The Dresden Files - Early Days Mafia (Bastard) - Over

[Albert B. Rampage]

Need a summary post...or it will take me a long time to catch up.

[Konowa]

Oh and side note, I'm actually finding greenknight's lack of avatar at this point legitimately scummy. He's obviously not reading everything. Town 100% needs to read everything in order to find scum, but scum doesn't necessarily have to, especially if they're a low activity player.

Uhhhh?

[Konowa]

Kimor can wait.

unvote;
Vote: ICEninja

[ICEninja]

Good job reading what I said 2 4 posts ago.

[ICEninja]

Oops ignore the 2 ^

[Shmugen]

People are throwing cases at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Specifically which people/cases?

The case on Pidgey stands out to me, as do the policy votes on Klick.

Scum having daytalk is not a common power for scum to have.

Actually, in all the games I've played on MS, scum have had daytalk - possibly it's more common in theme games. At any rate, MoI gave scum daytalk in the last game he ran, which I played in. I would assume they have it in this game too.

and why greenknight doesn't have an avatar at this point literally boggles my mind. The only explanation I can think of is, as I previously said, he isn't reading the thread.

I am reading the thread, I just chose to ignore your demand that I get an avatar - I haven't had one since I joined this site and no one else has had a problem with it

I can't remember where I've seen you before, but I know I've heard others complain about your lack of avatar. If we could open this thread to the site on the whole, or if I wanted to do way too much research, I could find it. For now, consider this a seconding on you getting an avatar.

Jason, I'm on the fence about whether or not I believe you. Do me a favor and briefly describe your relationship with Harry Dresden for me.

I'm feeling a bit discouraged about this game. Usually by this point in time, my scum hunting and pressuring is leading town towards a lynch. In fact, I'm typically one of the biggest driving forces behind the day 1 lynch. However, this game it just seems off. A point that I felt so sure about is turning up with nothing.

I'm going to read the game over tomorrow, hopefully with a little less bias this time around. Hopefully I'll get something fresh.

For the time being I'm going to

unvote

, as I'm obviously getting nowhere with my Konowa line of reasoning.

I get where you're coming from with Konowa, ICE, but I find his irritation at your case on him slightly townish. Your drive is good, but I think you've hit the bottom of that D1 rabbithole.

I'd guess part of your discouragement comes from the lack of discussion from some players. I'm one of them, unfortunately, but I've done a little. Far more than Mr. Rampage or our power player hydra.

Unvote, Vote: GreyICE

I don't know a lot about your townplay, Grey, but this tunneling from a weak start seems familiar from our glory days. Tell me more about how the the player who's gotten the most heat and has turned all of it into discussion that benefits town is the scummiest.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 1.7 - As of post 231

Shmugen (1) - jasonT1981
GreyIce (2) - ICENinja, Shmugen
kortul (1) - Kimor
ICENinja (5) - Zdenek, Sixty, Klick, GreyICE, Konowa
Kimor (2) - StefanB, greenknight
Klick (1) - curiouskarmadog
greenknight (1) - Albert B. Rampage
jasonT1981 (4) - Shamrock, pidgey, kortul, sword_of_omens

Not Voting (1) - fatlikepig

The Current deadline is Wednesday, Novemeber 7 at 10:00 am EDT. Countdown is (expired on 2012-11-07 10:00:00).

With 18 active votes - 10 are required to lynch.

Activity Check - All currently good.

Mod Notes -

I will be LA this weekend starting at 4:45pm today for my usual weekend family duties. Vote-counts and prods may be slower than normal for this period.

[kortul]

I am busy at work and occupied by profession-related studying and translating in my free time. It will be this way for another two weeks or so. Also have a business trip ahead. Regarding this game that means that for the time being i will just follow it, ask/asnwer questions and do some simple analysis, but anything deeper will have to wait (though, analysis without at least some flips is always lacking anyway).

Jason claim is believable. We will have to worry about it if some PR worth questioning will die and Jason survives the following night.

@Jason

, still don't understand, though, why did you think that scum would be tempted to jump on you if ICEninja was null-town for you and scum didn't even got a claim from him yet? Maybe i am missing something.

@ICEninja

- regarding 210, read Grey in Dr. Who game, for example.

@Kimor

- if you are finding someone suspicious based on playing style, at least check the meta first. And you deflected the direct questions to you, so i will ask mine again.

Let's see who wanted to lynch Klick (or voted):
ICEninja, 38 - votes for the least reasoning behind the vote. Unvotes in 48.
jasonT1981, 51 - votes for being kondi, unvotes 15 minutes later saying he is town, so sounds like a jest or reaction test.
CKD, 95 - votes because he thinks that the reason behind Klick suspicions on CKD is a lie.

Meanwhile we have wagon on ICEninja, and a new one started on Jason. You come in, completely ignore both players and respective wagons, and criticize the votes on Klick, who never had more than 1 vote on him:

The Klick votes were really, really bad. Really bad.

From what I can tell,

a lot of it was based on the fact that Kondi was a disliked player, and as a policy

, I really feel that is a bad move. People improve, and voting somebody just because they did poorly in a game previously prevents that.

I said that because he had a vote and 2 other people mentioned support of it.

I was calling people out because I felt that it was very unfair to Klick, who played a very good game in my last game with him. I think it's terrible that we are treating players like this when they are trying to improve. Honestly, if you want players to improve their game, you can't pull crap like that. You have to give them an opportunity to learn from their mistakes.

Only Jason vote may be treated like a policy, and he unvoted 15 minutes later claiming that Klick is town. So, who are people talking about policy lynching him? And whose votes were really bad?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kimor

[Kimor]

I made a mistake because I hadn't read the game before I was prodded and was working quickly. I saw Jason's policy vote, and the other two votes and said something that was probably unfounded. Now, can we move on?

I don't find meta to be a particularly useful resource, and generally find it suspicious when people raise it as a defense.

[kortul]

I made a mistake because

I hadn't read the game before I was prodded

and was working quickly. I saw Jason's policy vote, and the other two votes and said something that was probably unfounded.

But you weren't prodded:

Mod Note - Kimor has not been prodded since he posted this before I got a chance to send the PM.

[Kimor]

I made a mistake because

I hadn't read the game before I was prodded

and was working quickly. I saw Jason's policy vote, and the other two votes and said something that was probably unfounded.

But you weren't prodded:

Mod Note - Kimor has not been prodded since he posted this before I got a chance to send the PM.

Yeah, I saw that I was going to be and I posted.

[kortul]

Hmm, sounds true. But that brings new question - why you were in a hurry instead of carefully reading, being prodded is not such a big deal?

I think i understand now your PoV on Klick/kondi votes - initial impression + lack of attention, which is bad but not scummy after all. But why did you include comments on pidgey and nothing on ICEninja/Jason and their wagons?

[Kimor]

I was in a hurry because I *hate* inactives in games and felt a bit embarassed about letting this one go for so long. This week, I had a rather massive Habeas petition come up at work, which sucked up a lot of the time I'd usually spend on Mafia. I also had to deal with the final steps of the process of actually becoming a lawyer, which means a mountain of paperwork and hours of meetings and phone calls.

I included comments on Pidgey because he stood out to me in my read through. I really didn't like his posts. I didn't mention the ICEninja or Jason issues because they didn't look that unusual to me at first blush. I saw that there had been a buncha votes there, but I didn't completely realize that ICEninja had gotten all the way to L-1 over literally nothing. Part of the problem is that I really, really, really hate random votes. I think that the whole concept is flawed and have explained this both on this account and my previous one. Therefore, I sort of skimmed the first 2 pages, knowing that they would be...less than helpful for an intiial post. It also did not stand out to me because, on this site, D1 random wagons aren't unusual and therefore aren't necessarily scummy - getting that far with it by page 2 is, however, scummy.

[GreyICE]

Wow in rereading the game I realized how horribly bad Grey's pushes on me have been. Take a look at how Zdenek, and to a lesser extent, Kortul scum hunted me. They scrutinized my posts, analyzed everything I said, and formed their opinions as a result. Even Klick, who more or less just mindlessly pounded on me for a couple pages, had some reasoning behind it. Zdenek and Kortul have both played thus far to a town win condition.

Grey's "scum hunting" of me almost literally boils down to "HURR HURR HE'S SCUM LYNCH HIM NOW!".

I would also like to REMIND everyone that in post 173, Grey made this outright false statement:

ICENinja's response to pressure is to switch his vote THREE MOTHERFUCKING TIMES.

I've only placed three votes so far, and the first one was placed before there were votes on me. This isn't even misrepresentation, it is outright lying.

two posts later I call him out on it. He fails to respond, and posts about other things.
later down the same page I call him out on it again. He

still

has not responded.

In his most recent post, Grey also made a potentially HUGE slip:

It's hard to scumhunt when you're trying to track down the people in your quicktopic and it's unsuccessful.

Scum having daytalk is not a common power for scum to have. The only reason I could possibly think of why you'd assume this is because you know for a fact that scum have daytalk and slipped.

There isn't a shred of town motivation to this guy attacking me.

I'm still pretty suspicious of Konowa. Both Pidgey and Shmugen are making me twitch a bit, but I'm having a hard time putting my finger on why. I'll look at them in more detail soon. Jason is either telling the truth about his claim or he is freaking brilliant. ABR and Sixty seriously need to start playing, Klick needs to get in here and make some new content, and why greenknight doesn't have an avatar at this point literally boggles my mind. The only explanation I can think of is, as I previously said, he isn't reading the thread.

I'm actually pretty confident right now that Grey is scum.

Vote GreyICE

.

Oh dear, I was going from memory. I remember you panicking and switching your vote a lot.

But you're not trying to lynch scum. You're trying to discredit my arguments. You seriously don't think you can get a wagon started on me. You just think your vote will somehow make it harder for me to wagon you.

It won't.

MORE ICENINJA VOTES NOW

[GreyICE]

@ICEninja

- regarding 210, read Grey in Dr. Who game, for example.

Kortul

Stop appeasing scum

Start voting for em

[kortul]

Kimor reasoning is strange, but consistent with his previous posts, which means that his entry was null tell after all.

UNVOTE:

Will try to find time tomorrow to reread the whole thread.

Grey, i have mixed feelings on ICEninja, but not convinced that he is scum. Will see if his actions and answers make sense in context.

[sword_of_omens]

Sorry, but this is still bothering me..
GreyICE, can you please explain what you meant by his statement?
it seems like a contradiction to me...

And now the people who speed voted him {Icenin} for being OBVIOUS SCUM are coming in to jump on the Jason wagon with the worst reasoning ever

also,

Then I believe your claim. Morty would would be town aligned, a neutral survivor at WORST, and you described him without being familiar with the series. It was a trick question, sparked by your not knowing what an ectomancer is.

don't mean to burst your bubble about Jason, but seeing as this is an MOI game, I would certainly think that scum have full fake-claims complete with fake role pm’s and abilities. Not sure how Jason’s ability would be provable either.

@MOD : I will be V/LA for the weekend starting at around 2:00 pm EST today

[StefanB]

About Jasons claim, it will buy him 2 days, since using it on night 1 would be stupid.
Trowing this away to be proven is not optimal play.

And I think that it would be much work to fake a whole discusion with a dead person. (While quoting is probably not allowed, paraphrasing can be easy to spot for people who know the player.

And yes from what I know about MoI exspect the unexspected, exspecially in a bastard game. (Doctor Who mafia for an example THE DOCTOR as SK!!!)

So trying to answer ABR next.

[StefanB]

Albert

Well, most important:
We had one L-1 waggon and one L-2 wagon (with a claim):

L-1:
ICENinja (8) - Zdenek, Konowa, Sixty, StefanB, kortul, GreyICE, Klick, fatlikepig, JasonT (PAGE 2)

L-2:

jasonT1981 (8) - Shmugen, Shamrock, pidgey, greenknight, kortul, sword_of_omens, fatlikepig, Konowa

Claim:

Jason T wrote:
I am Mortimer Lindquist, an Ectomancer (whatever that is lol)

I used to live a world of magic but no longer do as I left it a long time ago, however I can channel the dead who have not been dead for more than one day cycle...and choose to open a QT to the dead and talk to a dead person at for that one day. this is my active night action.. because I used to be involved in magic, I just have enough power left to do this once. this is called 'channeling'

I have a passive ability, a vote.

I can give you my opinion on several players but those are the most important thinks happening, imho.

[jasonT1981]

@Jason

, still don't understand, though, why did you think that scum would be tempted to jump on you if ICEninja was null-town for you and scum didn't even got a claim from him yet? Maybe i am missing something.

not sure what you mean by the ICEninja claim thing, will have to read back. As for your first part, I still maintain putting someone at L-1 like I did would attract scum who would push for an easy mislynch. though my logic has never been great

[ICEninja]

One of the reasons I believe Kimor is because of this post of Grey's made on page 2. Grey never voted for Klick, but made that comment, so I can see how someone in a hurry reads that comment, notices votes on Klick, looked at jason's vote but didn't pay attention to the unvote, and jump to the conclusion he made. However, Kimor's contribution to this game pretty much boils down to this post, and I need to see more scum hunting than defending in order to make a solid opinion of him. Let's hope his busy days free up soon.

Oh dear, I was going from memory. I remember you panicking and switching your vote a lot.

Oh alright, so on the 3rd time I call you out on this and throw down my vote, "oh whoopsie". Nope. You could have so easily said this the first time, so easily said this the second time, too late to pull that shit.

But you're not trying to lynch scum. You're trying to discredit my arguments.

I happen to be doing both, actually. I'm discrediting your arguments, showing how you're clearly not town, and trying to lynch you because of it. Looking at your actions, you aren't trying to lynch scum either. You just picked one player, repeatedly call him scummy, and push for a lynch. Sounds like an easy way for scum to get day 1 over with nice and quick, as they typically like to do.

Oh and good job not responding to the daytalk slip you made. Thanks for that, by the way, it's going to insure I'm sufficiently paranoid of scum playing gambits mid-day. It should make it easier to find your scum buddies.

don't mean to burst your bubble about Jason, but seeing as this is an MOI game, I would certainly think that scum have full fake-claims complete with fake role pm’s and abilities. Not sure how Jason’s ability would be provable either.

While I admit this is my first themed game, I've never once ever seen scum provided with fake-claim information. Also, Morty was on my list of characters that I'd be surprised to not see in this game, just from my knowledge of the books. Maybe if the claim was a more obscure character that I didn't expect to see in the lineup, sure, but it's a really believable claim.

Actually, this is something I should have asked on page 1. Who here is familiar with the first 3 books, who here is familiar with the entire series, and who here is playing without much/any knowledge of the series? This will become fairly important

.

[sword_of_omens]

@ICEnin , Final Fantasy 6 Mafia
MOI's last game..i've linked the page at the end for you.

[Shmugen]

Avid fan of the series here.

[sword_of_omens]

loved the television series (shortlived that it was)
and am currently reading the books...
I'm about a quarter of the way through the third book..

[GreyICE]

Oh dear, I was going from memory. I remember you panicking and switching your vote a lot.

Oh alright, so on the 3rd time I call you out on this and throw down my vote, "oh whoopsie". Nope. You could have so easily said this the first time, so easily said this the second time, too late to pull that shit.

You called me out. For what? Faking a role claim? Claiming an impossible power role result? Misclaiming flavor?

Nah. You called me out for saying you panicked and switched your vote three times when you actually panicked and switched your vote twice.

And this is scummy because...

Oh wait, it's not. You're not scumhunting. You're just trying to put me on the defensive. Better men than you have tried, kid~

Completely happy with my vote.