The Dresden Files - Early Days Mafia (Bastard) - Over

[Sixty]

Rrrf. It's actually L-7.

[greenknight]

Did a reread of Iceninja. My overall impression is that he seems completely out of his depth, as evidenced by

- his opening post where he worries about people messing up deadlines and confusing him with Greyice; seems he is used to playing in games of low overall skill level if people are regularly screwing up in this way. Iceninja's activity has been high so I can believe that he read the rules while waiting for the game to start.
- his assumption that votes on him such as Zdenek's were random
- the "scum daytalk slip" business (For the record, I'm assuming scum do have daytalk because they did in the last theme game MoI ran (Dr Who.))
- When questioned on any of this, Iceninja's response has consistently been along the lines of "does anyone else really not see it the same way as I do?" this last point makes me lean towards Iceninja being confused town rather than scum, as the overall impression is that he does believe what he is saying.

Greyice I'm not sure on yet. He played the same sort of game in first half of d1 in Dr Who. I remember calling him out because he wasn't giving much if any reason for calling people scum or town. My opinion is that he would open up in the same style this game no matter his alignment, because some of the same players are in this game.

I don't like CKD's move to Greyice based on the "daytalk slip", need to reread him tomorrow.

Regarding Jason's claim it doesn't prove his alignment in any way since this is a bastard game and scum could just randomly have been given the role. I know absolutely nothing about the flavour.

[ICEninja]

Flavorwise, if we're talking ONLY the first 3 books (this changes to an extent later on) I could very very easily see Morty being 3rd party. He hates Dresden and everything he stands for, and only helps because Dresden bullies him in to it. He isn't a bad guy though, and I would be upset to see the flavor distorted to that extent putting him as scum for the purpose of making the game more bastard.

Also, green you haven't said a whole lot about Kimor so far, yet that's where your vote is. Do you still feel he's the scummiest player in the game?

[Zdenek]

So your vote on me gets to count as scum hunting, and my comment in response doesn't?

I'm not measuring things about whether they count as scum hunting or not. To me, this:

Oh I see how it is, the person who makes the most intelligent post thus far gets the votes. You worried, scum, that I might be paying a little extra attention, and want to get rid of me right off the bat?

Looks like a bizarre over reaction to a few votes. You clearly disagree.

how any of it plays to a scum win condition

This is such a fucking crazy WIFOM argument, I don't even know what to say.

Please explain how I'm trying to rewrite history.

I don't see that post of yours, the over-reaction to two votes, as you calling anyone out, and I think you saying that is what you were doing is false.

Actually, this is something I should have asked on page 1. Who here is familiar with the first 3 books, who here is familiar with the entire series, and who here is playing without much/any knowledge of the series? This will become fairly important.

I have very limited knowledge of the series.

Greenkight, look at ICEninja's join date, and then vote him.

Where sixty's got their town read on ICEninja from, I'll never know.

CKD is great bet for ICEninja scum buddy.

V/LA until Monday/Tuesday

[ICEninja]

I don't see that post of yours, the over-reaction to two votes, as you calling anyone out, and I think you saying that is what you were doing is false.

I guess I'm just not sure what to say. I suppose I can see how you'd view it as an overreaction, but it wasn't.

Greenkight, look at ICEninja's join date, and then vote him.

Also note my win ratio, and the fact that I've never played a large OR themed game. I'm no newbie, but I'm out of my element.

[fatlikepig]

Also note my win ratio, and the fact that I've never played a large OR themed game. I'm no newbie, but I'm out of my element.

What specifically makes playing a large game something that puts you "out of your element"?

VOTE: ckd

Still mostly undecided about what I think of ICE, probably need to go back and read his posts in isolation. The jump on the whole QT scumslip does look very strange, though.

[fatlikepig]

Oh, also, ckd is probably scum independent of ICE's alignment.

So yeah.

[ICEninja]

What specifically makes playing a large game something that puts you "out of your element"?

I believe the largest game I've ever been in outside of hydra play was 13 players. Its easier to get to know everyone and have a solid read on everyone when there's that few players. I'm doing my best to keep track of more players than I ever have before. However, moreso than the game being large, I'm feeling out of my comfort zone at the theme game. Out of my 25 or so games, only one or two has given scum daytalk. Under normal circumstances, it is simply an incredibly rare power, rarer than a role blocker, role cop, or Godfather, which are the kind of powers I'm used to seeing scum have.

Don't count me out as I know my shit with how to play the game despite losing a lot, but I've never seen scum being spoon fed fake claims to make so I honestly have no idea what to think of jason right now.

All of that is independent of my scum read on Grey. Theme game, large game, whatever, this guy is playing so hard to scum win condition and at BEST is hurting town.

[Konowa]

Sixty disappoints. Scum read on ICEninja is more based on his greenknight comments (accusing him of not reading thread and calling him legit scummy for it then backing off and saying obv I don't find him scummy).

I don't get where flp thinks CKD alignment is independent of ICEninja.

[jasonT1981]

Wait, can someone explain in simple terms what the potential slip Grey did is?

It wasnt so much a slip as it was people making a big deal about nothing in regards to a scum QT comment that in no way goes any way to determining if GrayIce is scum or town

[fatlikepig]

I don't get where flp thinks CKD alignment is independent of ICEninja.

The wagon hop looks bad irrespective of whether or not he's defending a scumbuddy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote Kimor

[pidgey]

Wow, I again ask if anyone has played with ABR before because he is reminding me a lot of a scum I saw just a game ago.

Anyway, Ill try to reread today, finally done with all the bullshiiiit.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I played with 80% of the player list. I'm just very busy and going on gut to save time.

[greenknight]

I believe the largest game I've ever been in outside of hydra play was 13 players. Its easier to get to know everyone and have a solid read on everyone when there's that few players. I'm doing my best to keep track of more players than I ever have before. However, moreso than the game being large, I'm feeling out of my comfort zone at the theme game. Out of my 25 or so games, only one or two has given scum daytalk. Under normal circumstances, it is simply an incredibly rare power, rarer than a role blocker, role cop, or Godfather, which are the kind of powers I'm used to seeing scum have.

A quick search shows that Iceninja has played in one 17 player game and one theme game that was abandoned on day 2 and the rest seem to be 13p- mini normals or newbie games, so this statement seems reasonable.

CKD *has* played theme games before though and is a generally more experienced player, and therefore should know better than to jump on Greyice solely for the daytalk thing (while not commenting on Greyice's main activity in the thread so far, which has been his push on Iceninja) or assume that Jason couldn't have a fake claim. I think these stances in #255 point towards CKD as scum feeling like he had to come up with some reads in his catchup post.

vote: CKD

Still don't like Kimor, who after being questioned switched from "votes on Klick were really, really bad" to the equally vague "votes on Iceninja were really, really bad".

ABR, if you don't have time to play why do you sign up for games?

[curiouskarmadog]

Have only skimmed will update in 24. I see I now have a wagon? I have been playing a long time and have only seen scum day talk a couple times, to include once when I have had it as scum. Is this really a common thing? I thought it was kind of uncommon, so to see someone mention it really stood out.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 1.8 - As of post 291

Shmugen (1) - jasonT1981
GreyIce (3) - ICENinja, curiouskarmadog, Sixty
kortul (1) - Kimor
ICENinja (5) - Zdenek, Klick, GreyICE, Konowa, StefanB
Kimor (1) - Albert B. Rampage
curiouskarmadog (4) - Shamrock, Shmugen, fatlikepig, greenknight
jasonT1981 (2) - pidgey, sword_of_omens

Not Voting (1) - kortul

The Current deadline is Wednesday, Novemeber 7 at 10:00 am EDT. Countdown is (expired on 2012-11-07 10:00:00).

With 18 active votes - 10 are required to lynch.

Activity Check - N/A for this post.

Mod Notes -
Zdenek is V/LA til Tuesday Oct 30.

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR, if you don't have time to play why do you sign up for games?

I didn't know I would be busy.

[StefanB]

I give this more thought tomorrow.
For following Sixty blindly I am not convinced enought from their case nor their townness.
I have seen Albert play like this before, aliance unknown.
About my knowledge, afraid worse than I have thought. Have read them once before but start a reread of book 2 and 3 for the game.

[ICEninja]

A quick search shows that Iceninja has played in one 17 player game and one theme game that was abandoned on day 2 and the rest seem to be 13p- mini normals or newbie games, so this statement seems reasonable.

I do believe both of those games you mentioned were hydras as well (I believe one of them with MoI in fact). Not 100% sure, but I believe.

[GreyICE]

I don't get where flp thinks CKD alignment is independent of ICEninja.

The wagon hop looks bad irrespective of whether or not he's defending a scumbuddy.

This man is town, folks.

[fatlikepig]

I have been playing a long time and have only seen scum day talk a couple times, to include once when I have had it as scum. Is this really a common thing? I thought it was kind of uncommon, so to see someone mention it really stood out.

The fact that your first reaction was to say, "Something vaguely resembling a scumslip! Better join the wagon!" is bad regardless of whether or not you think daytalk is an uncommon thing.

[kortul]

Have like 10 minutes, will finally gather my thoughts. Did a reread on weekend. I was reading ICEninja isolated and in context, and the impression settled on him being a confused town in a new environment. He has a normal mix of defending and scumhunting, he comments on things that do not directly influence his position. His insistence for greenknight to get an avatar can bring only more suspicions towards him, that's not what i expect of scum under pressure. From his questioning of Jason claim it is obvious, that he has an understanding that fakeclaims exist, but is not aware that MoI gives scum safe names and builds fake claims on request. Same thing with that "daytalk slip". He can be a good actor, of course, but if he is, i think that with the amount of content he is posting the image he is faking will be inconsistent pretty soon.

GreyICE is playing almost the same way i remember him in Dr. Who, where he was town, though there are slight differences, like he abandoned his Pidgey line altogether, or made what i think is exaggerated statement about people speedvoting ICEninja for being OBVIOUS SCUM (who?). I will try to find a time during the week to meta check his play as a scum, to see if there are any similar differences.

@Sixty

- why do you think that GreyICE is scum?

CKD is strange. He played in 70+ games, and still attacks Grey for "daytalk slip"? For me it only indicates that he is bad player, and that tells nothing about his alignment. If he really believes in this "slip", it actually indicates that he is town. And if he is faking it, he is scum who needed to attack Grey, the question is why? The only thing that comes to mind is that Grey is pushing ICEninja wagon. If ICEninja is town, i don't see any motivation from CKD!scum - if ninja is lynched, CKD gets no towncred since he said nothing about the wagon and wasn't defending him, and starting a wagon on aggressive Grey is not a safe move. If ICEninja is scum, such a play makes sense from a bad player scum CKD. But that relies on ICEninja being scum, and his alignment is still unknown, and building cases on connections with unknown alignment is wrong.

Maybe i am missing something, so would like to hear those voting CKD based on his attack on Grey what is his scum motivation here?

@CKD

- so what is your read on ICEninja?

While rereading i realized that

Kimor

explanation is inconsistent after all.

I didn't mention the ICEninja or Jason issues because they didn't look that unusual to me at first blush. I saw that there had been a buncha votes there, but I didn't completely realize that ICEninja had gotten all the way to L-1 over literally nothing. Part of the problem is that I really, really, really hate random votes. I think that the whole concept is flawed and have explained this both on this account and my previous one. Therefore, I sort of skimmed the first 2 pages, knowing that they would be...less than helpful for an intiial post.

Kimor initially posted on page 5. Even if he skimmed first 2 pages, he noticed vote on Klick, but failed to notice

BOLDED VOTES

on ICEninja with comments (L-2) and (Lynch - 1)? And on page 4 there were

11

remarks about L-1.

The same continues in his later catchip post, only the theme is different. Now "the votes on ICEninja on D1 are really, really bad". He is

"somewhat concerned with Kortul, GreyICE, Klick, Jason and Fatlikepig"

, but never explains why GreyICE, or mentions him before or after. And

"Jason is concerning, because he put ICEninja at L-1 for absolutely no reason"

- at that point Jason himself was wagoned to L-2 and claimed already, and that wasn't mentioned at all. Not a single word as to what he thinks about the claim of the player who "is concerning", and who put that "really bad votes on Klick" before?

I think Kimor was lying about not realizing that ICEninja wagon went to L-1, and together with his silence regarding Jason wagon and claim at recent catchup post - that's just playing safe and avoiding stances on main events and wagons.

VOTE: Kimor

Regarding the theme, i have zero knowledge of the series (well, i know the name of the main hero).

[curiouskarmadog]

Updating from page 11

Why do you think my comment had anything to do with daytalk?

I was talking about him being scum, you dumb shit.

Wait a minute? Are you now denying that you were mentioning daytalk?

It's hard to scumhunt when you're trying to track down the people in your quicktopic and it's unsuccessful.

"I'm discouraged, that's why I'm less active!"

Really scumbag? Really?

then enlighten me, what did this mean? when you say "it is hard to scumhunt, when you are trying to track down the people in your QT" when the fuck is he trying to scumhunt? at night?

BULLSHIT..

After the deluge of votes and people thinking it was a common thing, I thought maybe I was wrong...but now you are back tracking on what you said. why back track?....explain this in your next post.

Also, why are people (and not just ICENinja) just instinctively believing Jason's claim? Is the idea of fakeclaims really new to you people?

interesting, so you think we should lynch him today anyway...not even try to see if it is true. it is not like he is claiming a doc that we cant really verify. there is potential here to maybe get some info. I dont think he could fake this. but I want to see. I think this is a plausible claim. I not sure if the role has anything to do with alignment, but if it is town, it could be useful. Sham, you don’t think the role could be useful?

@CKD

- so what is your read on ICEninja?

Both you and grey have asked me my opinions of Ninja

Just went back and read him in iso. I don’t see anything scummy. Paranoid maybe?..the only ACTUAL possible scummy thing that is in reference to ninja is the fact he was the first person to bring up the day talk thing and then voted Grey. But I am the one that is getting the votes for it. If ninja does ever flip scum, the people that are voting me over the person you actually did it first (without even mentioning that ninja did it) should be looked at. Ninja was attacking grey before this post (with the vote), but no one is actually mentioning the fact that ninja called him out first.. This being said, I don’t see a strong case on him and I am neutral on him (leaning town)

Would someone please give me a bullet point on why ninja is scum. I really don’t see a case. I saw a wagon develop on him quickly with little to know reason. I know it is day one, but it seemed like a rush job. The wagon feels scum driven. The Jason wagon I get, but want to test the role claim first.

- - - -

@town, lets say this was a common thing (day scum chat) and grey wasn’t slipping. If it is not a big deal, why is he now trying to backtrack about saying it? he was obviously talking about daytalk. if you dont think the daytalk slip(?) what are your thoughts on his backtrack?...(this is going toward those voting me) do you think this is a back track from grey? or is this back track not scummy too?

@ Jason, when do you select the person to go into the QT (anytime, day, night)? is this a constant QT or only during the night?

[jasonT1981]

ok the person has to have died obv... and I have only one full day cycle to use it.. if the person is dead for more than one day, i can't call on them.

It lasts only a day.

It is, as far as I know a constant until the next phase starts, IE From day 2 - day 3 and then I lose it.

I believe I can use it at any time, but would probably to be best to use at the start of a day phase and then go from there.