The Dresden Files - Early Days Mafia (Bastard) - Over

[Shmugen]

It's the GreyICE way to ignore people who he thinks are scum.

[jasonT1981]

It's the GreyICE way to ignore people who he thinks are scum.

will address outstanding questions when . get on computer i am on phone. but this is a lie if g.ice thinks you are scum he will scream it from roof tops

[Shmugen]

He ignores what they say. He doesn't ignore his reads.

[greenknight]

CKD is strange. He played in 70+ games, and still attacks Grey for "daytalk slip"? For me it only indicates that he is bad player, and that tells nothing about his alignment. If he really believes in this "slip", it actually indicates that he is town. And if he is faking it, he is scum who needed to attack Grey, the question is why? The only thing that comes to mind is that Grey is pushing ICEninja wagon. If ICEninja is town, i don't see any motivation from CKD!scum - if ninja is lynched, CKD gets no towncred since he said nothing about the wagon and wasn't defending him, and starting a wagon on aggressive Grey is not a safe move. If ICEninja is scum, such a play makes sense from a bad player scum CKD. But that relies on ICEninja being scum, and his alignment is still unknown, and building cases on connections with unknown alignment is wrong.

Maybe i am missing something, so would like to hear those voting CKD based on his attack on Grey what is his scum motivation here?

You're overanalyzing this. The primary motivation for CKD-scum doesn't necessarily have to be to defend Iceninja - he could simply have been attacking Greyice because he felt he needed to look like he was scum hunting somewhere in his catchup post.

[Sixty]

Sixty disappoints. Scum read on ICEninja is more based on his greenknight comments (accusing him of not reading thread and calling him legit scummy for it then backing off and saying obv I don't find him scummy).

We're willing to buy that this is Town saying stupid things.

Unless everyone else is looking at that, we're honestly not sure how people are reading ICEninja as scum. We're also not sure how people think that GreyICE

only

yells and makes riduckulously exaggerated claims as Town. And frankly, that attempt to hop onto ckd for the "unvote random vote" is an overstep beyond plausible scumhunting and into puppy litter. Never mind that he's spinning everything ICEninja does into scumthing instead of etc.

Tierce/Vi: Why is GreyIce scum again? Any other reads???

Wait, so you're going to cast

all of your votes

as shameless wagon hops on the flavor of the day (literally! every last one of them is on someone who had just been called out within three previous posts), post THIS gem of a leading question--

Jason: No reason for the L-1, do you do that just for fun or was that to rescue, IceNinja/bus in a gamble?
"twich"

--and then call us out for not posting anything immediately after Shmu does?

Well, as it turns out, we DO have another read for you
A memo for your future scum games - don't poke sleeping puppies.

Bullshit. I will avatar bet with anyone who wants to that at least one of you fucks is scum, and if you both flip scum my surprise level would be a fat fucking zero.

Don't say this, dahling.

[GreyICE]

In post 194 I made this comment:

I'm feeling a bit discouraged about this game. Usually by this point in time, my scum hunting and pressuring is leading town towards a lynch. In fact, I'm typically one of the biggest driving forces behind the day 1 lynch. However, this game it just seems off. A point that I felt so sure about is turning up with nothing.

I'm going to read the game over tomorrow, hopefully with a little less bias this time around. Hopefully I'll get something fresh.

Then in post 200 you made this comment:

It's hard to scumhunt when you're trying to track down the people in your quicktopic and it's unsuccessful.

"I'm discouraged, that's why I'm less active!"

Really scumbag? Really?

Since you're obviously too slow to understand the interaction we have (I don't buy that shit, I don't believe anyone can really be THAT dumb), I got discouraged and promised to reread the game next day. You come back and make the comment that I can't seem to scum hunt without help from people in my quick topic.

So, playing along with you really not understanding the implications of this, you

very very clearly

implied that I was currently asking for help in my quick topic and not receiving it, and would therefore be inactive until the next day.

Actually you dumb fuck, what I said was that you were having problems on HUNTING the people in your quicktopic.

I don't think there's a rats chance odds on someone as pigheaded, stubborn, and brick stupid as you ever taking ADVICE from anyone on the planet. Dear god. If there is daytalk your scumbuddies are probably screaming at you for your dickwad stupidity... wait, one of them came up with this "brilliant" scumslip.

No, you waste of meat, it's hard to scumhunt YOUR MOTHERFUCKING SCUMBUDDIES. That's the basis of most fucking scumhunting - finding places where people's interactions seem fake.


ALL YOUR FUCKING INTERACTIONS SEEM FAKE

You've used this "scumslip" as an excuse to tunnel on me while doing jackshit.

You fucking stupid herpaderps are both getting lynched, and I will laugh as you and CKD die and take your stupid scumteam's chances of winning with you.

[GreyICE]

StefanB 314 wrote:
Tierce/Vi: Why is GreyIce scum again? Any other reads???
Wait, so you're going to cast all of your votes as shameless wagon hops on the flavor of the day (literally! every last one of them is on someone who had just been called out within three previous posts), post THIS gem of a leading question--
StefanB 75 wrote:
Jason: No reason for the L-1, do you do that just for fun or was that to rescue, IceNinja/bus in a gamble?
"twich"
--and then call us out for not posting anything immediately after Shmu does?

Well, as it turns out, we DO have another read for you
A memo for your future scum games - don't poke sleeping puppies.

Vi

This does not feel like you're town

Vi

I'm worried

Normally you admit when you're playing bad

And you're playing pretty bad

So why the sudden overdefensiveness?

[Sixty]

Woof? What gave away that it was me? It was the "dahling", wasn't it. I have to get my idiosyncrasies from somewhere, even if it is Zsa Zsa.

Anyway, we can talk when
1) any post from us is considered "sudden", especially after a three-day absence
2) answering a question quite honestly about things that don't really have much to do with us is "overdefensiveness"
3) you draw a Town Role PM, which would lead you to actually check or maybe even read what we posted

It could be a while though, mostly because of that last one.

[ICEninja]

Actually you dumb fuck, what I said was that you were having problems on HUNTING the people in your quicktopic.

Well shit, you could have said that 14 posts ago, and not been literally the biggest asshole I've seen in 20 something games here. I still say it looks like you meant I was looking for help from people in my QT, considering the context of me saying I'd post the following day.

My other points on you stand. You're still scum, especially considering how easily you could have made yourself clear there.

You don't even have an excuse to tunnel on me while doing jack shit, by the way. You're still scum.

And since I've actually turned in to an asshole while responding to you, I will refrain from any further comment regarding, or responding to you, unless it actually contains content. Because you've pretty much not actually given me any content to work with, and I'm tired of pointing out to everyone that your argument on me isn't a far cry from a monkey jumping around shouting "HE'S SCUM LYNCH LYNCH LUNCH", which hasn't actually resulted in me making any advances in proving your scumminess.

I'll be looking at other players in further depth now that I'll not be wasting my time talking to someone who is borderline incoherent.

[GreyICE]

Woof? What gave away that it was me? It was the "dahling", wasn't it. I have to get my idiosyncrasies from somewhere, even if it is Zsa Zsa.

Anyway, we can talk when
1) any post from us is considered "sudden", especially after a three-day absence
2) answering a question quite honestly about things that don't really have much to do with us is "overdefensiveness"
3) you draw a Town Role PM, which would lead you to actually check or maybe even read what we posted

It could be a while though, mostly because of that last one.

Ooh, stealing my lines and using them against me. Don't think I don't see that.

Sadly you just do not have the style and

je ne sais quoi

to pull it off dahling~

I'm as town as it gets

[GreyICE]

Actually you dumb fuck, what I said was that you were having problems on HUNTING the people in your quicktopic.

Well shit, you could have said that 14 posts ago, and not been literally the biggest asshole I've seen in 20 something games here. I still say it looks like you meant I was looking for help from people in my QT, considering the context of me saying I'd post the following day.

My other points on you stand. You're still scum, especially considering how easily you could have made yourself clear there.

You don't even have an excuse to tunnel on me while doing jack shit, by the way. You're still scum.

And since I've actually turned in to an asshole while responding to you, I will refrain from any further comment regarding, or responding to you, unless it actually contains content. Because you've pretty much not actually given me any content to work with, and I'm tired of pointing out to everyone that your argument on me isn't a far cry from a monkey jumping around shouting "HE'S SCUM LYNCH LYNCH LUNCH", which hasn't actually resulted in me making any advances in proving your scumminess.

I'll be looking at other players in further depth now that I'll not be wasting my time talking to someone who is borderline incoherent.

Oh no, I didn't make myself clear when the point was unclear to exactly TWO PEOPLE IN THE GAME. Even Vi didn't want to touch that one with a 10' pole.

But I'm still scum because of your other point which... tell me again? You seemed to be doing the scumslip dance with your partner in slime CKD.

[sword_of_omens]

the problem i have with Jason is his inconsistencies...

again look at his initial response:

I did it for LOLs.

And to create discussion since there was a lot of voting but no discussion. So I did that in the hopes it would get people to talk and it did. Also to see who jumped on it.

So…He did it for the LOL’s
Empty space
Empty Space
And to create discussion and lay a trap.

Then he clarifies his statement:

OK, I will explain what I meant again, and try and make sense...

the LOLS bit was more I found the reaction by some funny.

But I still maintain that putting someone at L-1 with little reasoning would be the thing scum would jump at, thinking it can be pushed and an easy lynch can be made of it....

Now he clarifies that the LOL part of it was after the fact..he found reactions funny...So he couldn’t have done it for the Lol’s ...this just reinforces that he’s taking whatever excuse he can get.

He then says that his trap has caught Pidgey and Shamrock, because they took the bait. So he votes Shamrock and says Pidgey can die tomorrow.

Ooops he meant Pidgey and Shmu,

so he votes Shmu…

He then claims he has a

Night ability

but forgets, and states that he thinks he can use it any time, preferably at start of day. I asked him if it was a 1-shot was because I was curious enough to see if he’d forgotten that he had already claimed it.

This early in the game and it seems as if he isn’t even really paying attention to half of it…why not?

EVERY SINGLE PLAYER WHO ISN'T VOTING FOR GREYICE RIGHT NOW, PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION:
Why would town GreyICE, who apparently really has assumed scum had day talk all this time, try so hard for so long to ignore this, when he's (more or less) responded to all the other points I've made against him? Is innocent town, who made a comment about an explainable assumption he made, going to do this? Or is scum, who got caught slipping up, going to do this?

I read it as more of a backhanded response and mainly to just to be a jerk, not as a scumslip…


Also, not liking CKD much this game...
not sure how he'd miss Jason's 1-shot claim, considering he said he believed the claim..

[Sixty]

We interrupt this broadcast to put a stop to those remaining jason votes.

Several things:

1) The role does not make sense as scum; it is a Town role that has a goal of extracting information from the dead;
2) It is trackable. If he ever gets tracked to/watched at someone alive, jason is dead; it is one of the major reasons scum don't often claim coroner;
3) It is very much a role that MoI would put in this game. Not just because of the flavor, but because of this section of MoI meta:

The Charlie the Mafia Scumbag Show

Brought to you by your Host – Magnaofillusion

This show is brought to you in two acts. Each is important. Pay close attention to them.

Act 1 – The Voices of the Dead.

Very often Nightkills are paid too little heed in this game. Tierce once spoke for the Dead in a way the fucked Scum over hard. I’m going to honor her by doing that again.

Let’s look at the players who each Dead Townie suspected on the Day before they crocked.

[...]

This "Voices of the Dead" thing is about Destiny Mafia. A certain mechanic allowed the dead Townies to make a single post on a specific Day. This dead-post included the results the dead PRs had, and dead-Tierce's reads nailed two scum.

This is very obviously a role MoI would put in, since he was aware of the effects of a similar mechanic in Destiny Mafia; it is much less likely to be a fakeclaim. In addition, we believe that jason's minor mistakes about his role do not mean anything; he is no less likely to mess up a Town role than he is a full-fledged fakeclaim.


It is getting to be a distraction. Stop voting jason and start voting actual scum. We suggest beginning with GreyICE. Follow our nose, etc.

[Zdenek]

I don't have time to actually think about things at the moment, but
1. Jason is more town because scum probably doesn't risk fucking up their claim like that. Sure it's not 100%, but it's solid.
2. The "slip" case on GreyICE is fucking stupid, and this is coming from someone who generally speaking likes slip-cases. The GreyICE-is-backtracking-from-thinking-there-is-day-talk case or whatever that case is is even stupider. I think GreyICE was making an obnoxious accusation, and that's all.
3.

A quick search shows that Iceninja has played in one 17 player game and one theme game that was abandoned on day 2 and the rest seem to be 13p- mini normals or newbie games, so this statement seems reasonable.

Did you expect to discover that he was lying about this? Do you think this has anything to do with his alignment?
4. ICEninja's claim that he's out of his element is basically him playing the join date 2009 newbie card.
5. Kimor ignoring the wagons is an issue.

[greenknight]

3.

A quick search shows that Iceninja has played in one 17 player game and one theme game that was abandoned on day 2 and the rest seem to be 13p- mini normals or newbie games, so this statement seems reasonable.

Did you expect to discover that he was lying about this? Do you think this has anything to do with his alignment?
4. ICEninja's claim that he's out of his element is basically him playing the join date 2009 newbie card.

3) If someone makes a meta claim like that it's worth checking to see if they're misrepresenting their own meta.

4) Actually I did notice that Iceninja only started saying he was out of his depth after I posted my evaluation of him saying that. Which lost him a couple of town points again in my book, but not enough to actually vote him for it. Because I can see Iceninja as town also being confused as to why people have dismissed/ignored a bunch of his arguments. I don't think his join date is the relevant point, rather the question is does the theme game environment differ enough from that of "normal" games to explain Iceninja's actions. Now I haven't played any normal games myself to be able to give an authoritative statement on that, but it seems plausible to me.

[Kimor]

Catching up, sorry, I had the weekend from hell...I won't burden the thread with details.

Content incoming.

[Kimor]

Alright.

#1) I have said my piece regarding the Klick confusion. If you choose to vote for me, fine, but there is nothing else that I can say to address it.

#2) I really don't like this slip case. It's pretty terrible. I don't see how it indicates his alignment whatsoever, and I feel that the implication is something that would be general knowledge to most players.

#3) Kortul's renewed attack on me looks very weak. He's attacking someone with lesser activity for something that is clearly not alignment-based. As scum, what benefit would I have from misreading the game? Why would I be more likely to do it as scum or not? Note, this is not WIFOM because I am not saying that I am *town* because of it - I am saying that it is a null tell at best, and is largely a product of the fact that I have been busy. However, if you notice, he *only* pipes in with that, without really giving much substance other than, "I doubt that anybody could miss that."

Well, I did.

Imagine that.

Why does it make me scum?

Overall, I am happy with my vote. My only hesitation is that, if my case is correct, I would have expected Kortul to be on the GreyICE wagon, and he is not.

[Kimor]

Oh, something else I forgot to mention in my above post in re: Jason's claim.

This is a bastard mod game. Adjust your expectations for present roles accordingly.

[Konowa]

60 has half of their statement right regarding me.
Still think pushes on jason are bad, sword continuing this bumps up initial gut read to more than that.
Really don't know if iceicebaby is towntown or townscum. I do think there are people skating by because of the screamo match though.

[fatlikepig]

sword_of_omens is scummy based on #336. He's largely dodged the whole GreyICE/ICENinja/ckd issue (his reasoning for ckd-scum is interesting, actually: it's based on him missing Jason's claim that he was 1-shot, not on any of the /actually scummy/ stuff which would entail him engaging with the game on a meaningful level). His last two reasons for Jason-scum aren't even /scumtells/:

He then says that his trap has caught Pidgey and Shamrock, because they took the bait. So he votes Shamrock and says Pidgey can die tomorrow. Ooops he meant Pidgey and Shmu, so he votes Shmu…

He then claims he has a Night ability but forgets, and states that he thinks he can use it any time, preferably at start of day. I asked him if it was a 1-shot was because I was curious enough to see if he’d forgotten that he had already claimed it.

ICENinja's case on GreyICE is still bad, considering that #268 and #308 are consistent with Grey's ultimate explanation of the "slip", I'm inclined to believe that that was his meaning all along.

Hey Vi/Tierce, do you guys intend on signing your posts at all? Or is one person sort of just acting as the mouthpiece for the both of you?

[fatlikepig]

Oh, also:

V/LA til 1st November

Access is going to be sporadic for the next week or so due to exams and stuff.

[kortul]

@greenknight - hmm, i see, it can be a motivation, if he is bad player. The question is, how to distinguish stupid town who believes from stupid scum who fakes. Will think about it.

Meanwhile, we have yet another catchup post from

Kimor

, that just reinforces my suspicions.

#3) Kortul's renewed attack on me looks very weak. He's attacking someone with lesser activity for something that is clearly not alignment-based. As scum, what benefit would I have from

misreading the game

? Why would I be more likely to do it as scum or not?

Nice try. I said nothing about misreading. My points were about him

lying and avoiding stances

. How else do you call failure to mention a wagon and a claim on someone you suspect, after the words

"I'm doing a reread of the game"

?

This catchup post goes even farther. This time we have

"I really don't like this slip case. It's pretty terrible."

And defending against something he wasn't accused of. That's it. No thoughts on ICEninja, CKD, GreyICE? Still nothing about Jason claim?

And

Kimor

, i have a question for you.

Overall, I am happy with my vote. My only hesitation is that, if my case is correct, I would have expected Kortul to be on the GreyICE wagon, and he is not.

But you said before that you are

"concerned with Kortul, GreyICE, ..."

(with lots of words about me and nothing about Grey), so why did you expect me to be on the GreyICE wagon?

[Sixty]

60 has half of their statement right regarding me.

All of it is correct regarding ICEninja.

[Sixty]

Hey Vi/Tierce, do you guys intend on signing your posts at all? Or is one person sort of just acting as the mouthpiece for the both of you?

Neither, as should be evident by now. We run our posts through each other. If you want examples of how we work (awesomely) together, check our finished games.
Why is this more worthy of attention than the points we have raised so far, which you have by and large ignored?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 1.9 - As of post 349

Shmugen (1) - jasonT1981
GreyIce (3) - ICENinja, curiouskarmadog, Sixty
kortul (1) - Kimor
ICENinja (3) - Zdenek, Klick, GreyICE
Kimor (4) - Albert B. Rampage, kortul, Konowa, StefanB
curiouskarmadog (4) - Shamrock, Shmugen, fatlikepig, greenknight
jasonT1981 (2) - pidgey, sword_of_omens

The Current deadline is Wednesday, Novemeber 7 at 10:00 am EDT. Countdown is (expired on 2012-11-07 10:00:00).

With 18 active votes - 10 are required to lynch.

Activity Check -
pidgey is being prodded.

Mod Notes -
fatlikepig is V/LA til Nov 1st.
Zdenek has 24 hours to post as his V/LA has ended