.

And to create discussion since there was a lot of voting but no discussion. So I did that in the hopes it would get people to talk and it did. Also to see who jumped on it.

For BOTH Lol’s AND discussion AND a trap to catch scum? Really?

Vote: JasonT1981

So far liking Zdenek and Kort for town…

[ICEninja]

For the record, my vote was not random.

See, you can't pull this shit. You can't just go back and say that your first vote of the game, on page 1, with the words "easy mode on", based off voting a person who simply pointed out a combo of rules to be aware of along with throwing down a random vote, was serious.

I was hoping to post before Zdenek, but I didn't read his vote as random. So, no I didn't say my vote was the first serious vote of the game, nor did I ever imply that it was the first serious vote.

How can you NOT read his vote as random, considering the severe lack of anything at all what-so-ever to go off of that we had at the point in time?

Also, I didn't say you claimed yours was the first serious one, I just can't possible see any of the votes before yours as serious.

This is why you need to post a reason for voting someone, when you have a reason. Even on page 1. Now you can go back and claim whatever the hell suits your current purpose, which REALLY benefits a scum win condition.

The ONLY context that could even POSSIBLY indicate that your vote wasn't anything other than RVS was the fact that you had already laid down a previous vote. And this is exactly why I voted you in the first place, because that's a slippery move. Leaving your vote up to interpretation is scum scum scum.

It kind of boggles my mind that no one realizes how scummy this is, ESPECIALLY considering how he's played it off.

I agree with much of what was said in Sword's 148.